Kevin Paige- PBO about to be fired by Harper.

[Mr.Canada]

"But Mr. Page has also deliberately violated his legislative mandate, and now he doesn't have a friend left in town, which has made him dangerously vulnerable to an angry bureaucracy and to his political masters.

"The old order is threatened. The old order is fighting back. The Parliamentary Budget Office is in clear and present danger of being gutted."

Source

He is clearly overstepping his bounds and needs to be silenced once and for all. We cannot allow this Liberal partisan to hijack the government process any longer.

Dump him now and dump him fast. If he had any desire to keep his career in Ottawa he should have learned to play ball. Sadly he didn't and will be made an example of.

Dump him fast before he does any further damage to the fragile Canadian psyche.

[Jack Weber]

He is clearly overstepping his bounds and needs to be silenced once and for all. We cannot allow this Liberal partisan to hijack the government process any longer.

Dump him now and dump him fast. If he had any desire to keep his career in Ottawa he should have learned to play ball. Sadly he didn't and will be made an example of.

Dump him fast before he does any further damage to the fragile Canadian psyche.

Typical Con,control freak bullies.

The truth was getting to Stevie TimBit,so it's easier to kill the messenger...

Edited October 3, 2009 by Jack Weber

[Mr.Canada]

Typical Con,control freak bullies.

The truth was getting to Stevie TimBit,so it's easier to kill the messenger...

Chretien was much worse and much more controlling then Harper ever could be as was Trudeau.

[msj]

Chretien was much worse and much more controlling then Harper ever could be as was Trudeau.

Yes, Chretien.

I remember those days.

From deficits to surpluses. It was grand.

Not to be seen again until 2015 (at least).

And even then, we will likely need the Liberals in power again to bring back fiscal sanity.

Truly sad.

[Mr.Canada]

Yes, Chretien.

I remember those days.

From deficits to surpluses. It was grand.

Not to be seen again until 2015 (at least).

And even then, we will likely need the Liberals in power again to bring back fiscal sanity.

Truly sad.

Taking $56 Billion from EI and depositing into General Revenue, the sale of Petro Canada plu8s much more. Yeah those were the days.

[msj]

Taking $56 Billion from EI and depositing into General Revenue, the sale of Petro Canada plu8s much more. Yeah those were the days.

Haven't seen Harper try to return it.

Oh, and we are running $55 billion deficits each year again.

Bravo, Harper, bravo.

[Mr.Canada]

Haven't seen Harper try to return it.

Oh, and we are running $55 billion deficits each year again.

Bravo, Harper, bravo.

That the Liberals, NDP and Bloq demanded. Did you forget that? All three parties were demanding stimulus spending or they would vote against the budget. Did you forget that?

[msj]

That the Liberals, NDP and Bloq demanded. Did you forget that? All three parties were demanding stimulus spending or they would vote against the budget. Did you forget that?

Sure, the opposition demands many things - the government is supposed to lead.

[Mr.Canada]

Pm HArper and the rest of our government team are really showing that they are the true visionaries of Canada. Ignoring the name calling and childish antics from the Liberals and the double speak from the Bloq and NDP in order to forge ahead. Creating a new day for the citizens of this great nation of Canada.

The PBO isn't helping our economic recovery by being negative and not supporting our PM. Our PM need s our support , let's give him our support Canada. He deserves it.

[punked]

Yes, Chretien.

I remember those days.

From deficits to surpluses. It was grand.

Not to be seen again until 2015 (at least).

And even then, we will likely need the Liberals in power again to bring back fiscal sanity.

Truly sad.

I hear Harper call Chretien more to ask for advise on what to do in Canada then Iggy does.

[punked]

Pm HArper and the rest of our government team are really showing that they are the true visionaries of Canada. Ignoring the name calling and childish antics from the Liberals and the double speak from the Bloq and NDP in order to forge ahead. Creating a new day for the citizens of this great nation of Canada.

The PBO isn't helping our economic recovery by being negative and not supporting our PM. Our PM need s our support , let's give him our support Canada. He deserves it.

Ohhh get off the high horse will ya.

[Argus]

Sure, the opposition demands many things - the government is supposed to lead.

This is inane, even for you people.

Let's remember that Chretien ran huge deficits too during the last recession. What put a stop that? The end of the last recession. As America's economy picked up and orders started flowing across the border, Canadians went back to work and tax money began to flow into the government with much greater volume.

I am not an admirer of Harper's finances. I do cut him some slack, however, because he's in a minority. There is NO question the Liberals would have acted any more financially responsiby, and we saw that the moment the Right got their act together and began to seriously threaten the government. Chretien opened the money taps and promises and dollars poured out all over the country - to the extent some thought that when Martin took over Chretien had left him no room to operate because he'd not only spent all the surplus but signed IOUs for the next several years. Well, Martin simply promised even more - though he lost anyway.

In short, comparing the spending of a government with a fat majority and no viable opposition in good economic times to a minority government in the midst of a recession is idiotic and pointless.

