What Should be an Example for Quebec

[Smallc]

The election was about hope more than anything I would say, something that your country needed.

[jbg]

The election was about hope more than anything I would say, something that your country needed.

Quite true as well.

The trigger for the special need for "hope" however was the financial meltdown and the panic engendered by the fact that none of the Washington actors knew what to do about it.

[Dave_ON]

I wouldn't say that such a statement is all that true. Though Americans very much think of themselves as one people, they seem to be very divided along partisan lines. Americans are also very much divided along urban and rural lines.

I think that John Stewart put it best:

"Everyone knows Republicans love America, they just hate half the people living in it."

I would also contend that despite JBG's protestations Americans are still very much divided along the mason-dixon line as well. It has been my experience that the southerners still refer to many northerners as yankees. A term that Canadians often inaccurately use to refer to all Americans. The cultural disparity between north and south and even east and west is palpable.

[Smallc]

Yes, the difference is that Americans are flag wavers....but that seems to be something that Canadians have become of late as well.

[Jack Weber]

Freedom has a price.

I trust you would revert to a system where racial minorities are enslaved then, mere property of their owners. How very progressive.

Where people are not allowed to maximize their potential, but are instead treated at best as mere servants, at worst as animals. Where children can be sold off by their parents "owners" to be enslaved on a distant property, because the highest bidder was willing to pay good money for them.

Would your world be one where a genius such as George Washington Carver (link about him, excerpts below) had to duck out of speaking engagements by a secreted entrance just because he was black? Is that a "progressive" or left-wing view of the world?

No, it is a world view that those who fought for one nation hated with every ounce of their being. Should the world be one where lifelong, English-speaking Montrealers cannot display signage on their own businesses in their own language?

The people who fought for the Union, in the U.S., wanted a world where people were Americans, and had rights as Americans. And that's a world I'd like to see.

Excerpts, as promised, about a great man:

It is rare to find a man of the caliber of George Washington Carver. A man who would decline an invitation to work for a salary of more than $100,000 a year (almost a million today) to continue his research on behalf of his countrymen.

Agricultural Chemistry

As an agricultural chemist, Carver discovered three hundred uses for peanuts and hundreds more uses for soybeans, pecans and sweet potatoes. Among the listed items that he suggested to southern farmers to help them economically were his recipes and improvements to/for: adhesives, axle grease, bleach, buttermilk, chili sauce, fuel briquettes, ink, instant coffee, linoleum, mayonnaise, meat tenderizer, metal polish, paper, plastic, pavement, shaving cream, shoe polish, synthetic rubber, talcum powder and wood stain.

*********************

Early Life

George Washington Carver was born in 1864 near Diamond Grove, Missouri on the farm of Moses Carver. He was born into difficult and changing times near the end of the Civil War. The infant George and his mother kidnapped by Confederate night-raiders and possibly sent away to Arkansas.

*******************

Education

He began his formal education at the age of twelve, which required him to leave the home of his adopted parents. Schools segregated by race at that time with no school available for black students near Carver's home.

*******************

Honors and Awards

George Washington Carver was bestowed an honorary doctorate from Simpson College in 1928. He was an honorary member of the Royal Society of Arts in London, England. In 1923, he received the Spingarn Medal given every year by the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. In 1939, he received the Roosevelt medal for restoring southern agriculture. On July 14, 1943, U.S. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt honored Carver with a national monument dedicated to his accomplishments. The area of Carver's childhood near Diamond Grove, Missouri preserved as a park, this park was the first designated national monument to an African American in the United States.

"He could have added fortune to fame, but caring for neither, he found happiness and honor in being helpful to the world." - Epitaph on the grave of George Washington Carver.

George Washington Carvers progressivity(is that a word?) aside...uh...your quote...

"People who fought for the Union,in the U.S.,wanted a world where people were Americans,and had rights as Americans."...

I'm an avid US Civil War "fan".If you think the people who fought for the Union were any less bigoted than folks in the Confederacy,I got news for ya'.If you asked the average Union soldier about what he was fighting for in 1861 or '62(before Antietam),he would probably say he was fighting for the preservation of the union and to stamp out secession.A Confederate soldier of the same time period would probably say he was fighting for States rights and from opression from the heavy hand of the federal gov't.Fighting for the freedom of slaves would not have crossed the minds of 70 to 80 % of the union military.Remember,U.S. Grant was asked how can he fight for the Union while his family owned slaves...He said nonchalantly,"It's hard to get good help.",William Tecumseh Sherman is famously quoted as saying,"The only good indian is a DEAD indian!".

