Justice Served!

[Smallc]

I don't care about those treaties. I know what's right and what's wrong.

How arrogant of you to assume. You can't take your individual morality and apply it to society. You can't simply decide someone is bad or good on your own. I shudder to think of a society where you were responsible for law and order.

[wulf42]

Let me get out my violin and play it for you while you shed tears for the enemy.

READ THE SUMMARY - Him and his entire family are terrorists.

So true!.........Canada has become a terrorist haven because of our so called "sense of fair play" we are at war with these people yet so many on here defend these animals.....we will surely lose the war on terror if we concern ourselves with Terrorist's rights! Omar and his family are the enemy.

Omar should be shot by the U.S. military and Canada should give Omar's family the boot!.Cased closed.

Edited November 14, 2009 by wulf42

[wulf42]

and was the U.S. just "being diplomatic" when actual U.S./Canadian discussions began to repatriate Khadr... relative to the Canadian Federal Court ruling? As inferred from the repatriation discussions, if the U.S. didn't say "NO" relative to the Canadian Federal Court ruling, why would they say "NO" relative to a Canadian Supreme Court ruling that upholds the Federal Court ruling? In light of several U.S. transfers of detainees to their native countries, you're anticipating that wouldn't be forthcoming in the Khadr case if a formal request came from Canada? In your zealous pursuit, you've jumped to a self-serving outcome (ahead of a Supreme Court ruling), one that fits the personal agenda you've demonstrated numerous times across this forum.

Lol....the U.S. could careless what we think! you just don t get that! Omar killed their soldiers and he is going to pay for that in America with his life and that is just and fair...this bag of monkey dung is no longer our concern, Canada has far more important issues than Omar..hopefully this decision today will be the end of it! He is where he belongs and the right people are going to put him on trial! What are you afraid of?? the Americans will give him a fair trial....or are you like rest on here part of the Anti USA movement?

Edited November 14, 2009 by wulf42

[PocketRocket]

What was a Canadian-born guy doing living with and fighting for our terrorist enemies? Case closed, if you ask me. He's probably guilty of many more crimes that we'll never know about.

Well, he was living there, yes. Was he fighting??? That remains to be determined. As for WHY he was living there, he was brought there by his parents. A kid in his early teens hardly has a choice in the matter of where his family is going to live.

As for him being guilty of "many more crimes", you have high expectations of such a young kid.

As for this being a "case closed", well, that remains to be seen.

"Innocent until proven guilty" doesn't mean I put my head in the sand and ignore the facts. I'll repeat myself - perhaps you think we're all jumping the gun when claiming that Major Hasan is guilty, although he hasn't yet been convicted. What extremists we are! Jumping to conclusions! In your fantasy world, nobody can have an informed and accurate perspective of the truth until a jury has decided on the case. Absurd.

There is a difference here. Major Hassan was seen by many witnesses carrying out his act. He has also admitted carrying out the act. Kadr has maintained his innocence, and the evidence against him, if so certain, would likely have resulted in a trial long ago.

I already posted this but seeing as you either ignored it or missed it......

military officials had originally reported that another of the surviving militants had thrown the grenade just before being killed, and later rewrote their report to implicate Khadr instead.

Why did they originally claim it was someone else???

Why did they, after the fact, change their report to implicate Kadr??? Is it because the guy they originally implicated was killed??? Were they simply looking for someone else to hang this on??? Was it a case of "Well, he's here, he must be guilty of SOMETHING. Let's place the blame in him". Wouldn't be the first time. Consider the 80-year old blind man that needs two canes to walk who has been held in Gitmo for years. I'm sure HE was a threat.

Why is it that no one seems to think that it would be difficult to toss a grenade when you're buried in rubble, or did you not read that par either???

Was his father a terrorist??? Evidence suggests he was, but that does not answer the previous questions I've posed here.

There were even suggestions that the soldier supposedly killed by the grenade supposedly thrown by Kadr may have actually been killed by friendly fire. Of course we can't be believing THAT now, after all, no one has ever been killed by friendly fire from US troops before

It would be interesting to see what an autopsy would turn up.

There is FAR more to this case than meets the eye, and this jackal-like baying for the boy's blood does nothing to help find the truth.

[PocketRocket]

I started digging a bit deeper as I've spent some, but not much, time looking into this affair. Here's another link that gives the timeline of the attack by US troops, and how it supposedly went down....

http://www.thestar.com/specialsections/omarkhadr/article/717885--omar-khadr-innocent-in-death-of-u-s-soldier

1. U.S. Special Forces carry out a ground and aerial assault of a suspected Al Qaeda compound. The occupants are armed.

2. A small group of soldiers enter the compound, believing the occupants are dead. Then firing begins and a grenade is thrown, fatally wounding U.S. Sgt. Christopher Speer.

