Alta4ever Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I'm afraid the optics of the Tory attack is anti professional, anti immigrant. And yet they have not flocked to the Liberal party they in fact those that were not core liberals have not swayed they have stayed with the bloc, the ndp, and the tories. The truth has stopped Ignatieff and the liberals poll numbers, and they have receided from where they were prior to the summer break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 And yet they have not flocked to the Liberal party they in fact those that were not core liberals have not swayed they have stayed with the bloc, the ndp, and the tories. The truth has stopped Ignatieff and the liberals poll numbers, and they have receided from where they were prior to the summer break. What polls are you referring to? The ones that show the Liberals back in the lead again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I'm afraid the optics of the Tory attack is anti professional, anti immigrant. Perhaps through your Liberal lens. Tell me, why hasn't anyone from these professional and immigrant groups come forward to accuse the Tories of attacking their Canadianism because of the ads about Ignatieff's absence from Canada? The accusations are a fabrication of Liberal strategists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I think the polls show Canadians distrust all politicians because they play games all the time. Actually, the polls show that Canadians are not in a great rush to swap a Conservative government for a Liberal government. A parachuted Liberal Messiah or a recession cannot put the party in a solid lead in the polls. By all means. Make sure to emphasize the "just visiting" campaign even more. Just visiting puts it mildly. When I think of Ignatieff I think of the term interloper. Interloper: One that interferes with the affairs of others, often for selfish reasons; a meddler. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/interloper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Perhaps through your Liberal lens. Tell me, why hasn't anyone from these professional and immigrant groups come forward to accuse the Tories of attacking their Canadianism because of the ads about Ignatieff's absence from Canada? The accusations are a fabrication of Liberal strategists. Maybe they are making their feelings felt by keeping the Tories exactly where they are in the polls. Dead even with the Liberals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Actually, the polls show that Canadians are not in a great rush to swap a Conservative government for a Liberal government. A parachuted Liberal Messiah or a recession cannot put the party in a solid lead in the polls. How long does one have to be in the country before they are no longer regarded as an outsider? Give me a ballpark figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Maybe they are making their feelings felt by keeping the Tories exactly where they are in the polls. Dead even with the Liberals. Just like they were under Dion. How did that work out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Just like they were under Dion. How did that work out? Dion was way down in the polls much of the time. The Tories just couldn't crack the 40% mark to assure their majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 (edited) Dion was way down in the polls much of the time. The Tories just couldn't crack the 40% mark to assure their majority. Not in the least. His Last summer as leader he was pulling the same numbers Iggy is right now how soon we forget. Date Bloc Cons Green Lib NDP2008.08.27 8 33 7 35 17 Nanos Research 2008.08.24 9 33 11 34 15 Harris-Decima 2008.08.14 9 36 10 30 14 Ipsos Reid 2008.08.10 6 32 13 33 15 Harris-Decima 2008.07.31 9 34 11 30 14 Ipsos Reid 2008.07.30 9 35 8 30 17 Angus Reid Strategies 2008.07.10 11 33 10 32 13 Ipsos Reid 2008.06.29 10 30 12 31 16 Harris-Decima 2008.06.24 9 33 7 30 19 Angus Reid Strategies 2008.06.09 10 32 10 30 18 Strategic Counsel 2008.06.08 6 32 12 31 15 Harris-Decima I honestly tired to make that table look better but I couldn't Edited August 4, 2009 by punked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Not in the least. His Last summer as leader he was pulling the same numbers Iggy is right now how soon we forget.I honestly tired to make that table look better but I couldn't Here is the table you are looking for. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polli..._election,_2008 It is a pretty pathetic 26% average for the Liberals and a 37% average for the Tories from 2006 to the election. The Liberals have been fairing at least 4% higher since the change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keepitsimple Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I figure he has this one election left and if he can't deliver a majority, it will be the last one. You think differently? Very differently. I'll keep telling you - probably for the next ten years - it's just about impossible to get a majority the way things are right now. Harper himself will be quite satisfied to head a fairly strong minority government for the foreseeable future. He's only 50 years old - a very young man in politics. He loves his job and unlike the Liberals under Chretien and Martin, there is no division infecting the party due to various leadership aspirations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Very differently. I'll keep telling you - probably for the next ten years - it's just about impossible to get a majority the way things are right now. Harper himself will be quite satisfied to head a fairly strong minority government for the foreseeable future. He's only 50 years old - a very young man in politics. He loves his job and unlike the Liberals under Chretien and Martin, there is no division infecting the party due to various leadership aspirations. I think