Don't Agree with Another Election? Sign the Petition

[Wild Bill]

This election will be a pointless exercise.

The way the polls are looking it will be another conservative minority with fewer seats... so pretty much the same as we have now. The other option is a Liberal minority that will be taken down within another year from the election.

A doubt there is any chance of a majority in either direction this time around.

I don't see how we have enough data at the moment to support the opinion that the only possible outcome is another minority. We still haven't finished summer. Polls historically don't move much when people are still into barbeques and beer! I say again (and again and again!) most Canadians are NOT political junkies like posters on MLW!

By the time the writ is dropped, ANYTHING can happen! If there's one thing we've seen over the years, things can change almost instantly during a campaign. Look what happened to John Tory in Ontario, last provincial election.

The vote can be won or lost on one event, like stumbling when descending an airplane staircase or failing to catch a football. A scandal or a piece of dirt from a candidate's past can be revealed, stopping his momentum dead in its tracks.

The Liberals still haven't revealed much of their campaign plans. True, it makes sense to keep your cards close to your chest before the game actually starts. Liberals know all about stealing campaign planks from your opponents. However, that leaves political seers and prophets totally in the dark. When we haven't yet seen those plans how can we accurately predict if the majority of Canadians will like or believe them? Have you forgotten how the "Green Shift" under Dion fell "like leaden farts upon the stage", to quote a Firesign Theater spoof of Shakespeare?

Me, I'm gonna wait some more before I put MY money down! I too have my wishes but it's a sucker who lets his wishes dictate his sense of the value of his hand.

[Topaz]

This is why we need an election and an new leader for the Tories........................... http://www.canada.com/business/Spending+pr...3884/story.html

[DrGreenthumb]

Its long past time to rid this country of its Harper problem. Anybody got a giant sized tube of Preparation -H? GOOD Canadians are tired of Harper's patenalistic authoritarian attitude, we pride ourselves on our moderness and our freedoms, both of which are under constant attack by the Harper bunch.

I can Hardly believe that even Harper would give a 600,000 dollar grant to the schizo society to study the effects of Cannabis when the CEO of said society is not a doctor but a christian fundamentalist preacher.

Throw these friggin cave dwellers out of ottawa once and for all.

[Alta4ever]

Its long past time to rid this country of its Harper problem. Anybody got a giant sized tube of Preparation -H? GOOD Canadians are tired of Harper's patenalistic authoritarian attitude, we pride ourselves on our moderness and our freedoms, both of which are under constant attack by the Harper bunch.

I can Hardly believe that even Harper would give a 600,000 dollar grant to the schizo society to study the effects of Cannabis when the CEO of said society is not a doctor but a christian fundamentalist preacher.

Throw these friggin cave dwellers out of ottawa once and for all.

Its long past time to rid this country of its liberal party of Canada problem

[punked]

Its long past time to rid this country of its liberal party of Canada problem

Amen

[jschell]

Tell me iscshell, did you want an election the first time? the second time, how about the last election did you want it? Why is okay for Harper to call an election when it suits him but not when he may lose this one? He made Oct 9th election day so lets get it done and over with!

To be honest, I didn't want any of those elections either. This is addressed to the Opposition since they have the means and intent to bring down the government rather than work with it and solve the issues facing Canada. The same petition would be in place if the roles were reversed and the Liberals were in power and the Conservatives were the Opposition.

All I am trying to do is let the opposition know that while they say Canadians want this, not all of them do.

[Molly]

This is addressed to the Opposition since they have the means and intent to bring down the government rather than work with it and solve the issues facing Canada.

It takes two to tango.

Conservatives don't dance.

[jschell]

How did this guy get to start a thread? I thought new members had to post 5 times in existing threads before starting a new one themselves.

Bring on the next election; hopefully we can get a majority this time so we don't have to go through this again in a year's time. (A Liberal majority, that is.)

Actually it was quite easy, I pressed the big button that said "New Topic"

[jschell]

This is addressed to the Opposition since they have the means and intent to bring down the government rather than work with it and solve the issues facing Canada.

It takes two to tango.

Conservatives don't dance.

Yes, yes it does. However since the Conservatives are the party in power, they should be calling the tune. Would you expect any less if the Liberals or NDP had formed the government? The opposition parties are there to keep things in check, not to derail the parliamentary process by opposing everything the governing party does and plot to bring them down.

Aside from a few very vocal people on this forum, I believe that the average Canadian does not want to go to the polls again. If we do, it will likely end up in a status quo, sides may change but essentially we will be in the same place.