3. A U.S. soldier, identified as OC-1, reportedly ran toward the firing and saw an adult male lying on his side, moving, with an AK-47 beside him. OC-1 shoots him in the head, killing him.

4. A soldier identified as Soldier #2 walks into the alcove where the body is lying and feels the ground shift beneath his feet.

5. When the debris is pulled back they find Omar Khadr lying face down, semi-conscious.

So the terrorist compound had already been attacked, presumably bombed as part of the attack came from the air. During this time, Khadr seems to have been already lying face down and half-buried in the rubble of a collapsed building, with two gunshot wounds in his back.

Interesting........

Layne Morris, one of the soldiers injured in the 2002 firefight, is frustrated at the time it has taken to decide Khadr's fate. In a telephone interview from Utah on Wednesday, he said he doesn't personally need a trial – "I've had closure, if that's what you can call it." But he added he would be disappointed if Khadr isn't held accountable for Speer's death.

.....this particular troop wants to see Khadr take the fall for the deed. He doesn't, however, seem to concerned over whether or not the lad was actually guilty as evidenced by this.....

"Whether he pulled the trigger or threw the grenade or not, I think he was part of it.

"I think he was part of it"

So many people do, but again, a 15-yr old kid goes where his parents tell him to go.

He was in the wrong place at the wrong time, no question.

The question is.....Did he throw the grenade???

Edited November 14, 2009 by PocketRocket

[KeyStone]

Well, one thing that we all seem to agree on is that Khadr should get a trial, rather than be kept in limbo.

I recommend he shave off the terrorist beard before setting foot in the courtroom.

As for guilt or innocence, he was defending a country from invaders. Perhaps he was on the wrong side, but that does not make him a murderer, that makes him an enemy combatant, which is very different.

I would not be surprised if he is released for time served. Of course, Harper will do everything possible to avoid bringing him back to Canada.

[Gabriel]

Well, he was living there, yes. Was he fighting??? That remains to be determined. As for WHY he was living there, he was brought there by his parents. A kid in his early teens hardly has a choice in the matter of where his family is going to live.

As for him being guilty of "many more crimes", you have high expectations of such a young kid.

As for this being a "case closed", well, that remains to be seen.

Can you *not* understand that the only reason a Canadian would leave Canada for Aghanistan (a Muslim Canadian with a record of supporting terrorists) is to support our enemies? What do you think he was doing, going on a humanitarian mission? The entire Khadr family is composed of terrorists and fundamentalist/extremist Islamic ideologues. Yes, I recognize there is an element of victimization here - you don't choose your parents. Too bad. Still, this is an open and shut case with respect to his guilt in murdering an American soldier while fighting alongside our terrorist enemies. Khadr and all like him, all terrorist supporters, must be annihilated. He's lucky he was arrested and allowed to live so long. Unfortunately, I don't think he'll receive the death penalty. Hopefully he'll be placed in some supermax prison where he gets murdered in jail.

There is a difference here. Major Hassan was seen by many witnesses carrying out his act. He has also admitted carrying out the act. Kadr has maintained his innocence, and the evidence against him, if so certain, would likely have resulted in a trial long ago.

I already posted this but seeing as you either ignored it or missed it......

Actually, Khadr admitted his guilt via confessions. Are you so clueless to think that open and shut cases, especially terrorist trials post 9/11, are started and concluded quickly? How can you be unaware of how slow the justice process is in so many cases? It is an absolute lie to suggest that delays in justice are the result of lack of evidence.

Why did they originally claim it was someone else???

Why did they, after the fact, change their report to implicate Kadr??? Is it because the guy they originally implicated was killed??? Were they simply looking for someone else to hang this on??? Was it a case of "Well, he's here, he must be guilty of SOMETHING. Let's place the blame in him". Wouldn't be the first time. Consider the 80-year old blind man that needs two canes to walk who has been held in Gitmo for years. I'm sure HE was a threat.

Why is it that no one seems to think that it would be difficult to toss a grenade when you're buried in rubble, or did you not read that par either???

Was his father a terrorist??? Evidence suggests he was, but that does not answer the previous questions I've posed here.

