Courting Quebec

[odie441]

Every election our politicians bend over backwards to court Quebec.

Yesterday PM Martin admitted he was doing just that in the province.

The question we have to ask ourselves is why? Why do we continually court the spoiled child? Let them vote Bloc and continue not having a strong voice in the House of Commons.

The whole issue of Quebec separation is a fraud perpetrated by Quebec politicians and the power brokers in Ottawa. I work in the government sector, am bilingual and I see this every day. Quebecers are holding a majority of the management positions in the Federal government and those who do not speak French are penalized on a daily basis.

Trudeau sure managed to screw English Canada when he brought in the Official Languages Act. An Act that 9 provinces and three territories are obligated to follow. Notice I said 9 provinces because only in Quebec is provincial law allowed to over ride federal law. Only in Quebec have I walked into a federal office and found absolutely no one who speaks English. When I asked about this lack of English service I was quite rudely told the Québec law says that it is not required. When I stated that the official languages act stated that I was entitled to service in English I was told that Québec law was more important than federal law and was what they followed. Upon my return home I called the federal government and also questioned it through my department and was told that Quebec is allowed to decide where bilingual service is offered depending on where English is concentrated.

So while the rest of Canada must offer service in both languages in every federal office outside Quebec, inside Quebec the province gets to decide where bilingual service gets offered.

So one does a little research of the Federal government archives and realizes that all theses little rules are changed and put in place by bureaucrats mostly Franco and from Quebec.

This brings me back to my assumption that the whole Quebec language/culture/separation issue is nothing but a fraud being perpetrated on the rest of Canada so that Quebec can have its way and get what they want.

I lived in the Saganay for five years. MY view is that Quebec is definitely a distinct culture but not a distinct society. They are not losing anything let alone their language and way of life. It is vibrant and very much alive.

As for being a distinct culture, yes they are. Just like the Italians or the Greeks or the Chinese for that matter. I don't see us giving special rights and privileges to these groups. As a matter of fact, Martin just parachuted a Caucasian into one of the most Chinese orientated ridings in BC. Would he do that to Quebec and parachute an Anglo into a hardcore French riding. Of course not, just another example of the double standard that is practiced in this country everyday.

Even our politicians are claiming they come from Québec to court these spoiled children. PM Martin is not from Quebec, he was born in southern Ontario. Why forsake where you were born? Is he ashamed to be from Ontario?

[Michael Hardner]

The obvious answer is that Quebec holds a large number of "swing" seats that can go one way or another, but are ultimately winnable by the Liberals or the Tories if the leader speaks French. So from a strategic point of view campaigning hard in Quebec makes sense.

I found this quite interesting:

Only in Quebec have I walked into a federal office and found absolutely no one who speaks English. When I asked about this lack of English service I was quite rudely told the Québec law says that it is not required. When I stated that the official languages act stated that I was entitled to service in English I was told that Québec law was more important than federal law and was what they followed. Upon my return home I called the federal government and also questioned it through my department and was told that Quebec is allowed to decide where bilingual service is offered depending on where English is concentrated.

If I were you, I would contact the National Post with the details of this encounter. If it is indeed official policy, then it seems that it contradicts the official languages act and would make for a nicely embarassing piece on the sitting government.

[maplesyrup]

odie441....that's a crock (I don't mean what you are saying, but what what you were apparently told), and Michael is absolutely correct.

Anyway people in Canada have had ample opportunity to become bilingual by now. Quite frankly I am getting very tired of the whining from both unilingual anglos and francos.

Isn't it about time we started looking for a third official language to learn and adopt? Bilingualism is one of the prices you pay, if you look upon it that way, to be Canadian as far as I am concerned. People, we need to move on with some fresh new ideas here. Not the same-old, same-old.

It not Quebec but rather the

Ouebec-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor corridor which is the principle Canadian problem, with their constantly treating the outlying areas of Canada as their colonies.

[idealisttotheend]

Isn't it about time we started looking for a third official language to learn and adopt?

Given the current ethnic makeup of the country I think if we were going to introduce another we'd actually need about ten or fifteen, (aboriginal laguages, madarain, who knows what else). Maybe designating more languages 'official' is not the solution. as much as encouraging multilinguilism is schools and such.

Ouebec-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor corridor which is the principle Canadian problem,

Senate reform, Senate reform, Senate reform.

[playfullfellow]

Quebec has enjoyed doing their own thing for years. I don't really care if they do as long as the rest of the country can do the same. Why shouldn't each province be able to do what is best for the people who live there? Biligualism should not be a "swear word" but it has become such because we do not really have a choice which language we want to learn. As a person who is EASL, I am bilingual but do not speak French. I am proud to know two languages and wish for my kids to learn a second language but I feel they should at least have choice as to which language to learn. But anyways, I think Ottawa should stop sucking up to Quebec but as stated by others, it is kind of a necessary evil. Maybe if other provinces started acting like a spoiled child, then we would see some better representation but I doubt it. Political reform is one option, provincial revolt is another.

[August1991]

I gotta answer this thread.

Every election our politicians bend over backwards to court Quebec.

I think Ottawa should stop sucking up to Quebec but as stated by others, it is kind of a necessary evil.

This argument reminds me of the Jewish Cabal in the US that controls the banks, Hollywood and the government. Yeah, right.

