Canadian Identity: un-American

[whowhere]

Oh, you mean like how we get a prime minister via the parliamentary system instead of popular vote?

No I mean a direct vote via the electoral system for the GG who will represent Canadians. People should not be confused in choosing an MP. The best person in the region should be elected regardless of party or implications of who will be PM because of it.

[Alta4ever]

Yes but if been reading the posts on this thread the Governor General has to ascent all legislation and has the power to fire the PM and the Cabinet and establish a new PM and Cabinet. That is broad stroke power to veto and redirect Canada's governance as required. As it stands we an unelected prime minister who recommends the governor general to the Queen and is signed off on without thought. Canada doesn't need a rubberstamp GG recommended by an unelected Prime Minister. Nothing would change except Canadians would elect the Governor General to represent the Queen instead of the PM selecting one.

As for your tarded statement the Americans don't directly vote for the Presidents makes you somewhat kin of a holocaust denier who is trying to rewrite reality.

http://www.voanews.com/bangla/archive/2008-11/2008-11-04-voa3.cfm?moddate=2008-11-04

Yes Americans vote for the president via the electoral college system instead of popular vote. The electoral college is the only true reflection of democracy. To have it any other way would allow demographics to sway the vote which would not reflect the sentiments of the US as it is.

The Prime Misnister is elected, indirectly. You want the ability to vote for the Prime Minister buy a party membership in each party and vote, oh wait the conservative party is the only federal party with one member one vote. Well buy a cpc membership and vote in the next leadership race. If you support the NDP or the liberals i guess your screwed.

[whowhere]

The Prime Misnister is elected, indirectly. You want the ability to vote for the Prime Minister buy a party membership in each party and vote, oh wait the conservative party is the only federal party with one member one vote. Well buy a cpc membership and vote in the next leadership race. If you support the NDP or the liberals i guess your screwed.

The Prime Minister is not elected. The BNA Act and the 1982 Constitution explicitly outlines the role of the GG. The Prime Minister doesn't exist. The GG has the power to veto and allow who forms the cabinet. Canadians should choose this GG not an unelected PM. If you support democracy, then you support Canadians choosing the GG.

[bush_cheney2004]

..... The US president has the power to veto, the GG has the power to veto. This is what Canadians need to wrestle the Country back from the Communist conservatives.

You don't live in the US...get over it. Presidential vetoes can be overridden by the Congress.

Because you lack the Capacity to enlighten this thread you run like a pretension coward. Back up your BS you have said. You can't so this is your cop out. Other forums have a cry baby emoticons but this will have to do

LOL! You don't even know how a Westminster system works, let alone how another nation's government is designed. It seems you manage to cock anything and everything up very badly because of too much American television. Call your Queen for an immediate intervention.

[whowhere]

You don't live in the US...get over it. Presidential vetoes can be overridden by the Congress.

Now you have to be one of those clueless ignorant americans the world goes on a about. Pick up a book and learn something. Nothing makes into law unless the presidents signs it, Got it?? I doubt it, you sound thick and dim. In anycase if the president refuses to sign the legislation it dies and there is nothing congress can do about it other than rewrite the bill until this president will sign off on it.

LOL! You don't even know how a Westminster system works, let alone how another nation's government is designed. It seems you manage to cock anything and everything up very badly because of too much American television. Call your Queen for an immediate intervention.

Go back into this thread and you will find a reference to the statue of westminister. you will also see it states it does nothing to alter what is in the BNA act. What's your point about American TV? As for the Queen, she ought to have finished what she started. She signed off on the 1982 Constitution and the charter, its time she signs off on allowing Canadians to elect and choose the GG to represent her. I can't see her having a problem with that as she will still be represented.

[bush_cheney2004]

Now you have to be one of those clueless ignorant americans the world goes on a about. Pick up a book and learn something. Nothing makes into law unless the presidents signs it, Got it?? I doubt it, you sound thick and dim. In anycase if the president refuses to sign the legislation it dies and there is nothing congress can do about it other than rewrite the bill until this president will sign off on it.

I know I shouldn't waste my time with idiots, but it's fun! You really don't have a clue, do you? If the US president fails to sign within ten days without a veto, the bill becomes law, unless Congress adjourns (pocket veto).

It is clear to me that you are the worst kind of American wannabe...the kind that doesn't know what you are talking about while aping all things American against your own country...absolutely pathetic. I hope you call the Queen and she spanks your ass.

[Smallc]

oh wait the conservative party is the only federal party with one member one vote.

All 3 parties now have one member one vote. They simply haven't held a leadership contest since the policy was implemented.

[jbg]

The world likes outgoing, charismatic leaders. Why should Canadians be deprived a leader to Navigate Canada in the interests of....Canadians. We need to put an end to the communist conservatives and Liberals and have Canada governored in the Interests of Canada.

But I thought Canada doesn't own Canada.

