FAir Representation

[Craig1]

In my home town we had a well respected MLA Dan BAcks who was ousted from the Liberal party not long ago, and now most recent Guy Boutirer of Fort Mcmurray was fired from the Conservative party. What happen the Cons did a ribbon cutting and promised money to Fort Mcmurray to build a old age home. But, In Alberta we have a Health Super board that recieves bonuses if they can slash monies from the budget so recently they slashed the old folks home, and have the old living in what they call cells in the local hospital.

So what Guy does is speaks out against his party and gets fired. Now all he is doing is representing his constituants, and he gets fired?

I strongly feel the MLA should work for the constituants first and not the party, the party shouldn't rule. And until we can have Fair representation we will always have shadow figures running this country.

It SUCKS!

[Guest TrueMetis]

Maybe we should make parties illegal, that way their only job is to represent their constituants.

[Machjo]

In my home town we had a well respected MLA Dan BAcks who was ousted from the Liberal party not long ago, and now most recent Guy Boutirer of Fort Mcmurray was fired from the Conservative party. What happen the Cons did a ribbon cutting and promised money to Fort Mcmurray to build a old age home. But, In Alberta we have a Health Super board that recieves bonuses if they can slash monies from the budget so recently they slashed the old folks home, and have the old living in what they call cells in the local hospital.

So what Guy does is speaks out against his party and gets fired. Now all he is doing is representing his constituants, and he gets fired?

I strongly feel the MLA should work for the constituants first and not the party, the party shouldn't rule. And until we can have Fair representation we will always have shadow figures running this country.

It SUCKS!

My answer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-partisan_democracy

[Machjo]

Maybe we should make parties illegal, that way their only job is to represent their constituants.

We wouldn't need to make them illegal; all we'd need to do is no longer acknowledge them in the law. They could exist, but the government would give no party money, only the candidate's name appears on the balot, but not his party's name, no more party caucuses in the House of commons, but simpply a caucus of the House to which all MPs could participate, etc. Even the PM, cabinet ministers, and even Canada's ambassador to the UN could be elected by the House.

But, alas, so much liberty would scare the hell out of party leaders.

[eyeball]

Maybe we should make parties illegal, that way their only job is to represent their constituants.

We should simply make them redundant by using assemblies of civil servants, relevant experts, and citizens selected in a jury-like fashion to do the job of crafting ar changing public policies. Beyond that let the people represent themselves when voting on what these assemblies produce.

Of course, if people are too lazy to participate or represent themselves they can just lay back and let some party do it.

[Alta4ever]

A party run system and you expect them to legislate themselves out?

Now if you are sick of the PC's but are a conservative/libertarian check out the Wildrose Alliance, the leadership race is heating up, and looks like it might be a viable choice.

If not you may be suck with the liberals or the NDP, good luck.

[whowhere]

This thread makes no sense. We vote in people who happen to be in a party. If the person elected does not get along with his party, the only thing the party can do is kick him out of that party. That person would still represent that region as an independent and he would still be able to rant against the corrupt harper conservatives.

If a party did in fact have the power the fire someone from representing a region the person was "elected" to by the people, Canada would in fact be a Communist Country. However, Canada is a reminent of a Constitutional Monarchy. Canada still has the Governor Generals and left-tenant generals who is appointed by the Queens office. 2010 the Queen is supposedly Coming to Canada for a visit.

A party cannot fire a person from representing an area he/she was elected to but the party can fire the person out of the party and make that person an independent at the cost of weakening Harpers's corrupt minority. What is Fact: The way Canada is structured is the Queen, Via the Governor Generals can fire the party (the Conservatives) from running the Country and have the official opposition form the Government if she feels it in her interests and the interests of Canada.

The Communist Harper Conservatives should stop preaching their corrupt brainwashing principles. Their shite is not flying.

[Wild Bill]

So what Guy does is speaks out against his party and gets fired. Now all he is doing is representing his constituants, and he gets fired?

I strongly feel the MLA should work for the constituants first and not the party, the party shouldn't rule. And until we can have Fair representation we will always have shadow figures running this country.

Yet another example proving that there is nothing left of Reform/Alliance in the present Conservative Party. The tiny rump that was left of the old Progressive Conservatives has successfully morphed the new party into a clone of themselves.

Why did Manning even bother?

And why do so many on this board moan and groan about the loss of the old PC's? Look at what's done, not what's said!

This is exactly the sort of thing the old Mulroney party would have done.

If it walks like a duck...

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Yet another example proving that there is nothing left of Reform/Alliance in the present Conservative Party. The tiny rump that was left of the old Progressive Conservatives has successfully morphed the new party into a clone of themselves.

Why did Manning even bother?

