Why conservatives are angry at the criminal justice system

[Argus]

I say that because of the field of work that I'm in. Common sense isn't something that we i n the Workplace Safety and Health profession generally believe in. We can never assume that anything is common knowledge.

That's called having no standards. You don't want to judge anyone, don't want to hold anyone responsible for their own stupidity. Fine for you. Conservatives tend to be somewhat different.

[Smallc]

No, I do judge people. I don't take you as an authority on the law at all. A judge, or a lawyer though I'm much more likely to put faith in. I'm also much more likely to put faith in the decision of multiple people who have some expertise in the area. What I think on an issue that I have little experience with is irrelevant.

[Mr.Canada]

Our legal system in this country is a joke. We need longer sentences or at least the freedom for judges to hand out longer sentences. Adult and the YOA(or w/e they call it now) are a joke. Immigrants come here and laugh at our liberal ways and take advantage of our laws as do many others.

We need to stiffen the penalties and bring back the death penalty for murder that can be proven by DNA or eyewitness evidence by two or more people.

[Smallc]

We need longer sentences or at least the freedom for judges to hand out longer sentences.

They already have that freedom.

[tango]

Our legal system in this country is a joke. We need longer sentences or at least the freedom for judges to hand out longer sentences. Adult and the YOA(or w/e they call it now) are a joke. Immigrants come here and laugh at our liberal ways and take advantage of our laws as do many others.

We need to stiffen the penalties and bring back the death penalty for murder that can be proven by DNA or eyewitness evidence by two or more people.

Another gem from the fount of MrC's mouth, with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

And you wonder why nobody takes you seriously?

[Mr.Canada]

Another gem from the fount of MrC's mouth, with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

And you wonder why nobody takes you seriously?

So our justice system is well run?

Gangbangers shooting people or getting caught with guns then out on bail. This is an example of a well run justice system to you?

Killers under the age of 15 getting 3-4 years in custody. This is another example of a well run system?

According to you it is.

They already have that freedom.

No they don't they cannot lock people up for 3 consecutive life sentences or 400 years in jail. After some thug murders someone they're out in 25 years. This is justice for the families affected?

Edited August 31, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[tango]

I really don't know what all the whining is about:

from Molly's link:

Canada has always had high incarceration rates compared to those of other countries. [except the US] To

some extent, this is due to variations in the age of majority among countries and different

classifications of prison sentences. However, simply put, Canada relies heavily on

prisons, and we incarcerate at a rate of 130 of every 100,000 adult and juvenile

Canadians (Canada, Solicitor General Canada, Corrections Population Growth, 1996,

p.2).

Table 1 compares Canada's incarceration rate with those of some other western countries.

The public seems to believe that crime continues to escalate in Canada, although this is

not supported by police statistics or victimization surveys. As a result, there have been

calls for both mandatory minimum sentences and longer sentences, and Canada has seen

significant increases in prison populations.

Canada has somewhat higher levels of property crimes than other countries, and far lower

levels of violent crime. More than half (58%) of all Criminal Code infractions reported to

police in 1995 were for property offences -- a figure that has changed little over the years.

Examples of property offences include break- and-enter, theft, fraud, motor vehicle theft,

and possession of stolen goods. A considerable percentage of crimes (30%) belongs in

the "Other" category, covering such offences as mischief, prostitution, possession of

restricted weapons, and arson. In reality, in 1995 only 11% of crimes reported to police

involved violence.

Now, if someone wants to provide evidence that the situation has changed since 1995, I'm willing to listen. Ranting and whining without evidence, however, is just stupid.

[Mr.Canada]

Are you too scared to reply to my questions Tango?

Just 2 summers ago almost all of those gangsters arrested on gun charges were out on bail. Jamestown, Toronto gang.

Theres no point in me posting stats because you'll just shoot them down so what's the point for me to waste my time?

Edited August 31, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[Mr.Canada]

Youth gang rapists out on bail

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/new...all-out-on-bail

Triple murderer out on Bail

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Calgary+...0303/story.html

Indian gangster out on bail for Drug and gun charges

http://blog.taragana.com/n/indian-origin-y...-gang-war-8675/

This is appauling and the PM is trying to get some Bail reform going but is stalled at every turn bu the Liberals and other left wingers. I guess they enjoy the rest of Canada living in fear and slapping criminals on the wrists. These politicians who vote against judicial reforms should be sued when someone out on bail kills someone else.

Murder suspect was out on bail

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandg...102666-sun.html

House arrest in assault cases

Another triple murder suspect released on Bail.

http://immigrationcaqc.blogspot.com/2009/0...ut-on-bail.html

Edited August 31, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[Topaz]

If the Tories start to put everyone in jail then our tax dollars are going to increase for building more prisons and keeping these guys in there.Too many people getting killed? Stop the guns from coming into Canada, customs has to do a better job at the border.

[Argus]

In reality, in 1995 only 11% of crimes reported to police

involved violence.[/i]

Now, if someone wants to provide evidence that the situation has changed since 1995, I'm willing to listen. Ranting and whining without evidence, however, is just stupid.

