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Ignatieff to talk tax hikes, cost-cutting to kill deficit


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http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/091007/...natieff_deficit

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff is gearing up to talk about tax hikes and cost-cutting to slay the country's ballooning deficit.

Senior party sources say it's part of a politically risky "adult conversation" he wants to have with Canadians about the painful measures necessary to deal with the debt.

Voters typically balk at the notion of paying more taxes, even for a good cause.

We'll see how this debate goes.

I have said in the past that the conversation on ending the deficit has to deal with tax as well as cutbacks.

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Seems to me that he is being realistic and brutally honest and that is more than we can say about the Harperites.

Harper has said that the will end of the deficit will come with no cut to transfer or raising taxes. If he believes that a rise in revenues will do it, I hope he gives a timetable for that. If he is going to cut, please tell us where.

The Liberals should debate it seriously and put the proposal to the Budget Officer.

Edited by jdobbin
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Seems to me that he is being realistic and brutally honest and that is more than we can say about the Harperites.

I would be happy for brutaly honest and realistic. Like stop giving money away to people and groups who don't need it. Gay pride parades, political parties ....etc etc.....

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I disagree. The reason a deficit exists isn't because Canadians don't pay enough taxes. That's ridiculous.

If Harper does intend to cut, tell us where.

If he ever does raise taxes, I hope he has the decency to resign if he makes a hard promise not to ever raise taxes. If he won't be pinned down on taxes and doesn't make that promise, I hope you have the decency to admit that it is weaseling out.

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If Harper does intend to cut, tell us where.

If he ever does raise taxes, I hope he has the decency to resign if he makes a hard promise not to ever raise taxes. If he won't be pinned down on taxes and doesn't make that promise, I hope you have the decency to admit that it is weaseling out.

Flaherty has already said that if cuts are necessary, they will come in the form of "reduced growth" where instead of a department getting 3% more than last year, they might get 1% or nothing. In other words, make do with what you have. Growth in government spending ranges from 3 to 7% a year. Call it a cut if you will - I call it restraint.

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Flaherty has already said that if cuts are necessary, they will come in the form of "reduced growth" where instead of a department getting 3% more than last year, they might get 1% or nothing. In other words, make do with what you have. Growth in government spending ranges from 3 to 7% a year. Call it a cut if you will - I call it restraint.

Put it to the Budget Officer. Have an outside audit. I want verification of this that it is going to work

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If Harper does intend to cut, tell us where.

If he ever does raise taxes, I hope he has the decency to resign if he makes a hard promise not to ever raise taxes. If he won't be pinned down on taxes and doesn't make that promise, I hope you have the decency to admit that it is weaseling out.

Ummm... the CPC aren't exactly known for keeping promises so........

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If Harper does intend to cut, tell us where.

If he ever does raise taxes, I hope he has the decency to resign if he makes a hard promise not to ever raise taxes. If he won't be pinned down on taxes and doesn't make that promise, I hope you have the decency to admit that it is weaseling out.

That may well prove to be, jdobbin. Still, to have Harper resign, turn us over to "the other guys" who then would likely raise taxes even higher would be just plain stupid!

BTW, shoving the debt onto the provinces counts as a tax raise, in my books.

How much was that raise in gas taxes that the Liberals used against Joe Clark? 18 cents a gallon, wasn't it? And after the Liberals used the idea to beat him in the next election, how much did they raise it?

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Ummm... the CPC aren't exactly known for keeping promises so........

True.

Given the success of the ad campaigns south of the border, I wonder if the Liberals will go that route in going after the Tories on things like not keeping to fixed elections, income trusts and deficits.

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That may well prove to be, jdobbin. Still, to have Harper resign, turn us over to "the other guys" who then would likely raise taxes even higher would be just plain stupid!

Yes, I expect that will be his response. The other guy is worse!

My advice is to keep blasting away at the Tory deficit plan. Make the Tories commit to third party scrutiny of their plan, I say.

BTW, shoving the debt onto the provinces counts as a tax raise, in my books.

So did shoving the debt to the municipalities.

Or just not doing any work at all.

The provinces felt confident expanding services as fast as they could when the Fed paid the bills.

How much was that raise in gas taxes that the Liberals used against Joe Clark? 18 cents a gallon, wasn't it? And after the Liberals used the idea to beat him in the next election, how much did they raise it?

You can blame Bill Davis for attacking Clark on that one.

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Put it to the Budget Officer. Have an outside audit. I want verification of this that it is going to work

At this stage there is no need for an audit - only a concept that would appear to have a reasonable effect on spending. There are too many unknowns to have an audit - it's rediculous. Until we know how the revenue side shapes up with the recovery, and whether we actually spend all of the stimulus money, we won't know how much "restraint" we'll need. Increased revenues and spending restraint are a good start. Raising taxes has its unknowns - when you raise corporate and/or personal taxes, it has a negative impact on revenues. So do you come right out of the blocks and raise taxes? Absolutely not.

Edited by Keepitsimple
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Increased revenues and spending restraint are a good start. Raising taxes has its unknowns - when you raise corporate and/or personal taxes, it has a negative impact on revenues. So do you come right out of the blocks and raise taxes? Absolutely not.

What you cut services, it has a negative impact as well. That is Harper's strategy. He seems convinced that revenues will leap and all this will go away. My guess is that the home renovation tax credit is going to be come a big boot to the soft soft when it comes to the deficit. It may have caused the recession to be less dreadful but when it ends, there will be a big bill and it may result in a slowdown in work in 2010. Even Flaherty is talking about a jobless recovery.