It doesn't matter whether they're Liberals or Tories. They're going to run deficits in the latter situation.

[waldo]

The PBO isn't helping our economic recovery by being negative and not supporting our PM. Our PM need s our support , let's give him our support Canada. He deserves it.

:lol: Perhaps you're confused!

The Parliamentary Budget Officer (PBO) supports Parliament and parliamentarians by providing independent, authoritative and non-partisan analysis relating to government budgets and spending estimates.For the Senate and the House of Commons, the PBO initiates analysis and research about the state of the nation’s finances, the spending estimates of the government and trends in the national economy. These reports will be released publicly on this site.At the request of parliamentary committees or individual parliamentarians, the PBO conducts research and provides analysis about the nation’s finances, the government's estimates, or the cost of proposals relating to matters within Parliament’s jurisdiction. These requests and reports will be released publicly only with the consent of the requesting parliamentarian or committee.

[msj]

This is inane, even for you people.

Let's remember that Chretien ran huge deficits too during the last recession. What put a stop that? The end of the last recession. As America's economy picked up and orders started flowing across the border, Canadians went back to work and tax money began to flow into the government with much greater volume.

Actually, Chretien never did run a deficit in a recession because the last recession in Canada was in 1990-1991.

Chretien came to power in late 1993.

So he was lucky.

So lucky, that he inherited a far larger debt and far larger deficit than Mulroney did from Trudeau.

At least Chretien had the balls to finish the job.

I am not an admirer of Harper's finances. I do cut him some slack, however, because he's in a minority.

Yes minority governments do lead politicians to play politics at a pathetic level as compared to majority governments.

Harper's budgets have been absolutely horrific thanks to his playing politics over principle.

There is NO question the Liberals would have acted any more financially responsiby, and we saw that the moment the Right got their act together and began to seriously threaten the government. Chretien opened the money taps and promises and dollars poured out all over the country - to the extent some thought that when Martin took over Chretien had left him no room to operate because he'd not only spent all the surplus but signed IOUs for the next several years. Well, Martin simply promised even more - though he lost anyway.

Hmmmm, strange thing - Chretien stopped running deficts back in '97/'98.

Sure, he eventually increased spending - as he should have since he cut it so deeply. He also cut income taxes.

As for Martin - if Chretien left him so little room to maneuver then maybe he shouldn't have cut taxes in 2005.

As for Harper, we know he briefly increased the income tax rate for 2006 before slightly coming to his senses and lowering it again (back to 15% for the lowest bracket).

Harper also has been spending like a drunken liberal ever since and none of his lack of discipline can be blamed on Chretien or Martin. (Well, maybe by partisan CPC hacks but not by anyone else).

In short, comparing the spending of a government with a fat majority and no viable opposition in good economic times to a minority government in the midst of a recession is idiotic and pointless.

It doesn't matter whether they're Liberals or Tories. They're going to run deficits in the latter situation.

Sure, I do expect a deficit during a recession whether it is a minority or majority government.

I just don't think $55 billion annual deficits and deficits running to at least 2015 (and more likely 2018) shows any kind of financial acumen or credibility.

[Keepitsimple]

This is not all about Harper - the man who actually created the position through legislation in the first place. The speakers of the house and senate - both Liberals - told Mr. Page he was out of line. He is not conforming to the law - period.

But Mr. Page is also his own worst enemy. He refuses to acknowledge that, under the enabling legislation, he is subordinate to the parliamentary librarian, currently William Young. He refuses to distinguish between reports that his own office commissions, which can be made public, and reports commissioned by parliamentarians, which by legislation and convention should be kept confidential.

“I think Mr. Page went down to Washington and saw the Congressional Budget Office and thought, ‘This is what we should be doing,' ” Senator Sharon Carstairs of Manitoba said. “And maybe it is what he should be doing. But as parliamentarians, we are sworn to uphold the laws of Parliament. And this is not his legislative mandate.”

Earlier this year, the speakers of the House of Commons and the Senate made the same complaint to Mr. Page, and a million dollars disappeared from his $2.8-million planned budget. Then a joint Senate-House committee co-chaired by Ms. Carstairs looked into the imbroglio. It recommended that the million dollars be returned, in exchange for Mr. Page subordinating himself to the parliamentary librarian and promising to keep reports commissioned by members of Parliament confidential.

Mr. Page submitted his response this week, which politely said: Get lost.

[Smallc]

The speakers of the house and senate - both Liberals

No, the Speaker of the Senate is a Conservative, appointed by the Governor General on the Advice of the Prime Minister

Edited October 3, 2009 by Smallc

[Argus]

Actually, Chretien never did run a deficit in a recession because the last recession in Canada was in 1990-1991.

Chretien came to power in late 1993

Regardless. He had several years of huge deficits before the rebounding economy was able to help the goverment out of its financial problems.

So he was lucky.

So lucky, that he inherited a far larger debt and far larger deficit than Mulroney did from Trudeau.

At least Chretien had the balls to finish the job.