I'm curious about why you think that matters. It is not the rate of violent crime which some find aggravating, but the lack of proper and just punishment to those who commit it, especially the most severe violence.

[Smallc]

You do realize that people who are out on bail have not yet been found guilty of a crime related to the charges or probably any other violent crime, right? Or do you believe in guilt until proof of innocence?

Edited August 31, 2009 by Smallc

[Argus]

They already have that freedom.

Not really. They're bound by precedent in sentencing. It doesn't matter that a given crime carries a scale which could reach 10 years if previous precedents say that the crime should only be given 3 years. A judge who decided to hand out a 10 year sentence will find it overturned on appeal.

[Mr.Canada]

If the Tories start to put everyone in jail then our tax dollars are going to increase for building more prisons and keeping these guys in there.Too many people getting killed? Stop the guns from coming into Canada, customs has to do a better job at the border.

Accused cop shooter was out on bail

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2009/08/...434716-sun.html

There I gave a few examples, if that's not enough I can give you a lot more. Our system needs to fixed. Why is it so bad to say that?

Edited August 31, 2009 by Mr.Canada

[Smallc]

Not really. They're bound by precedent in sentencing.

They can give linger sentences if they really want. Each case is different and an overturn on appeal may or may not be granted based on the circumstances.. Now it seems that you have a problem with common law...oh joy.

Edited August 31, 2009 by Smallc

[Argus]

If the Tories start to put everyone in jail then our tax dollars are going to increase for building more prisons and keeping these guys in there.Too many people getting killed? Stop the guns from coming into Canada, customs has to do a better job at the border.

That would involve taking on the Mohawk warriors, who are the major organization responsible for smuggling guns through the reserves into Canada.

[Argus]

They can give linger sentences if they really want. Now it seems that you have a problem with common law...oh joy.

Lacking your ability to turn my brain off and whistle carelessly because of mindless trust in authorities, I find injustice problematic, yes.

[Smallc]

So you dislike the entire foundation of our legal system....interesting.

[tango]

Youth gang rapists out on bail

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/new...all-out-on-bail

Triple murderer out on Bail

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Calgary+...0303/story.html

Indian gangster out on bail for Drug and gun charges

http://blog.taragana.com/n/indian-origin-y...-gang-war-8675/

This is appauling and the PM is trying to get some Bail reform going but is stalled at every turn bu the Liberals and other left wingers. I guess they enjoy the rest of Canada living in fear and slapping criminals on the wrists. These politicians who vote against judicial reforms should be sued when someone out on bail kills someone else.

Murder suspect was out on bail

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandg...102666-sun.html

House arrest in assault cases

Another triple murder suspect released on Bail.

http://immigrationcaqc.blogspot.com/2009/0...ut-on-bail.html

So you are arguing for bail reform. I agree it should be reviewed.

Two of your links are about the same case of gang killings of other gang members.

As long as they keep the gang wars off the streets, though, do you really care when they pop each other?

The young offenders rape case ... I suspect they are under virtual house arrest. Since they know now they can't get away with it, do you really think they'll reoffend before their trial? Those are the things the judge considers in setting bail.

I don't disagree with bail reform. I would like to see a proper review to see how much of a problem there is - ie, How many people reoffend while out on bail.

Edited August 31, 2009 by tango

[Mr.Canada]

So you are arguing for bail reform. I agree it should be reviewed.

Two of your links are about the same case of gang killings of other gang members.

As long as they keep the gang wars off the streets, though, do you really care when they pop each other?

The young offenders rape case ... I suspect they are under virtual house arrest. Since they know now they can't get away with it, do you really think they'll reoffend before their trial? Those are the things the judge considers in setting bail.

I don't disagree with bail reform. I would like to see a proper review to see how much of a problem there is - ie, How many people reoffend while out on bail.

It isn't the point if whether they'll re-offend before trial, I surely hope not. They should locked up until trial. How does the victim who goes to the same school deal with seeing her rapists everyday?

This is terrible. Those who break the law using violence should be barred from getting any sort of bail. 1 person reoffending and victimizing society again is 1 too many imo.

[wulf42]

In Canada you would get more time for Jacking a Deer than murdering another person!

Canada has the most idiotic criminal laws on Earth unless of course your the criminal

then you can be reasonably assured your going to walk...........thank the Liberals

for that!

[Mr.Canada]

In Canada you would get more time for Jacking a Deer than murdering another person!

Canada has the most idiotic criminal laws on Earth unless of course your the criminal

then you can be reasonably assured your going to walk...........thank the Liberals

for that!

Yep, that's for sure. You get caught jacking deer and they take your truck, your guns , your house then a huge fine and jail time after that. Real crime gets a slap on wrist, it's really sad that people have fallen for these con artists.

[waldo]

Those who break the law using violence should be barred from getting any sort of bail. 1 person reoffending and victimizing society again is 1 too many imo.

those who are granted bail... are still only accused of a crime - notwithstanding bail conditions that may be considered. Are you seriously advocating the outright abolition of bail for accused persons... if the circumstances surrounding the accusation may involve violence?