There were even suggestions that the soldier supposedly killed by the grenade supposedly thrown by Kadr may have actually been killed by friendly fire. Of course we can't be believing THAT now, after all, no one has ever been killed by friendly fire from US troops before

It would be interesting to see what an autopsy would turn up.

Nobody ever claimed is was anyone other than Khadr. You are spewing the lies of Khadr's defense attorneys. And you're right, if he's in Afghanistan, living among the Taliban, he is ABSOLUTELY guilty of MANY THINGS. That being said, there is a mountain of evidence proving his guilt. He'll be convicted, don't doubt that for one second. The more I read from your post, the less inclined I am to reply. You have gone off the deep end, bringing up irrelevant stories about some blind man with canes, to suggesting that somehow Khadr was lying in rubble and unable to throw a grenade... This conversation has degenerated to high-school calibre argumentation in a pathetic and desperate attempt to defend a terrorist.

There is FAR more to this case than meets the eye, and this jackal-like baying for the boy's blood does nothing to help find the truth.

Yes, yes, poor Khadr...

Edited November 14, 2009 by Gabriel

[Gabriel]

Well, one thing that we all seem to agree on is that Khadr should get a trial, rather than be kept in limbo.

I recommend he shave off the terrorist beard before setting foot in the courtroom.

As for guilt or innocence, he was defending a country from invaders. Perhaps he was on the wrong side, but that does not make him a murderer, that makes him an enemy combatant, which is very different.

I would not be surprised if he is released for time served. Of course, Harper will do everything possible to avoid bringing him back to Canada.

Anyone who suggests that fighting alongside the Taliban is a "defender from invaders" who is "perhaps" on the wrong side is a traitor. You are the enemy within. It sickens me that people such as yourself live in this country. Unbelievable. Thankfully, this board seems to not have too many terrorist supporters like yourself who support our enemies.

[Gabriel]

PoecketRocket - There is no doubt that this man had an unfortunate upbringing. He was obviously born into an extremist/fundamentalist Islamic terrorist family. There is no doubt about that. He is a victim in that regard. This doesn't absolve him of the responsibility for his crimes. I'm certain this is a common story for many of our enemies - raised in a culture of hatred that advocates extreme violence and totalitarianism. At the end of the day, however, he is still a terrorist and he and those like him must be annihilated. Spare me the questioning over whether or not he threw the grenade, he already confessed to throwing it and stated he was proud that it had killed an American soldier. This crime is just the tip of the iceberg, do you think he wasn't giving his full support to the terrorist animals every minute he was living in Afghanistan among them? He was a part of their unit, supporting them in every way he could. Stop making excuses for animals.

[ba1614]

PoecketRocket - There is no doubt that this man had an unfortunate upbringing. He was obviously born into an extremist/fundamentalist Islamic terrorist family. There is no doubt about that. He is a victim in that regard. This doesn't absolve him of the responsibility for his crimes. I'm certain this is a common story for many of our enemies - raised in a culture of hatred that advocates extreme violence and totalitarianism. At the end of the day, however, he is still a terrorist and he and those like him must be annihilated. Spare me the questioning over whether or not he threw the grenade, he already confessed to throwing it and stated he was proud that it had killed an American soldier. This crime is just the tip of the iceberg, do you think he wasn't giving his full support to the terrorist animals every minute he was living in Afghanistan among them? He was a part of their unit, supporting them in every way he could. Stop making excuses for animals.

Good posts on this subject Gabriel. Sums up very well the way I, and almost every person that I've discussed this criminal with.

[wulf42]

PoecketRocket - There is no doubt that this man had an unfortunate upbringing. He was obviously born into an extremist/fundamentalist Islamic terrorist family. There is no doubt about that. He is a victim in that regard. This doesn't absolve him of the responsibility for his crimes. I'm certain this is a common story for many of our enemies - raised in a culture of hatred that advocates extreme violence and totalitarianism. At the end of the day, however, he is still a terrorist and he and those like him must be annihilated. Spare me the questioning over whether or not he threw the grenade, he already confessed to throwing it and stated he was proud that it had killed an American soldier. This crime is just the tip of the iceberg, do you think he wasn't giving his full support to the terrorist animals every minute he was living in Afghanistan among them? He was a part of their unit, supporting them in every way he could. Stop making excuses for animals.

Well said Gabriel!........people in this country need to stop defending animals!

What i don t understand is why we tolerate Terrorist's supporting people in Canada.they come here then spout off hatred for Canada...his family and any other terrorist supporter should be deported from the country!The American's i would leave this filth on the battlefield were it belongs!