[whowhere]

I know I shouldn't waste my time with idiots, but it's fun! You really don't have a clue, do you? If the US president fails to sign within ten days without a veto, the bill becomes law, unless Congress adjourns (pocket veto).

Whatever, the president still can veto, your point is??

It is clear to me that you are the worst kind of American wannabe...the kind that doesn't know what you are talking about while aping all things American against your own country...absolutely pathetic. I hope you call the Queen and she spanks your ass.

American wannabe? It sounds to me you are an immigrant who wants to think and believe he's american but for some reason you are feeling rejected. Why are main street americans treating you this way....Yes pathetic.

[whowhere]

But I thought Canada doesn't own Canada.

Besides the point, the GG represents the Queen. The GG is chosen by an unelected PM and becomes a rubberstamp to whatever the unelected PM does and wants. It makes no difference to the monarch whether the GG is selected by the Canadian people or the unelected PM because the monarch will still be represented. The difference is, is Canadians will have a voice to stop the Communists.

[bush_cheney2004]

Whatever, the president still can veto, your point is??

...the veto can be overridden. You seem to have missed that part.

American wannabe? It sounds to me you are an immigrant who wants to think and believe he's american but for some reason you are feeling rejected. Why are main street americans treating you this way....Yes pathetic.

Yet you pine for the cheaper gas, fags, and alcohol found in the USA.....amazing. And an elected president too....sorry, but to get that will take a revolution. Queen wouldn't like that.

Edited December 19, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[Alta4ever]

The Prime Minister is not elected. The BNA Act and the 1982 Constitution explicitly outlines the role of the GG. The Prime Minister doesn't exist. The GG has the power to veto and allow who forms the cabinet. Canadians should choose this GG not an unelected PM. If you support democracy, then you support Canadians choosing the GG.

The GG is a sybolic role that cannot subvert the will of parliment, if they did the same thing would happen here as did in the land down under, no more gg.

[whowhere]

The GG is a sybolic role that cannot subvert the will of parliment, if they did the same thing would happen here as did in the land down under, no more gg.

http://www.gg.gov.au/governorgeneral/

Australia has a governor general and as jbg has pointed out in this thread the GG fired the PM. The GG is enshrined the BNA Act and the 1982 Constitution and has to ascent all legislation, senate, and judiciary appointments or else the legislation dies, no senator gets appointed, and no judiciaries either.

[whowhere]

...the veto can be overridden. You seem to have missed that part.

you are pointless and clueless. A veto by the US president cannot be overriden as nothing makes it into law unless he signs it. Explain to us how this happens if he refuses and prove it.

Yet you pine for the cheaper gas, fags, and alcohol found in the USA.....amazing. And an elected president too....sorry, but to get that will take a revolution. Queen wouldn't like that.

Whatever, The GG is selected by an unelected PM. It makes no difference to the Queen if the Canadian people chose the GG or the PM. The end result is the same, the monarch is represented. However, as I said countless times, the GG has to ascent legislation, if that doesn't happen it dies. It's time Canadians and the Monarch are equally represented against the communist conservatives.

[bush_cheney2004]

you are pointless and clueless. A veto by the US president cannot be overriden as nothing makes it into law unless he signs it. Explain to us how this happens if he refuses and prove it.

Patently false....you obviously have no idea how the process works, but that's OK...'cause you live in Canada!

Before a bill becomes law, it must be presented to the President, who has ten days (excluding Sundays) to act upon it. If the President signs the bill, it becomes law. If he disapproves of the bill, he must return it to the House in which it originated together with his objections. This procedure has become known as the veto, although that particular word does not appear in the text of Article One.

The bill does not then become law unless both Houses, by two-thirds votes, override the veto.

If the President neither signs nor returns the bill within the ten-day limit, the bill becomes law, unless the Congress has adjourned in the meantime, thereby preventing the President from returning the bill to the House in which it originated. In the latter case, the President, by taking no action on the bill towards the end of a session, exercises a "pocket veto", which Congress may not override.

[jbg]

you are pointless and clueless. A veto by the US president cannot be overriden as nothing makes it into law unless he signs it. Explain to us how this happens if he refuses and prove it.

U.S. Constitution - Article I Section 7 - Revenue Bills, Legislative Process, Presidential Veto

All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by Yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.

[whowhere]

Patently false....you obviously have no idea how the process works, but that's OK...'cause you live in Canada!

Before a bill becomes law, it must be presented to the President, who has ten days (excluding Sundays) to act upon it. If the President signs the bill, it becomes law. If he disapproves of the bill, he must return it to the House in which it originated together with his objections. This procedure has become known as the veto, although that particular word does not appear in the text of Article One.

The bill does not then become law unless both Houses, by two-thirds votes, override the veto.

If the President neither signs nor returns the bill within the ten-day limit, the bill becomes law, unless the Congress has adjourned in the meantime, thereby preventing the President from returning the bill to the House in which it originated. In the latter case, the President, by taking no action on the bill towards the end of a session, exercises a "pocket veto", which Congress may not override.

