Harper

[Smallc]

The public doesn't understand the system well enough. It's that simple. And no, you won't be changing my mind. I've read enough to know what the truth is in this case.

[Keepitsimple]

The public doesn't understand the system well enough. It's that simple. And no, you won't be changing my mind. I've read enough to know what the truth is in this case.

You're absoluitely right - the public does NOT understand the system well enough. They just know what they INTENDED. It's just like when you KNOW the guy is guilty, but the lawyers get them off on a technicality. That's really what the Conserrvatives were trying to adrees - the public never intended that something like that could ever happen. Conservatives 144 - Liberals 77 - Think about it - Stephane Dion as PM - think about it!

[Smallc]

I didn't want Stephane Dion and PM...it doesn't change anything.

[kimmy]

As far as PMs come, I don't think Harper is not one of the better PM's and the following article may supply the reasons he's a so-so PM. http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/680335

I don't find any of the author's reasons to be very compelling.

-k

[August1991]

The Toronto Star/Haroon Siddiqui piece is provocative. Look at the names in its opening paragraphs:

Omar Khadr rots in Guantanamo.

Abousfian Abdelrazik, tortured in his native Sudan, had to be holed up in the Canadian embassy in Khartoum for a year before being allowed to return to Canada.

Bashir Makhtal – abducted from Kenya to his native Ethiopia and sentenced to life in prison for allegedly belonging to a separatist group – may or may not get Ottawa's help in fighting the verdict of a kangaroo court.

Huseyin Celil – a Uighur Canadian human-rights activist serving a life sentence in China after being convicted, in secret, on charges of terrorism – has been forgotten by Ottawa. Its waning interest has run in tandem with its increasing enthusiasm for business with China.

IOW, Harper doesn't care about Canadian Muslims abroad. (Siddiqui forgot Suaad Hagi Mohamud, the latest CBC/Toronto Star poster child of government injustice.) Government injustice? Who woulda thunk?

-----

Harper is a tall, blue-eyed, full-haired intelligent man who speaks native Canadian English and accented French. As far as I'm concerned, he has done Canada proud in international fora. As a typical middle class Leaside/Calgary WASP, I'm sure that Harper is polite but direct when speaking to Obama or Sarkozy. Plus Canadien-anglais que Harper et on meurt....

[jdobbin]

Harper is a tall, blue-eyed, full-haired intelligent man who speaks native Canadian English and accented French. As far as I'm concerned, he has done Canada proud in international fora. As a typical middle class Leaside/Calgary WASP, I'm sure that Harper is polite but direct when speaking to Obama or Sarkozy. Plus Canadien-anglais que Harper et on meurt....

It sounds like true love. Are there any other physical attributes that you would like to mention?

[August1991]

It sounds like true love. Are there any other physical attributes that you would like to mention?

Dobbin, are you ashamed of being an English Canadian? A WASP?

[capricorn]

It sounds like true love. Are there any other physical attributes that you would like to mention?

I have one. When I look at our Prime Minister, the word rotund comes to mind. Physical attributes has never been high on my list of the worth of a public figure. Just as Pearson's lisp never lowered my esteem of his abilities. When it comes to Jean Chretien, I make an exception. His crooked grin matches what I think of him. Uh ho, do you think I just opened myself up to a lawsuit?

[jdobbin]

Dobbin, are you ashamed of being an English Canadian? A WASP?

Not at all. Are you ashamed of being Francophone? A Catholic?

Just commenting on your descriptions of the man. What's next? He has a manly jaw, soft lips and when he looks at you, you know he means conservativism?

Edited August 15, 2009 by jdobbin

[jdobbin]

I have one. When I look at our Prime Minister, the word rotund comes to mind. Physical attributes has never been high on my list of the worth of a public figure. Just as Pearson's lisp never lowered my esteem of his abilities. When it comes to Jean Chretien, I make an exception. His crooked grin matches what I think of him. Uh ho, do you think I just opened myself up to a lawsuit?

Physical descriptions don't really mean too much to me either. Just wondering why we are seeing them here so prominently. As for his religion, I have no cares about it as well unless it dominates his views contrary to a separation of state and church.

I don't recall lawsuits in regards to commenting on someone's looks. I just think it probably doesn't tell the whole story.

[August1991]

Not at all. Are you ashamed of being Francophone? A Catholic?

Just commenting on your descriptions of the man. What's next? He is has a manly jaw, soft lips and when he looks at you, you know he means conservativism?

It seems to me that there is a self-loathing in the West now.

People don't want a leader like themselves. To have one, it's an admission of stupidity or something. English-Canadians don't want an English-Canadian leader (unless it's another English-Canadian WASP who says that English-Canadian WASPs are bad people.)

In America, it's the same thing. There's some kind of weird self-denial going on.

----

I reckon that it's a fad. It won't last more than 20 years more.