This deficit has to be talked about now because when we do come out of it, it may take several years or more to get back on track and by the time we do act on it, we could be in a new downturn.

I don't know that we can rely on explosive growth to end it fast.

By the way, the Budget Officer will report on any plan as that is his job. Unless Harper intends to fire the person, they hired, they had better expect their plan will produce a report.

Edited by jdobbin
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http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/091007/...natieff_deficit

We'll see how this debate goes.

I have said in the past that the conversation on ending the deficit has to deal with tax as well as cutbacks.

Dobbin. Do you really think this is a good idea to do? Dion tried to parade a tax it went horribly wrong. Ignatieff and the Liberals are tettering on the brink, if this doesn't go well it may well put Harper solidly into majority territory.

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Dobbin. Do you really think this is a good idea to do? Dion tried to parade a tax it went horribly wrong. Ignatieff and the Liberals are tettering on the brink, if this doesn't go well it may well put Harper solidly into majority territory.

Have an honest debate about it. If the Tories think they can get rid of the deficit in the next years, we better start hearing some more details other than some generic cuts. If they intend to eliminate entire programs, let's have some details.

Let the Budget Officer assess some of the plans.

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Have an honest debate about it. If the Tories think they can get rid of the deficit in the next years, we better start hearing some more details other than some generic cuts. If they intend to eliminate entire programs, let's have some details.

Let the Budget Officer assess some of the plans.

It's good that Ignatieff is tabling a plan after so long without one. I too am interested in what will be in it. Really the PM has no need to give details yet because they are already ahead of the Liberals when it comes to having a plan. Now that it appears that Ignatieff is days away from unveiling his plan in full, we hope, it will put pressure back on Harper to include those details if in fact Ignatieff unveils a plan.

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It's good that Ignatieff is tabling a plan after so long without one. I too am interested in what will be in it. Really the PM has no need to give details yet because they are already ahead of the Liberals when it comes to having a plan. Now that it appears that Ignatieff is days away from unveiling his plan in full, we hope, it will put pressure back on Harper to include those details if in fact Ignatieff unveils a plan.

We'll see if Harper can stay quiet on details. It is likely questions may come from some of the lobby groups as to what they will cut.

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I think Ignatieff started the rumour himself. Harper routinely sends out two messages, one to the grassroots and one to Tory-Grit swing voters. The "no new taxes" appeals to the large segement of Tory-Grit swing voters he desperately needs but the "adult conversation" appeals to grassroots and Greens. I say Greens because they statistically have much in common with Liberals when polled, they are younger, more educated, economically centrist and socially liberal. Contray to popular belief, polling has show Green supporter are for the most part actually not strident environmentalists but people upset with immature, dialetic and sloganistic nature of Canadian politics, hence Ignatieff presents a "mature conversation". It is just as essential Ignatieff gets them onboard as taking votes from the Tories, a lesson learnt the hard way by the Green Shift, though to be fair, carbon taxes were so 2007... now it's as popular as disco.

How will this "mature conversation" go. I for one don't want healthcare or education cuts. So what is left? Ending the unpopular war in Afghanistan, there is a few billion, then you have the Harper "childcare" plan, $100 a month to familes regardless of income. When it comes to family policy, it's a catch-22. Money for parents smooth out lifetime earnings while increasing family sizes reducing our children's burden of caring for the elderly by splitting it with more children. At the same time, more children will have to split the same limited resources in the future, particually land for housing. Here is the catch-22, this supposedly redistributive policy just drives up prices, creating new inequality and a society based more on inheritance than merit. So, cutting that is a couple extra billion dollars. You can privatize some of the auto sector, there is a couple billion and "cut" programs that were going to expire anyways.

As for tax increases, I am all for them. Why? Federal government debt burdens the public with heavy interest payments to the wealthly debt holders meanwhile I want universial healthcare, a modern education system, the social supports to provide opportunities for people to escape poverty and modern 21st century infrastructure. Higher taxes now means lower taxes and higher standard of living in the future for all in the future. Politicans claim our debt-to-GDP ratio is the lowest in the G8, but ignore the fact Canada is unique because of our massive provincial debts. Then, compare ourselves to economies more like our own. Australia had been public sector debt free for over a decade until the recession. All of the Scandinavian countires have very little debt and were running massive government budget surpluses until recently. Obiviously, Canadians need a mature conversation on fiscal policy.

Edited by crazykai
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All right then cut the government a check. If your all for high taxes, start leading by example.

If you are so against taxes, then get out of my country because you obiviously don't want to be part of it.

Good luck finding a tax free country... unless you want to work for an oil shiek or pay off your local warlord.

Edited by crazykai
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If you are so against taxes, then get out of my country because you obiviously don't want to be part of it.

Good luck finding a tax free country... unless you want to work for an oil shiek or pay off your local warlord.

Even those "taxhavens" are not all what they are cracked up to be, they make up taxes elsewhere to attack a certain residents or industries.

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If you are so against taxes, then get out of my country because you obiviously don't want to be part of it.

Good luck finding a tax free country... unless you want to work for an oil shiek or pay off your local warlord.

Wtf??? I am quite content with our low corporate tax rates, they could be lower in line with Ireland or Iceland. This isn't your country, I don't see fearless leader Crazykai statues anywhere. Your idea of a country flat out sucks, as heavy socialist countries are flat out failures. I and a great deal of Canadians are for lower taxes and lower spending. If you are spouting for high taxes and think the government knows how to spend ordinary Canadians paychecks better than ordinary Canadians, by all means cut the federal government your pay check.

Anyone who wants to screw over people who work hard and take risks because they are doing well is as big as a failure and joke as communism was.

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