In any case there are conditions and the president still can reject the legislation at least stalling it or the bill is abondoned. In Canada we have no one to veto or reject legislation. Canada has an unelected senate and a party who is the PM, the legislature, and the cabinet. In Contrast, the President forms the administration which controls the US government, in Canada its the cabinet. Not only are the communist conservatives making laws, they are controlling the government as well. To much power in the hands of a political party to wreck the country. Canada is proof of it. An unchecked majority is the worse situation for Canada. Proof is what mulroney did to Canada. Thanks to him Canada was put deep in debt and we now have a GST that's not going away. If Canada had a GG elected by the Canadian people, majority governments can be stopped when it is obvious they are corrupt.

[Smallc]

The GG is a sybolic role that cannot subvert the will of parliment,

If parliament were to attempt something unconstitutional, the Governor General would have to stop what was happening. It happened in your own province once.

[whowhere]

If parliament were to attempt something unconstitutional, the Governor General would have to stop what was happening. It happened in your own province once.

Why are you against having the Canadian select a GG who will go to bat for Canada when required? Majority governments have been dangerous for Canada, history has proven that fact. An elected GG can stop bad legislation and bad actions before fat head majority governments overstep themselves. Canada needs this safeguard mechanism. The PM choosing a rubberstamp GG is a conflict of Interest. Proof is when the rubberstamp appointed GG by Harper prorogued parliament to save him. Harper should have faced the parliament and got his ass fired as he deserved. An elected GG would have told harper to take a hike.

[Halfempty]

Why are you against having the Canadian select a GG who will go to bat for Canada when required? Majority governments have been dangerous for Canada, history has proven that fact. An elected GG can stop bad legislation and bad actions before fat head majority governments overstep themselves. Canada needs this safeguard mechanism. The PM choosing a rubberstamp GG is a conflict of Interest. Proof is when the rubberstamp appointed GG by Harper prorogued parliament to save him. Harper should have faced the parliament and got his ass fired as he deserved. An elected GG would have told harper to take a hike.

You realize GGs don't have any real power right? It's a ceremonial position and we only still have GGs and LGs to keep tradition. They represent the queen, who has no power over Canada anymore, so obviously her representatives wouldn't have any real power either.

Yes, one of the few powers GGs have is to suspend parliament, which Harper advised her to do to save himself. It wouldn't have mattered whether GG Michelle Jean was elected by the people or appointed by Harper though, the same outcome would have still happenned. This is because the GGs HAVE to "take the advise" of the Prime Minister, it's their job to listen to whatever the PM says, and this would happen whether they are elected or appointed.

[Smallc]

You realize GGs don't have any real power right?

You realize that's completely false, right?

[Smallc]

it's their job to listen to whatever the PM says

It is...unless listening to the Prime Minister would result in something contrary to the Constitution....or, if the Prime Minister is asking her to do something that the parliament doesn't have he power to do.

[whowhere]

You realize GGs don't have any real power right? It's a ceremonial position and we only still have GGs and LGs to keep tradition. They represent the queen, who has no power over Canada anymore, so obviously her representatives wouldn't have any real power either.

If the monarch lost its entitlement to Canada where did this power over Canada shifted? You are obviously another communist who believes Canada belongs to the Conservatives and the Liberals. The GG is enshrined in the BNA act and the 1982 Constitution. The GG represents the Queen, and the Queen is still the sovereign of Canada. The Queen has exercised her sovereignty over Canada through the UK parliament in 1949 to join Newfoundland to Canada, and in 1982 to give Canadians an amending formula to add to the 1982 Constitution. The Queen has another step to make, and that is to allow Canadians to choose the GG to represent her. The GG's powers is clearly stated in the BNA, the 1982 Constitution, and English Common Law. Just because the GG has been dorment does not mean the GG's role cannot be brought to full force for the benefit of Canadians.

Yes, one of the few powers GGs have is to suspend parliament, which Harper advised her to do to save himself. It wouldn't have mattered whether GG Michelle Jean was elected by the people or appointed by Harper though, the same outcome would have still happenned. This is because the GGs HAVE to "take the advise" of the Prime Minister, it's their job to listen to whatever the PM says, and this would happen whether they are elected or appointed.

You acknowledge the GG has powers. The GG has the power to disolve parliament, to fire the PM and Cabinet, and not ascent legislation (a veto really). It would matter if the GG was elected by the people because the GG would no longer be a rubberstamp but a guardian to protect Canadians from the communist conservatives and liberals.

[Riverwind]

You acknowledge the GG has powers. The GG has the power to disolve parliament, to fire the PM and Cabinet, and not ascent legislation (a veto really). It would matter if the GG was elected by the people because the GG would no longer be a rubberstamp but a guardian to protect Canadians from the communist conservatives and liberals.

IOW, all the GG can do is send the matter back to the people for a vote. A useful and necessary safeguard in our system.

[g_bambino]

No I mean a direct vote via the electoral system.

Like a direct confidence vote via parliament.