Edited August 15, 2009 by August1991

[Oleg Bach]

Harper may not embarass Canada but he does embarass me personally. It maybe because he is not really a leader - just a surrogate put in postion by the banks..big buisness and what is left of the old guard - our dark and curious shadow government - that is aging - once they are gone - Harper will be gone. I just wish we actually had a leader..someone who would stand up for the rights of Canadian citizens domestically and abroad. BUT - it seems that he just sends messages to us from the bank towers in Montreal and Toronto. I really don't know what he's about - he's kind of a non-issue as a person. IF the rights of one Canadian are trampled upon - then the rights of all Canadians are ignored....a prime minister should be are first and foremost servant and protector..He seems to serve a select view as the rest of us are held out to dry....I don't like the fact that he panders to the American elite. His quiet betrayal is the greatest weight and the weight of embarassment is heavey on our shoulders.

[g_bambino]

You're absoluitely right - the public does NOT understand the system well enough. They just know what they INTENDED. That's really what the Conserrvatives were trying to adrees - the public never intended that something like that could ever happen. Think about it - Stephane Dion as PM - think about it!

That's not really the point. Harper made a televised statement wherein he completely mangled the Canadian constitutional system into something more reflective of the US presidential one, implying that Canadian prime ministers are directly elected by the voting populace. At such a point in time, such a person as the Prime Minister should not be feeding the country misleading information, regardless of what the majority thinks is the truth. I understand Harper has Reform roots, and that party was very American in its views on government, but I have to doubt that he didn't understand the nature of his position or how he got there. And so, I believe he knew full well that his claims of a coup were little more than politically beneficial doublespeak, if not bald-faced lies. John Baird's comments about the Cabinet going above parliament and above the Governor General sounded more like the inspiring cries of a coup leader than anything the coalition was planning.

_[copyed.]

Edited August 15, 2009 by g_bambino

[August1991]

That's not really the point. Harper made a televised statement wherein he completely mangled the Canadian constitutional system into something more reflective of the US presidential one, implying that Canadian prime ministers are directly elected by the voting populace.

Link? Quote?

----

IMV, Harper is no more guilty of abusing the PMO than Trudeau, certainly Chretien. In fact, Harper has strictly respected the office of PM.

For many years, we have not had a PM like Harper who does not benefit personally from political status.

For once, Canada has an honest federal government. Stephen Harper is an honest man, insistent on an honest government. As much as people disagree with him, Harper is like Ryan and Rene Levesque. Honest to a fault.

[tango]

Harper is a tall, blue-eyed, full-haired intelligent man who speaks native Canadian English and accented French. As far as I'm concerned, he has done Canada proud in international fora. As a typical middle class Leaside/Calgary WASP, I'm sure that Harper is polite but direct when speaking to Obama or Sarkozy. Plus Canadien-anglais que Harper et on meurt....

Harper is a pudgy doughboy with botox lips, who has made a fool of himself all over the world.

The only Canadian in trouble overseas that he brought home was a white crook who worked for organized crime and claimed she "didn't see a thing". I wonder what she's doing these days? Wait! Is that a blonde head under Harper's desk?

[Smallc]

For once, Canada has an honest federal government. Stephen Harper is an honest man, insistent on an honest government. As much as people disagree with him, Harper is like Ryan and Rene Levesque. Honest to a fault.

If you'd just take the blinders off for a minute....he's doing a pretty good job on the whole, but he certainly isn't honest and he certainly isn't as perfect as you make out.

[jdobbin]

It seems to me that there is a self-loathing in the West now.

People don't want a leader like themselves. To have one, it's an admission of stupidity or something. English-Canadians don't want an English-Canadian leader (unless it's another English-Canadian WASP who says that English-Canadian WASPs are bad people.)

I think you don't know what you are saying and making it up as you go along. Perhaps you have had too much to drink last night. We'll try to respect you in the morning though.

[g_bambino]

Link? Quote? Stephen Harper is an honest man, insistent on an honest government.

"...Canada's Government has always been chosen by the people."

"[T]he opposition wants to overturn the results of that election..."

"[T]he Opposition does not have the democratic right to impose a coalition..."

"Canada's Government will use every legal means at our disposal to protect our democracy..."

Stephen Harper's Dec. 3, 2008 statement

Nothing in there is honest. Read this for a very good explanation as to why.

[charter.rights]

If you'd just take the blinders off for a minute....he's doing a pretty good job on the whole, but he certainly isn't honest and he certainly isn't as perfect as you make out.

The devil is in the details.......

Harper is a failure and has created more conflict, offended more human rights and defied the Supreme Court more than any other Prime Minister in the History of Canada.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Yet he retains power.

[Keepitsimple]

The devil is in the details.......

Harper is a failure and has created more conflict, offended more human rights and defied the Supreme Court more than any other Prime Minister in the History of Canada.