What purpose does that serve?

[Molly]

I figure the Conservatives ARE calling the tune.

They could easily set a tone of co-operation-- by consulting, compromising from time to time. Minor civility to the NDP, and the smallest of (popular) concessions would easily ensure the stability of this government, just as one example.

They choose, instead, to be confrontational, obstructionist, and to 'play chicken', full time.

I have no respect for that approach. I think it's extraordinarily poor governance. It's unresponsive to national desires/interests, places 'partyinterest' ahead of ' national interest'.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Molly

[Alta4ever]

I figure the Conservatives ARE calling the tune.

They could easily set a tone of co-operation-- by consulting, compromising from time to time. Minor civility to the NDP, and the smallest of (popular) concessions would easily ensure the stability of this government, just as one example.

They choose, instead, to be confrontational, obstructionist, and to 'play chicken', full time.

I have no respect for that approach. I think it's extraordinarily poor governance. It's unresponsive to national desires/interests, places 'partyinterest' ahead of ' national interest'.

You do realize that their is very little comon ground between the conservatives and the other parties right?

[jdobbin]

All I am trying to do is let the opposition know that while they say Canadians want this, not all of them do.

I bet if you asked Canadians if they wanted an election on the day the fixed term ended you would probably find a majority didn't want it. Heck, you probably could get a majority to say they didn't want to have any elections at all ever.

[jdobbin]

You do realize that their is very little comon ground between the conservatives and the other parties right?

You do realized that it is a minority and that if little common ground can be found that the government loses confidence and it is an election or the Governor General asks the net party if they can run the government, right?

You are basically saying "my way or the highway."

[Alta4ever]

You are basically saying "my way or the highway."

Yep and I think the liberals really don't want to go to the polls, who ever is the instigator of bringing this government down will suffer at the polls the people of this country are tired of have so many elections.

[jdobbin]

Yep and I think the liberals really don't want to go to the polls, who ever is the instigator of bringing this government down will suffer at the polls the people of this country are tired of have so many elections.

Historically, can you show me when that has ever happened federally where the party was defeated by those angry for having an election?

I know you think everyone is blameless and that only the Liberals are at fault but why is it that the Liberals are the only ones to bend?

[Smallc]

Yes, yes it does. However since the Conservatives are the party in power, they should be calling the tune.

We have a parliamentary democracy, and the Conservatives only have a plurality of seats within it. They can call the tune all they want, but they can't play all by themselves, since they don't have all the instruments. They need to cooperate, and they don't.

[nicky10013]

This is addressed to the Opposition since they have the means and intent to bring down the government rather than work with it and solve the issues facing Canada.

It takes two to tango.

Conservatives don't dance.

Bob Rae actually had a pretty funny comment.

"On Harper's grade 2 report card, the comments read: "Inattentive, doesn't play well with others."

[jschell]

We have a parliamentary democracy, and the Conservatives only have a plurality of seats within it. They can call the tune all they want, but they can't play all by themselves, since they don't have all the instruments. They need to cooperate, and they don't.

You know just the comments on this post alone illustrate the exact reason parliament isn't working People are just far enough off center in either direction to not see eye to eye on anything despite sharing a lot of the same views.

To address some of the other comments...

jdobbin: Yes, I am sure if you asked Canadians if they wanted an election on the day the fixed term ended, they'd likely say no. However, I think we would become accustomed to it since it is "time" for the election according to legislation as opposed to politicians playing partisan games and forcing an election when one isn't entirely necessary.

Smallc: I agree 100%, it takes cooperation from all sides, that being said it is hard to work with people that are plotting against you and have gone on record as saying that they will vote against anything the government proposes (NDP). 3 months after the last election the three parties refused to accept the results and tried to act against the government to bring it down. Personally, I think that was a desperate act by Stephan Dion because of his poor showing in the polls and the encouragement from Jack Layton. Dion was a weak ineffectual leader as history has shown. Ignatieff is not appearing to be much better, but time will tell. Since Jean Chretien stepped down, the Liberal party has been in decline, due in part to Paul Martin's alienation of a number of strong Liberal party members but I digress. Perhaps the Conservatives would be more willing to give concessions on policy if there wasn't such a hostile "give me what I want, or we'll defeat you" kind of attitude.

Quite frankly, all 4 leaders need a good bitch slap to knock some sense into them. There are many more important issues than partisan politics to consider.

[wulf42]

Thank you time to vote someone in who has tried to bring the boys home the whole time. The Liberals have done nothing but supported the Afghan mission time for the NDP.

