Conservative Inroads With Immigrants

[wyly]

Here is another generaliztion: you'll find that generalization is a refuge of the bigoted and stupid.

Racism transcends party lines.

racists will allways gather in greatest numbers on the extreme right of any society...always...

[eyeball]

Racism transcends party lines.

Its how social conservatism transcends religous lines that is at issue here.

This isn't about racism at all.

[wyly]

Its how social conservatism transcends religous lines that is at issue here.

This isn't about racism at all.

reading the posts here and matching racist posts with conservative political agenda is the trend, rarely will you find a left leaning poster here who is racist...

[JerrySeinfeld]

This doesn't surprise me one bit.

Why do liberals have the monopoly on new Canadians? Because they are brown and PCs hate brown people? How cliche...and so "1980's".

Most of left wing libera; viewpoints on immigrations is antiquated: they are a bunch of brown or yellow huddled masses with no redeeming qualities other than, well, being coloured.

Just watch

to see the basic attitude of liberals toward coloured folk: you are ours, so you'd better play nice.

Unfortunately for the liberals, as things progress many self reliant immigrants will look at their policies and decide they don't agree.

The largest minority in the USA is latinos. Do you think they're all shits and giggles about abortion or gay marriage?

Being from texas, George W Bush always had a soft spot in his heart for latinos. Future republicans should continue the trend as the latino community represents a huge opportunity for the GOP.

Same applies in Canada. Most Sikhs or chinese immigrants don't want a hand out, and they don't want to be patronized to. The whole "hey, you're yellow/brown, so I'm on your team and those horrid tories are not" routine will get more and more tired as new Canadians education themselves. It's patronizing, racist and obtuse.

Just ask Barbara Boxer.

[fellowtraveller]

reading the posts here and matching racist posts with conservative political agenda is the trend, rarely will you find a left leaning poster here who is racist...

Your timing is off, when you want to deliver a joke you need to pause a bit in the middle before delivering the punchline.

Liberals and NDP supporters are not .................racist.

Like that.

[fellowtraveller]

Your timing is off, when you want to deliver a joke you need to pause a bit in the middle before delivering the punchline.

Liberals and NDP supporters are not .................racist.

Like that.

Oh, and a question for you. I support same sex marriage, abortion on demand, public education, universal access to health care and I do not love Jesus. I also voted for Harper more than once.

Am I a conservative?

[g_bambino]

Its really the social conservatism that I think is the main issue here and I did say all fundamentalists...that said if there are any examples of liberal fundamentalists that are also socially conservative I'd like to see them.

No, you didn't say "all fundamentalists". What you did was say was that "fundamentalists" and "social conservatives" were counter to the country's "evolution towards a more rational and humane society"; that strongly implies that fundamentalists and social conservatives are of the same kin, while liberals are their opposite, being "rational and humane." Asking for liberal fundamentalists who are also socially conservative merely serves to reinforce the insinuation: only liberalism is good, conservatism is bad.

[justme]

Yeah, don't let the fact that Democrat Senator Robert Byrd was a member of KKK, or that it was Prime Minister John Diefenbaker that gave indians the right to vote without condition stop you from arguing that conservatives are racist and liberals aren't. If Liberals are so great and the natural governing party of Canada -- blah blah blah -- why didn't a Liberal Prime Minister give indians the right to vote without condition?

[eyeball]

No, you didn't say "all fundamentalists". What you did was say was that "fundamentalists" and "social conservatives" were counter to the country's "evolution towards a more rational and humane society";...

Excuse me but yes I did say ALL fundamentalists.

Something I value as a tradition in Canada is our evolution towards becoming a more rational and humane society something that just about all fundamentalists take a dim view towards.

Source

...that strongly implies that fundamentalists and social conservatives are of the same kin, while liberals are their opposite, being "rational and humane." Asking for liberal fundamentalists who are also socially conservative merely serves to reinforce the insinuation: only liberalism is good, conservatism is bad

What you obviously ignored is where I qualified my use of the words "all fundamentalists" by saying "just about" immediately beforehand so what I've clearly allowed for is the possibility that a fundamentalist can also be a social liberal in the same sense that any typical liberal lefty is.

Now all that said I do happen to agree with the other posters who have pointed out, that fundamentalism and social conservatism go together like peas and carrots, whereas fundamentalism and lefties go together more like liver and ice cream.

As for attempts to now make this into an issue about race...

“The last three or four years there's been a growing willingness to support the Conservatives,” he said. “The Conservatives are bending over backwards to accommodate us.”

Same-sex marriage was the first wedge in the relationship (between immigrants and the Liberals). It was difficult for many Sikhs to accept because their religion forbids it, Mr. Dhaliwal said

This is clearly about religion and more to the point its about mixing and manipulating electoral politics with religion and I think it stinks to high heaven and I think our society risks becoming less rational and humane as a result.

[Argus]

How is that specific or relevant to 'this country'?

It is specific to the argument that immigrants, ALL immigrants, become Canadianized over time, or their children do. Well, here we have children of immigrants, born and raised in Canada but clearly still with an alien mentality which sees themselves as kin to their co-religionists in other nations more than they are to Canadians.