Minorities are precisely that: a minority. A linguistic minority moreso.

English Canadian frustration with Canada invariably lays the blame with Quebec. (Can I say "English Canadian" or am I being politically incorrect? I don't mean "English" English. I mean you guys out there, ROC.) Just like American frustration with America lays the blame with Jews or some other minority.

If Quebec ever left Canada, ROC would have to find someone else to pick on.

Given the current ethnic makeup of the country I think if we were going to introduce another we'd actually need about ten or fifteen, (aboriginal laguages, madarain, who knows what else).

Isn't it about time we started looking for a third official language to learn and adopt?

I don't mean to pick on you MS, I have always liked (but usually disagreed with) your posts.

French is an official language in Canada because many, many Canadian citizens (about 20% or so) speak only French. Moreover, these citizens happily go about their lives only in French and they have absolutely no reason to learn English. Imagine! In North America!

I used to think that learning a new language opened minds but I have met too many polyglot idiots. (What's the Somerset Maugham line? "I knew a man who could speak eight languages. Unfortunately, he couldn't say anything intelligent in any one of them.")

The big debate now in Quebec is whether to vote Liberal (and have Cabinet members) or to vote BQ (and be excluded from power). The issue is: what's better for Quebec.

I suppose you guys will imagine that Quebecers secretly meet on the Saturday before the election and decide, en bloc, how to screw the other nine provinces. (*Sigh*)

Ouebec-Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto-Windsor corridor which is the principle Canadian problem,

Senate reform, Senate reform, Senate reform.

Whatever happened to one man, one vote? Is it fair that a voter in PEI gets in effect ten ballots, but a voter in Toronto gets only one? Should PEI have the same number of Senators as BC? Is that fair?

[maplesyrup]

Whatever happened to one man, one vote? Is it fair that a voter in PEI gets in effect ten ballots, but a voter in Toronto gets only one? Should PEI have the same number of Senators as BC? Is that fair?

All this talk about reforming the Senate as some panacea for Canada's political ills is whistlin' Dixie. The Senate is a patronage club and the sooner it is abolished the better.

If Canadians seriously want a democratic society they need to change to some form of PR for electing our MPs in the House of Commons.

The last three governments in Canada have been Liberal majorities, with 38% to what, 42% of the vote. What kind of democracy is that?

Let's say the Green Party (and I'm no fan) gets 5% of the vote - why do they not get 5% of the seats. No wonder so many Canadians, and probably more this election, have lost interest in voting. They consider it a ripoff. And you know what, they are correct. The system sucks.

All the progressive political stuff is happenin' provincially or locally in Canada. Eventually the federales I suppose will be brought kickin' and screamin' into the 21st century. Too bad they are still functioning like they are in the 19th.

[playfullfellow]

I suppose you guys will imagine that Quebecers secretly meet on the Saturday before the election and decide, en bloc, how to screw the other nine provinces. (*Sigh*)

I never did say that Quebec sits around and tries to figure out how to screw the rest of the country. Quebec more or less wants to be left alone by the rest of the country, not a prob as far as I am concerned. Does Ottawa suck up to Quebec, you bet your bippy they do. Do I care, well I wouldn't as long as what applies to Quebec applies to the rest of the country.

[idealisttotheend]

All this talk about reforming the Senate as some panacea for Canada's political ills is whistlin' Dixie. The Senate is a patronage club and the sooner it is abolished the better. 

If Canadians seriously want a democratic society they need to change to some form of PR for electing our MPs in the House of Commons.

Agree and agree. I think the Senate should be changed to be an effective second house of government. I also think that PR is a great idea but is a bit tough to combine with electing an individual you want to represent you. I suggest:

1) the senate be elected with equal votes for five regions BC/Prairies and North, Ontario, Quebec and Maritimes.

2) it either be elected based on the PR of the votes for the House of Commons (say vote on a list of candidates for each party after the MP election) or on a non-partisan basis all together, like they do up north.

3) It have all the powers of the House to suggest and deny legislation except in cases of war/security or if the opposition and government of the house agree to a veto of the senate.

Whatever happened to one man, one vote? Is it fair that a voter in PEI gets in effect ten ballots, but a voter in Toronto gets only one? Should PEI have the same number of Senators as BC? Is that fair?

Yes and no. I don't think it should be 10 to 1 PEI to Toronto and that one house has to be one person one vote. But in a country this large, there are going to be real differences between the regions. For example, Ontario might not want to do anything to irritate the American's on trade because they are doing well exporting their auto parts but out West the farmers and ranchers and loggers are getting killed by American protectionism. A regional based Senate could better moderate this conflict on the federal level. Plus Quebec has much different needs (and has been fairly successful at) defending it's majority language and culture than does say BC which is fairly more diverse and so has all different challenges. Again, a regionally balanced Senate could help moderate these differences. We have a history of regional parties in the Commons that aren't really all that effective since they can never be in the majority. Therefore a regional system could also help to ensure that a government that gets, say, 102 of 103 seats in Ontario still has to listen to all the regions and not write any of them off.

It might also go along way to stopping all the complaining of 'alienation' and such and get people working on more constructive approaches to whatever problems we might have. Though I doubt it, too much political hay to be made by blaming the Feds for everything. Shall we pine for Trudeau awhile?