And why do so many on this board moan and groan about the loss of the old PC's? Look at what's done, not what's said!

This is exactly the sort of thing the old Mulroney party would have done.

If it walks like a duck...

I have begun to seek out independents to support. There isn't always a candidate, and in that case I am stuck voting for the best one of the bunch, party affiliation has no weight with me in that case.

Part of our problems stem from the lack of a provincial constitution, but most are simply because of partisan politics. Which is fine during an election but it really screws things up when it is time to sit down and actually govern. I may have to become a candidate soon, independent of course, just to prove the point. I couldn't care less if I don''t get elected but just having the opportunity to turn the tables on the partisan candidates in my riding would be reward enough. If by some strange circumstance I ever manage to get elected, the fun would really begin. With nobody to be accountable to outside of the riding, a representative could cause utter chaos in a legislature. Getting the time to speak is in fact a real problem, but there are always another way to skin a cat.

At any rate the public is almost ready to start throwing support to independent candidates with the current trend of minority governments at the federal level, and in Alberta the PC's are getting a tad old. The Wildrose Alliance folks will likely make a dent next time around with a new leader. I think it will be Daneil Smith, smart cookie, and not to hard to look at either. That said the party has some issues before they run the next election. Some of the executive is a little off centre and some of the members are a little off the wall, but that is okay because it reflects a nice full spectrum sort of grass roots association. They are all free market capitalists and slightly to the right of the current PC government. So they at least have some traction out of the gate in the Land of the Red Neck.

To return to the point, a representative of the people instead of another representative of the leader of apartisan group is something that has people talking out here in Alberta. Folks know that you can either support your leader or get tossed out of caucus in a heartbeat. When it come time to stand up for your riding, instead of your party leader, start packing up your pencils because you have lost your seat at the table with the grown ups. It is clear how the system works, and it does not favour the citizen it favours the party.

[Machjo]

I'd just e-mailed this to Elections Canada this morning:

Dear Sir or Madam,

I was wondering if it is possible at the beginning of an election campaign for a voter to request a non-party ballot (i.e. a ballot without any party name mentioned, with any money distributed from that ballot going to the candidate instead of the party) to be sent either to the voter's home or, alternatively, to a voting hall where it is reserved for when the voter arrives to request it.

I'm asking this because I find it offensive that my voting for a candidate gives the false impression that I'm also voting for his party, thus making it difficult for me to check a candidate's name when a party name appeares underneath it. Beyond the symbolic significance of this, there is also the material financial benefit that a party gains even from a vote for a candidate which, in my opinion, essentially amounts to a bait-and-switch, whereby I vote for a candidate, with Elections Canada then interpreting it as a vote for the party, and rewarding the party accordingly.

I thank you for your attention, and look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely,

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now I don't know if they'll receive it though. No e-mail address appeared on their webpage, so I filled in the e-mail form on their site. After clicking send, I got a message saying the page could not be found. So either I've sent multiple copies in my attempt to get past that, or that's a normal response. Anyway, at least I tried to send it.

[Smallc]

Why do libertarians always have a problem with something?

[Machjo]

Why do libertarians always have a problem with something?

Am I a libertarian?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

We don't. We just don't like the government telling us what we are supposed to like or dislike. Have the government stop doing that and we will stop complaining about it.

[madmax]

So what Guy does is speaks out against his party and gets fired. Now all he is doing is representing his constituants, and he gets fired? It SUCKS!

He has done exactly what people expect him to do. Is there a price for this.. Always. Nothing in life is free, and its time like these that you want your rep to stand up and do the right thing.

So what if the party tosses you out? Yes, the road will be difficult ahead, but it is better then being the chicken nodder.

What is important is that to prove the constituents were behind him, he is going to need their support in the next election.

[madmax]

Yet another example proving that there is nothing left of Reform/Alliance in the present Conservative Party.

This is exactly the sort of thing the old Mulroney party would have done.

If it walks like a duck...

Whoa... Wild Bill, the Reform Party started losing their edge with the Pension Fiasco. No courage to follow through, even if it required leading by example.

This is exactly the direction the Reform Party was heading...

No suprises.

Its why people like Cadman found themselves on the outside looking in. And that was good for Canada.

[Machjo]

A party run system and you expect them to legislate themselves out?

If we make enough noise about it, why not? I'd spoilt my ballot last election and have just sent an -email to elections Canada requesting a non-partisan ballot (i.e. a ballot with no party names on it).

While one person can't do much about it, if enough people joined in to flood Elections Canada's e-mail box and more people started going to vote even if they do just hand their ballot back, spoil it, or whatever, the current system would collapse. They'd have no choice but to finally respond.