And at least a percentage of Muslims in a survey thought such actions were justified, about 10% in fact, which works out to something over 100,000 people in Canada at the moment.

I don't require a sense of kinship from immigrants.

I'm talking about immigrants AND their Canadian children. You don't find it strange that these children, born and raised here, supposedly as Canadian as anyone else, feels more kinship with the drooling backward peasants of Afghanistan than they do with Canadians? To the exten their willing to kill us in outrage that we are attacking members of their "nation"?

There is no inevitability to it if their sub-culture gets large enough to be a self-sustaining community, with children raised in it, going to their own schools, then going "home" to get a proper bride or husband.

[Argus]

all immigrants should all visit this site to see what conservatives really think of them...

I think of immigrants the way I think of newly hired workers. We watch them to see who performs well and who does not. With that in mind, we adjust our criteria for the next batch of new hires.

That doesn't mean I dislike immigrants - though I do dislike the cultural values many of them bring over.

[Argus]

racists will allways gather in greatest numbers on the extreme right of any society...always...

What about anti-semites? They seem to be gathering mainly on the Left now.

[eyeball]

Argus, why do you insist on making this an issue about race when its clearly about conservative values as they relate to religion and things like gay marriage and how these can be manipulated to boost the electoral fortunes of the Conservative Party of Canada?

The article in question talks about Sikhs not Muslims.

This is about socially conservative immigrants and their kinship with like-minded co-religionists right here in Canada. Don't you share the socially conservative values these immigrants bring to Canada?

Edited October 29, 2009 by eyeball

[fellowtraveller]

It is specific to the argument that immigrants, ALL immigrants, become Canadianized over time, or their children do. Well, here we have children of immigrants, born and raised in Canada but clearly still with an alien mentality which sees themselves as kin to their co-religionists in other nations more than they are to Canadians.

And at least a percentage of Muslims in a survey thought such actions were justified, about 10% in fact, which works out to something over 100,000 people in Canada at the moment.

I'm talking about immigrants AND their Canadian children. You don't find it strange that these children, born and raised here, supposedly as Canadian as anyone else, feels more kinship with the drooling backward peasants of Afghanistan than they do with Canadians? To the exten their willing to kill us in outrage that we are attacking members of their "nation"?

There is no inevitability to it if their sub-culture gets large enough to be a self-sustaining community, with children raised in it, going to their own schools, then going "home" to get a proper bride or husband.

Your premise seems to be that racism and hatred and the carrying of grudges are exclusive to immigrants or their children and related to their religion, all of which are clearly false. Most white people, immigrant or not, would not want their children marrying a person of another colour or religion. Are they any different than your immigrants, other than either not being surveyed on their bigotry or being unwilling to admit it?

And your paranoia is overwhelming your common sense. In my small Canadian city, there are about 1500 Afghan people, and seceral thousand Somalis. Acts of international terrroism or domestic terrorism= approximately zero.

Work hard, pay taxes, obey our laws. Beyond that, we are all free to do what we please. It is why all of us, including recent arrivals, inclduing your ancestors and mine, came here for.

[Argus]

Argus, why do you insist on making this an issue about race when its clearly about conservative values as they relate to religion and things like gay marriage and how these can be manipulated to boost the electoral fortunes of the Conservative Party of Canada?

The article in question talks about Sikhs not Muslims.

I spoke about Muslims as an example, but Sikhs can be as bad. They're just less in the news because they aren't blowing things up any more. Honor killing still exists. Women are still inferiors, and there is a current of fanaticism throughout some of that community, esp in terms of things back in Punjab.

This is about socially conservative immigrants and their kinship with like-minded co-religionists right here in Canada. Don't you share the socially conservative values these immigrants bring to Canada?

No, I can't think of any values, offhand, that I share with my understanding of the generalized value system Sikhs have. They do seem to be hard workers... but there again, I'm kind of lazy so...

They also appear to be generally law-abiding except when questions about their religion or morality arise. at that point they don't seem to consider man-made laws to be of much importance.

[Argus]

Your premise seems to be that racism and hatred and the carrying of grudges are exclusive to immigrants or their children and related to their religion, all of which are clearly false. Most white people, immigrant or not, would not want their children marrying a person of another colour or religion. Are they any different than your immigrants, other than either not being surveyed on their bigotry or being unwilling to admit it?

I think all communities are racist/prejudiced to a certain degree. The difference, to me, lies in the depths of dislike, and distrust evidenced by people from third-world countries. Or to put it another way, a Christian bigot from small town Ontario might not be willing to rent a room to a gay guy, wherase an Iranian might want to bury them alive and then urinate on the grave. There IS a quantifiable difference. Race and religious riots in third world countries often tend to wind up as murder and arson sprees because of the degree of hatred and dehumanization which goes on.

In my small Canadian city, there are about 1500 Afghan people, and seceral thousand Somalis. Acts of international terrroism or domestic terrorism= approximately zero.

Work hard, pay taxes, obey our laws.

Somalis? Working hard? Working? Obeying laws? Really? Which town is that? You could offer it up as a tourism mecca to people who live in Ottawa. "Look! Come to the town where Somalis work hard and obey the law!"