First, most of Mulroney's contribution to the debt came about due to payments on the debt Trudeau ran up. We're talking here, about interest rates which were deep into double digits. The cost to service 100b in debt when interest rates are 15% is $15b per year - just in interest. And the debt Trudeau created and left behind was a good deal higher. In the midst of stagflation, he faced both a huge drop in government income and a huge surge in debt payments due to the skyrocketing interest rates.

Saying Mulroney didn't have the "balls" to get out of it while Chretien did is imbecilic. Mulroney did not have the advantage of an end to the world recession, tumbling interest rates and a huge surge in tax revenue that Chretien benefited from.

And by the way, I'm saying this as someone whose opinion is that Mulroney was a pompous political weasel and crook.

Harper also has been spending like a drunken liberal ever since and none of his lack of discipline can be blamed on Chretien or Martin.

Did you see me blame it on them? I merely said that they would have done no better faced with the same political situation. We do not, of course, know how Harper would have done with a huge majority and no real political opposition.

Sure, I do expect a deficit during a recession whether it is a minority or majority government.

I just don't think $55 billion annual deficits and deficits running to at least 2015 (and more likely 2018) shows any kind of financial acumen or credibility.

I'm not happy about it either, but again, most of that is due to the incentive program the other parties absolutely insisted on, virtually at gunpoint, so to think they would do any better is pretty silly.

[Keepitsimple]

No, the Speaker of the Senate is a Conservative, appointed by the Governor General on the Advice of the Prime Minister

Darn, I thought I might be wrong on that....should have checked. Thanks.

[Bryan]

I'm really torn about wether getting rid of paige is a good idea.

One one hand, he clearly has overtstepped his bounds on several occasions. He's being more of an activist predicting just about anything that contradicts the government instead of reporting facts.

On the other hand, I don't think the optics would be good at all. Even if replacing him is totally justified, you know that is not the spin that the CBC, CTV, Globe and Mail, Toronto Star, etc will put on it. They'll claim it's "a lack of transparency", laced with copious crazy quotes from moonbat opposition MPs like Hedy Fry and Thomas Mulcair.

[msj]

Mulroney did do a good job of tackling the structural deficit (and to his credit).

He did so by raising taxes for most people (capital gains, tinkering with income rates, de-indexing tax brackets, GST) and this is to his credit (IMO).

Chretien had to finish the job - he had to make the really painful cuts that the NDP still like to whine about.

If Mulroney had the balls to do what Chretien did through 94-98 then I would have no problem calling him one of our greatest PM's ever.

He didn't though.

He merely set the stage for Chretien to finish the job - and, to his credit, he did finish the job.

Too bad Harper has to unravel it all.

BTW, Mulroney did have the benefit, albeit briefly, of falling interest rates and an improving economy. Interest rates started to decline in '85 but went back up again in the late 80's in order to fight inflation (which also helped start the 90/91 recession).

Unlucky to some extent.

I will also add that Harper has been a beneficiary of low interest rates and we still have gone into deficits that appear to be with us even when economic growth returns.

One more thing - this really has gotten away from the OP for which I apologize.

I would prefer to see Page gone, a credible replacement found, and firming of the mandate for the PBO to be closer to the US CBO which also means an increase to the PBO's budget.

This office should be there for all Canadians to hold the government (whatever their political stripes) to account.

Clearly it does not do that now.

Edited October 3, 2009 by msj

[August1991]

One more thing - this really has gotten away from the OP for which I apologize.

I would prefer to see Page gone, a credible replacement found, and firming of the mandate for the PBO to be closer to the US CBO which also means an increase to the PBO's budget.

It is extremely naive to believe that a PBO (or the CBO) can offer an "independent" opinion. No politician can tolerate losing control of such an issue.

It is misleading to believe that a PBO will be a deus ex machina that can somehow pronounce the objective truth. This is politics and there will always be spin, angles and lobbying. Too many interests are involved. The PBO is just another player.

IMV, we should let parliament operate as it is designed. Opposition parties have the resources to research and criticize the government's budget and spending. In addition, we have an independent media that can also investigate. There are independent (not funded by government) lobby groups that publish research reports.

[Jack Weber]

Pm HArper and the rest of our government team are really showing that they are the true visionaries of Canada. Ignoring the name calling and childish antics from the Liberals and the double speak from the Bloq and NDP in order to forge ahead. Creating a new day for the citizens of this great nation of Canada.

The PBO isn't helping our economic recovery by being negative and not supporting our PM. Our PM need s our support , let's give him our support Canada. He deserves it.

Nothing like blind,partisan worship....

[jdobbin]

It is extremely naive to believe that a PBO (or the CBO) can offer an "independent" opinion. No politician can tolerate losing control of such an issue.

So Harper was wrong to have created the position?

[Keepitsimple]

So Harper was wrong to have created the position?

No.....he just hired the wrong guy.

[Jack Weber]

So Harper was wrong to have created the position?

No he was'nt wrong.It was all in keeping with the con idea's of accountability.The problem is that the PBO is keeping the current gov't accountable and our "accountability" PM does'nt like it!