Edited November 14, 2009 by wulf42

[eyeball]

What i don t understand is why we tolerate Terrorist's supporting people in Canada.

No, what you really don't understand is that its people with attitudes like your's that give the most credence to the idea that a lot of terrorists are actually freedom fighters. Its no wonder they can't tolerate you.

You should step back and listen to yourselves sometimes, you sound exactly like somebody who's been radicalized by a religous zealot.

[Topaz]

The way Harper is handling this case could be the down fall of this government. The government shouldn't judge if this guy is guilty or innocent, its duty is to see that being a Canadian-born citizen his rights are not tramped on! As far as the the trial goes, if there is ANY doubt that he did kill anyone, then he has to be found innocent! IF the Surpreme Court tells the government to bring him home and the Tories say no way, then we have a dictator, which is the way Harper been running this country.

[capricorn]

The way Harper is handling this case could be the down fall of this government.

If Canadians were so infuriated at the treatment of Khadr by the Tories, why did they increase their seat count in the last election? I think of Khadr as an annoying boil that is taking too long to burst.

The government shouldn't judge if this guy is guilty or innocent, its duty is to see that being a Canadian-born citizen his rights are not tramped on!

You think because naturalized Canadian were not born here their citizenship rights should not be recognized and defended?

IF the Surpreme Court tells the government to bring him home and the Tories say no way, then we have a dictator,

Even if the Supreme Court orders the government to bring Khadr home, how do you propose that should be done?

[Radsickle]

Even if the Supreme Court orders the government to bring Khadr home, how do you propose that should be done?

With hat in hand.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Radsickle

[eyeball]

Even if the Supreme Court orders the government to bring Khadr home, how do you propose that should be done?

Well, for starters, he probably won't be allowed to fly through US airspace on a commercial or private plane so it'll have to be done by government jet or boat.

I suspect this is going to cost Canadians millions before everything is said and done with, and so it should.

[capricorn]

Well, for starters, he probably won't be allowed to fly through US airspace on a commercial or private plane so it'll have to be done by government jet or boat.

Khadr will most certainly come back to Canada and much sooner than we think. When he does, by whatever means, I expect his supporters will give him a celebrity homecoming that will rival the Lockerbie bomber reception in Lybia. It will be a spectacle to behold.

I suspect this is going to cost Canadians millions before everything is said and done with, and so it should.

No doubt about it. It's no secret that Canada is a cash cow.

[Gabriel]

Khadr will most certainly come back to Canada and much sooner than we think. When he does, by whatever means, I expect his supporters will give him a celebrity homecoming that will rival the Lockerbie bomber reception in Lybia. It will be a spectacle to behold.

No doubt about it. It's no secret that Canada is a cash cow.

Why are you so certain that Khadr will return to Canada? If I was a betting man, I'd bet that he will stay in the USA and face a military commission and be convicted, although I suspect he will not be given the death penalty when convicted (unfortunately).

[capricorn]

This is how I think it will unfold. As we know, there will be a military trial. Following a short trial, there will be a guilty verdict. His young age at the time of the incident, the influence his family played on his behaviour and the years he spent in Guantanamo as a fairly cooperative inmate will be found to be mitigating factors. For those reasons he will be sentenced to time served (or a token extra year will be tacked on for appearances sake). The military gets to close the file of one of Guantanamo's detainees. This will look good on Obama and everyone else associated with this case. Khadr will then become solely Canada's problem. I can't see any other outcome.

[wulf42]

No, what you really don't understand is that its people with attitudes like your's that give the most credence to the idea that a lot of terrorists are actually freedom fighters. Its no wonder they can't tolerate you.

You are disgusting.....you call them freedom fighters???????...they throw acid in young girl faces,behead girls for not covering their faces,execute people just on a whim!

My only hope is Canadians like you are the minority! Here is what your "freedom fighters" as you call them do to villagers ,the people they are according to you protecting!

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/whispers/documents/atrocity011126.pdf

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/massacre.htm

Edited November 15, 2009 by wulf42

[PocketRocket]

Gabriel & ba1614:

What no one here seems to be addressing is the fact that.....

the Pentagon accidentally released documents that revealed that although Khadr was present in the house, there was no other evidence that he had thrown the grenade.

....and also the fact that the original report did NOT name Khadr, but the report was changed later. That was quoted in my earlier link. Not sure if you caught it or not. This is not the speculation of his defense lawyers, this is the Pentagon, you know, the big five-sided building????

Now admittedly, I had not heard that he had confessed to the tossing of the grenade. If this is true, this puts an entirely different complexion on things.