you have it right when you say "the way things are now." It is why after the next election, the party will see if a change in leadership is something they should consider. If the Tories go down in seats, I expect that change will be pushed hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Dobbin, I can't believe that you think the Conservatives will look to oust a sitting Prime Minister from their own party. The Conservatives will certainly lose seats, and the Liberals will certainly gain some. I don't expect that either of the leaders will be gone after the next election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Dobbin, I can't believe that you think the Conservatives will look to oust a sitting Prime Minister from their own party. The Conservatives will certainly lose seats, and the Liberals will certainly gain some. I don't expect that either of the leaders will be gone after the next election. The party that doesn't look to succession ultimately will fight with itself. Witness the Liberals under Chretien. It is something the Tories have faced as well. It will be hard to regard it as a victory if the Tories lose seats in the next election. Harper himself may deduce that a change is needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I can see Harper leaving. I can't see him being forced out just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Very differently. I'll keep telling you - probably for the next ten years - it's just about impossible to get a majority the way things are right now. Harper himself will be quite satisfied to head a fairly strong minority government for the foreseeable future. He's only 50 years old - a very young man in politics. He loves his job and unlike the Liberals under Chretien and Martin, there is no division infecting the party due to various leadership aspirations. I think Harper will play up his youth next election. Iggy is 61 now maybe 62 by the time next election comes which is still young for politics but it is old compared to Harper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 The party that doesn't look to succession ultimately will fight with itself. Witness the Liberals under Chretien.It is something the Tories have faced as well. It will be hard to regard it as a victory if the Tories lose seats in the next election. Harper himself may deduce that a change is needed. The Liberals under Chretien were too successful that was their problem. They thought they would always be in power and that is what caused the fights. Why not tear the party apart to be the next PM cause no one else in the world could be it because it was permit Liberal majority for the forseeable future. It has nothing to with not looking it successful it was they were too successful. That is what will keep the Conservatives together is they know the Liberals are the base party in Canada and they have to fight to convince Liberals not too vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 I can see Harper leaving. I can't see him being forced out just yet. As noted, it is contingent on losing seats in an election. If you're not moving forward, you are moving backward and it is likely the view will be that some sort of change is necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punked Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 As noted, it is contingent on losing seats in an election. If you're not moving forward, you are moving backward and it is likely the view will be that some sort of change is necessary. Martin lost seats and no one went for him at the time, Chretien lost seats, Trudeau lost seat, King lost seats, it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Martin lost seats and no one went for him at the time, Chretien lost seats, Trudeau lost seat, King lost seats, it happens. You forget that one election loss is usually built into the contract the party has with a leader (except for Dion). Harper has been at it for some time now. A reduction in seats can't be blamed on the previous leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellowtraveller Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Tories wonder if Jason Kenney next to lead party Actually, they don't. Unless you now are pretending to be a Tory yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellowtraveller Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 How long does one have to be in the country before they are no longer regarded as an outsider? Give me a ballpark figure. How about 15% of your adult life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted August 4, 2009 Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 How long does one have to be in the country before they are no longer regarded as an outsider? Give me a ballpark figure. Yeah I meant to respond to this sooner. It's kind of hard to give a solid figure but if you've only been back in Canada for a few years and the past 20-30 years were spent outside of Canada, it's probably safe to say that you're far removed from what we'd typically call Canadian. It's kind of hard for a lot of people to believe that a potential leader really has his interests vested in Canada when he's not lived here in forever. If he'd been here for say 5-10 years before running for the leadership maybe it would be more believable, but the fact that he was parachuted into the position shortly after returning kind of indicates why he came back in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 Actually, they don't.Unless you now are pretending to be a Tory yourself. That was the headline. If you don't like it, talk to CTV. Maybe they are Tories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2009 How about 15% of your adult life? So, the door really is closed to returned professionals and recent immigrants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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