Oh yes that is all we need Taliban Jack.......lol............. Good God!

[Smallc]

3 months after the last election the three parties refused to accept the results and tried to act against the government to bring it down.

Oh but that's not what happened at all. It is the Conservatives who refused to accept the minority position that they were given. Keep in mind that I voted Conservative, although I do lean towards liberal values.

[jdobbin]

3 months after the last election the three parties refused to accept the results and tried to act against the government to bring it down.

You realize that the Tories acted without the confidence of the House. In a minority, this either means election or the Governor General can ask the next party to form a government.

It seems that you are against our system of government in general. Do think that even with a minority, a government have term limits as part of the Constitution?

[jschell]

You realize that the Tories acted without the confidence of the House. In a minority, this either means election or the Governor General can ask the next party to form a government.

It seems that you are against our system of government in general. Do think that even with a minority, a government have term limits as part of the Constitution?

Well thank you for that lesson in Canadian politics, I am aware of the process, and for the record, I am non partisan...I have voted Liberal, Conservative (even when they were Progressive) and NDP. No, I am not against the Canadian system of government, however I do feel that term limits would be a good idea perhaps not 4 years but at least 2 for a minority. Let's face it, no matter who is sitting in the Prime Minister's seat, a minority government does not work. All we get is a constant back and forth power struggle, what happens to the markets and the economy though all of this? Investors do not like uncertainty and having constant elections making it unhealthy for the economy, the threat of an election every other month is no better.

All I am trying to do is let the leaders of the opposition know that perhaps now is not the right time to explore this option with our economy showing signs of recovery.

[Smallc]

Proposing term limits on a minority (and term limits in general) shows that you really don't understand all that much about the system of government that we have. Term limits on minorities are a nonsensical proposition. It's also important to note that term limits would not rule out coalitions forming in between elections and would in fact make them more plausible. The government could be defeated without parliament being dissolved and someone would have to be able to maintain confidence. I'm not sure you've thought things through all that well in this case. Our system is set up as is for a reason, and you can't simply change one part and expect it to keep working well.

[Molly]

All I am trying to do is let the leaders of the opposition know that perhaps now is not the right time to explore this option with our economy showing signs of recovery.

Why just the leaders of the opposition? Especially since they all need to be 'bitch-slapped', and especially since the opposition leaders not the ones who set this tone of non-co-operation, non- consultation?

Opposition members and parties have every bit as much responsibility to represent the folks who elected them as do Conservative MPs. That's why we bother to send them; that's why they get paychecks, and are expected to attend.

To be honest, we voters are the ones answerable for this mess. We chose hyperpartisans, instead of parliamentarians... and if we send hyperpartisan fools with greater loyalty to their parties than to the national interest, then that's what we get: no compromise, high-risk showdowns, and election after election until we, the voters, make some better choices.

[jschell]

Why just the leaders of the opposition? Especially since they all need to be 'bitch-slapped', and especially since the opposition leaders not the ones who set this tone of non-co-operation, non- consultation?

Opposition members and parties have every bit as much responsibility to represent the folks who elected them as do Conservative MPs. That's why we bother to send them; that's why they get paychecks, and are expected to attend.

To be honest, we voters are the ones answerable for this mess. We chose hyperpartisans, instead of parliamentarians... and if we send hyperpartisan fools with greater loyalty to their parties than to the national interest, then that's what we get: no compromise, high-risk showdowns, and election after election until we, the voters, make some better choices.

Why just the leaders of the opposition? Because they are the ones who have made their minds up that this is the course of action that needs to be taken. They haven't even tried to work with the government. Some one had said that the Conservatives have taken a "our way or the highway" kind of attitude, from where I stand the Liberals and the NDP have been doing this all along. The Conservatives agreed to quarterly "report cards" on the economy and stimulus being spent. So far they have been accused of not spending enough and spending too much by the same people. How is that cooperative?

Is Stephen Harper God? Not a chance. Are the Conservatives flawless and perfect? No not at all, but they have been trying. I think you have it partly right, except instead of loyalty to their parties, it is more like they are power hungry and wanting to be the PM or to advance their own standing.

Smallc: I understand the Canadian parliamentary process just fine, thank you for your concern. I am not suggesting pure anarchy and throw away our system of government. I AM suggesting that perhaps if the kids can't play nice and get along, maybe they need a timeout to force them to look at the welfare of the country and Canadians, not just themselves. Quite frankly, THAT is more important than parliamentary procedure.

Edited September 7, 2009 by jschell