As far as the world being American...I'll take being Canadian,thanks...

[Jack Weber]

Yes, the difference is that Americans are flag wavers....but that seems to be something that Canadians have become of late as well.

Some Canucks have become very good with the bumper sticker sloganeering,have'nt they?

[Jack Weber]

I'm just wondering how many plantation owners in Canada were "intelligent and reasonable" and dutifully gave up the slaves they depended on for their livelihood? My point is, had we only had the North to consider, we would have ended slavery without having to fight a war, too. It's much easier to give up what you don't depend on to sustain your way of life.

That in no way condones slavery, but those who didn't depend on it certainly would be able to be more "reasonable" about abolishing it than those who did depend on it.

Unfortunately,for wealthy land owners in the South,giving up on slavery had a serious financial component to it.The dollar value of all held slaves in the South was more than the value of the land they worked for free on...I doubt they would have given up the fight easily.Who would compensate them for thier investment?

This makes it all the more ironic that most men who fought for the Confederacy did'nt own slaves or that much land.

[Jack Weber]

I would also contend that despite JBG's protestations Americans are still very much divided along the mason-dixon line as well. It has been my experience that the southerners still refer to many northerners as yankees. A term that Canadians often inaccurately use to refer to all Americans. The cultural disparity between north and south and even east and west is palpable.

This is true...Simply refer to the way the majority of the "Old Confederacy" voted last November.

[jbg]

I'm an avid US Civil War "fan".If you think the people who fought for the Union were any less bigoted than folks in the Confederacy,I got news for ya'.If you asked the average Union soldier about what he was fighting for in 1861 or '62(before Antietam),he would probably say he was fighting for the preservation of the union and to stamp out secession.A Confederate soldier of the same time period would probably say he was fighting for States rights and from opression from the heavy hand of the federal gov't. Fighting for the freedom of slaves would not have crossed the minds of 70 to 80 % of the union military.

So far so good.

Remember,U.S. Grant was asked how can he fight for the Union while his family owned slaves...He said nonchalantly,"It's hard to get good help.",William Tecumseh Sherman is famously quoted as saying,"The only good indian is a DEAD indian!".

I addressed Grant's point by mentioning that there was a limited market in low-wage workers in areas that had slaves. Sort of makes sense. And makes it hard to depart from a slaveholding model.

As far as the world being American...I'll take being Canadian,thanks...

I have no problem with that.

Also, try not to quote entire posts. Quote the part to which you are responding.

[jbg]

This is true...Simply refer to the way the majority of the "Old Confederacy" voted last November.

Oh really? Virginia, North Carolina and Florida voted for Obama. I don't see last years' vote as sectional in the least.

[jbg]

This makes it all the more ironic that most men who fought for the Confederacy did'nt own slaves or that much land.

Generally, poorer people are more available for fighting than wealthier ones. Just a fact of life.

[Jack Weber]

Oh really? Virginia, North Carolina and Florida voted for Obama. I don't see last years' vote as sectional in the least.

Well...Migration from Northern states is responsible for that.North Carolina kept electing one Jesse Helms seemingly interminably,speaking of anachronistic buffoons.As far as the old Confederacy goes...Georgia,Alabama,Mississippi,Louisiana,Tennessee,Arkansas,South Carolina(the first state to secceed(sp)),and Texas...Seems like most of the old Confederacy mindset is still intact.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Jack Weber

[jbg]

As far as the old Confederacy goes...Georgia,Alabama,Mississippi,Louisiana,Tennessee,Arkansas,South Carolina(the first state to secceed(sp)),and Texas...Seems like most of the old Confederacy mindset is still intact.

Florida and Virginia don't count?

[bush_cheney2004]

Florida and Virginia don't count?

Nope....I guess Appomattox was in Texas!

[jbg]

Nope....I guess Appomattox was in Texas!

Wasn't that some kind of courthouse?