In general, Conservatives tend to smirk and roll their eyes at self-ritcheous Liberals....but Liberals - as shown on this board throughout many threads, have a vitriolic hatred for Harper and Conservatives in general - people who represent 35-40% of the Canadian population. Even Dobbin uses his mad-dog socialist term to describe Harper. You'll see very few, if any instances of people hurling insults at Mr. Ignatieff - like "he's the devil", "he's a liar", "he's a racist". Unfortunately, this Liberal-minded anger is all too present in the media - especially the Toronto Star......and that's why you hear of "conflict" and that famous term "outrage" so often.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Keepitsimple

[jdobbin]

In general, Conservatives tend to smirk and roll their eyes at self-ritcheous Liberals....but Liberals - as shown on this board throughout many threads, have a vitriolic hatred for Harper and Conservatives in general - people who represent 35-40% of the Canadian population. Even Dobbin uses his mad-dog socialist term to describe Harper. You'll see very few, if any instances of people hurling insults at Mr. Ignatieff - like "he's the devil", "he's a liar", "he's a racist". Unfortunately, this Liberal-minded anger is all too present in the media - especially the Toronto Star......and that's why you hear of "conflict" and that famous term "outrage" so often.

I don't think I have ever called him a socialist. However, with all the money he spends, he might be trying for that moniker.

I've called him a mad dog sociopath because he uses the same attack lines despite the fact that it never gets him close to majority territory.

You say that the Liberals are attacking but the recent fundraising as noted by the Hill Times has very little negative tones whereas the Tory fundraising is all about the attack. Some analysts have said that it is because the Tories have always been the party of grievances

Edited August 15, 2009 by jdobbin

[kimmy]

The author is projecting. He suggests that Harper's failure to go to bat for various accused terrorists in foreign lands is as upsetting to people in countries around the world as it is to him personally. I suspect he is very wrong. I suspect that few people outside Canada's border give a hoot about Omar Khadr or Mahktal or Abdelrazik. (Ironically, the lefties here were embarrassed when Harper DID speak up publicly for Husein Celil, now they are embarrassed that his cause is no longer in the headlines.)

Generally, I think the greater embarrassment to Canada would not be in allowing nations to conduct their own legal affairs. I think the greater embarrassment is if our Prime Minister were to stick his neck out to advocate on behalf of some imprisoned Canadian and have it blow up in our faces afterward, as was the case with Omar's papa Ahmed. That's embarrassing.

-k

[Craig1]

In general, Conservatives tend to smirk and roll their eyes at self-ritcheous Liberals....but Liberals - as shown on this board throughout many threads, have a vitriolic hatred for Harper and Conservatives in general - people who represent 35-40% of the Canadian population. Even Dobbin uses his mad-dog socialist term to describe Harper. You'll see very few, if any instances of people hurling insults at Mr. Ignatieff - like "he's the devil", "he's a liar", "he's a racist". Unfortunately, this Liberal-minded anger is all too present in the media - especially the Toronto Star......and that's why you hear of "conflict" and that famous term "outrage" so often.

conflict resluts when the right tend to confuse religeon with politics, when you stand up infront of a majority audience and you blast of rehtorics like its " a deal with the devil" im sorry you don't gain much credability then you got right MLA's being racist towards immigrants and slandering gays something I very seldom see come from any left wing politician.

For the record I don't support either sides but think they are all a waste of skin.

[Topaz]

In general, Conservatives tend to smirk and roll their eyes at self-ritcheous Liberals....but Liberals - as shown on this board throughout many threads, have a vitriolic hatred for Harper and Conservatives in general - people who represent 35-40% of the Canadian population. Even Dobbin uses his mad-dog socialist term to describe Harper. You'll see very few, if any instances of people hurling insults at Mr. Ignatieff - like "he's the devil", "he's a liar", "he's a racist". Unfortunately, this Liberal-minded anger is all too present in the media - especially the Toronto Star......and that's why you hear of "conflict" and that famous term "outrage" so often.

Wait a minute. I don't think non-Tories hate Harper, but we do hate what we see him and his party try to do that isn't right morally or illegally! Was it right to try and bribe Cadman for votes? Was it right to write of on the income tax party spending when they knew it was wrong and Election Canada caught them? Was right to cover up the things that are going wrong with the miltary and war, to save their skins? Was it right last election to say Canada wasn't in deficit, when we were? The list could go on but you get an idea why people don't trust this government. Harper uses the excuses of global recession, to hide their over spending. As far as Iggy is concerned, he's new at his job and I can only go on what he thinks and says and if I don't agree with him I'll say so but he's not the one in the PMO , as yet anyway, and he's not the one making decisions that may not be a good for Canada, like Chalk River. By forcing it backup two years ago, it now going to be down until the spring of 2010 or later.