However, after googling the phrase "Omar khadr confession", I got this as the first link that came up......http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/11/14/omar-khadr%E2%80%94closer-to-home/

Just 15 years old at the time, he was shipped to Gitmo and later confessed to throwing a grenade that killed Sgt. Christopher Speer, a decorated U.S. army medic with two young children. But in the years since, human rights groups and the Canadian Bar Association have rallied to the teenager’s defence, claiming his confession was the result of incessant torture....

Kind of tough finding much on the circumstances surrounding the confession. We know there was torture in various forms at Gitmo. Is there truth in the suggestion that Khadr's "confession" was the result of torture??? We do not know this. So many facts that we do not have access to here.

In any case, I hope the trial reveals truth, one way or the other, and that action appropriate to that truth is taken.

My beef here, as in another thread a while back, is not what happens to him after he's had his day in court, but rather the immediate assumption of guilt when all the evidence is not yet in.

Gabriel: You said that Khadr said he was "proud" that he killed a US soldier. I've not been able to find anything of that sort online. Can you give me a link to that, please.

Edited November 15, 2009 by PocketRocket

[PocketRocket]

Anyone who suggests that fighting alongside the Taliban is a "defender from invaders" who is "perhaps" on the wrong side is a traitor. You are the enemy within. It sickens me that people such as yourself live in this country. Unbelievable. Thankfully, this board seems to not have too many terrorist supporters like yourself who support our enemies.

:lol:

Sorry, Gabriel. Your posts are generally pretty intelligent, even though we sometimes disagree.

This, however, rings of GWBush's hardline, extreme-right supporters.

"If you aren't with us, you're against us"

It makes him a "terrorist supporter"???

Sorry, friend, but it's all a bit over-the-top. Too similar to the rhetoric we heard in the USA when some people suggested there were no WMD's in Iraq.

While I do not think of Taliban as the Afghani version of the home guard, remember back in the 80's when the US government, among others, was helping fund the Taliban in their fight against the USSR. At that time they WERE considered to be defending their country from invaders. Now they're trying to keep the USA and her allies out rather than the Russians. At what point exactly did Taliban turn from baddies to goodies??? When their usefulness as against the USSR had expired??? When they started fighting "us" instead of "them"???

If the Taliban suddenly turned their attention against North Korea, would that make them "goodies" again???

Again, the world just ain't quite so black-and-white and speculating on various viewpoints, or even playing devil's advocate, are hardly grounds to call someone a traitor.

[PocketRocket]

Well said Gabriel!........people in this country need to stop defending animals!

What i don t understand is why we tolerate Terrorist's supporting people in Canada.they come here then spout off hatred for Canada...his family and any other terrorist supporter should be deported from the country!The American's i would leave this filth on the battlefield were it belongs!

This was in a response to Gabriel's post addressing something I had said, so I'll pick it up.

Show me where I was defending an "animal"??? In another thread I was definitely speaking out AGAINST an animal, a violent chimp in the USA, and I don't mean Bush.

In this thread all I have done is criticized the fact that many people are passing judgment when we do not have all the evidence, and where some of the evidence we DO have, ie; the report implicating Khadr, was, according to THE PENTAGON, changed after the fact.

All I have said is that there is a POSSIBILITY that Khadr is innocent of the charge of throwing the grenade.

In this regard I am absolutely correct. There IS that possibility.

Unless you are in possession of some magical crystal-ball with which you can see events both past and present from far off lands, then you have no more evidence that the rest of us, certainly not enough to say with absolute certainty that Khadr threw that grenade.

I simply do not buy into the "lynch mob" mentality.

If he's guilty, hang him. If not, then address the situation appropriately.

Edited November 15, 2009 by PocketRocket

[PocketRocket]

No, what you really don't understand is that its people with attitudes like your's that give the most credence to the idea that a lot of terrorists are actually freedom fighters. Its no wonder they can't tolerate you.

You are disgusting.....you call them freedom fighters???????

:lol:

Deleted the rest of post since it was more of same, but, LMFAO.

And to think I was accused of poor reading comprehension on this board.

Um....WULF...eyeball is NOT saying that these people are freedom fighters.

I'm not sure if I should help you with this or let you figure it out on your own.

Meh. Since you're so sure that anyone who even suggests that Khadr MAY be innocent is "disgusting", you're on your own.

Read the post again. If necessary, get someone to help you.

[PocketRocket]

Sorry, hit wrong button.

Edited November 15, 2009 by PocketRocket