Now if you are sick of the PC's but are a conservative/libertarian check out the Wildrose Alliance, the leadership race is heating up, and looks like it might be a viable choice.

Another party will just lead to the same corruption as before.

[Machjo]

I have begun to seek out independents to support. There isn't always a candidate, and in that case I am stuck voting for the best one of the bunch, party affiliation has no weight with me in that case.

Part of our problems stem from the lack of a provincial constitution, but most are simply because of partisan politics. Which is fine during an election but it really screws things up when it is time to sit down and actually govern. I may have to become a candidate soon, independent of course, just to prove the point. I couldn't care less if I don''t get elected but just having the opportunity to turn the tables on the partisan candidates in my riding would be reward enough. If by some strange circumstance I ever manage to get elected, the fun would really begin. With nobody to be accountable to outside of the riding, a representative could cause utter chaos in a legislature. Getting the time to speak is in fact a real problem, but there are always another way to skin a cat.

At any rate the public is almost ready to start throwing support to independent candidates with the current trend of minority governments at the federal level, and in Alberta the PC's are getting a tad old. The Wildrose Alliance folks will likely make a dent next time around with a new leader. I think it will be Daneil Smith, smart cookie, and not to hard to look at either. That said the party has some issues before they run the next election. Some of the executive is a little off centre and some of the members are a little off the wall, but that is okay because it reflects a nice full spectrum sort of grass roots association. They are all free market capitalists and slightly to the right of the current PC government. So they at least have some traction out of the gate in the Land of the Red Neck.

To return to the point, a representative of the people instead of another representative of the leader of apartisan group is something that has people talking out here in Alberta. Folks know that you can either support your leader or get tossed out of caucus in a heartbeat. When it come time to stand up for your riding, instead of your party leader, start packing up your pencils because you have lost your seat at the table with the grown ups. It is clear how the system works, and it does not favour the citizen it favours the party.

Interesting. I've considered running too if no other intends to run as an independent in my riding. Honestly, I've heard and read people from both the right and the left who are disillusioned with the party system, whether they're left of the NDP, right of the Conservatives, or anywhere in between. There really is a movement here I think and it cuts across party lines. I'm almost tempted to vote in an independent no matter whether he's right or left if he promises to bring us to non-partisan democracy.

[Smallc]

We don't. We just don't like the government telling us what we are supposed to like or dislike. Have the government stop doing that and we will stop complaining about it.

Well, this country isn't governed by a libertarian system and it never will be. You don't always get your way and I don't always get mine. This country wasn't founded on the principles of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness like the one to the south, but rather peace, order and good government. Everything that is done here is supposed to be done to further those goals...and I think we do a pretty good job of that.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Well, this country isn't governed by a libertarian system and it never will be. You don't always get your way and I don't always get mine. This country wasn't founded on the principles of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness like the one to the south, but rather peace, order and good government. Everything that is done here is supposed to be done to further those goals...and I think we do a pretty good job of that.

Of course you would think that. The problems with Quebec have been around for a couple centuries now and we all agree that our governments are better than everyone else's.

[whowhere]

peace, order and good government. Everything that is done here is supposed to be done to further those goals...and I think we do a pretty good job of that.

Where do you live? What a line of BS. Canada is nothing but a nation of losers and a parasite on the world stage. Canada Contributes nothing to the world other than being an exploitive whore serving a narrow minority. That narrow minority is the Government Tit suckers who derive their income from the tax revenues wherever they may come from. To fuel this greed for tax revenue Canada rolls in an ever increasing amount of immigrants further diluting whatever Canada use to be all the while not spending on the infrasture required to sustain this added burden by the immigrants they dump onto Canada.

Canada's natural resources are being shipped to the rest of the rest of world for their benefit and not to the benefit of the Canadian people, particularly oil and natural gas. Canadians pay 25 to 40 % more for Gasoline at the pump than the Americans yet we pull out more oil out the ground than Canadians Consume. The media likess to make Canada appear cool to the rest the world in movies and other areas how Canadians love their beer, yet in Ontario a particular brand of beeri is 45 dollars and in the US its a $11.50.

All Canada is a flow through to serve the world. Canada has been made a lifeless loser by the Conservatives and the Media.

Is Canada an orderly and Good Country? Far from it. It's a small minded corrupt country that hasn't got what it takes to be winner and stand on its own two feet and contribute to the world in the way of intellectual advancement. Canada has become a sell out of its resources and its people to the world. Driving up retail costs in comparison to the US and repressive wages by allowing employers to draw on a continous supply of immigrants. This is done to help Canada's foreign nationals use Canada to export products to the US and not better serve the lives of Canadians.

If that does not meet the defintion of whore what does. Canada is nothing but leach a sucking country that deserves a severe beating on the world stage for its Attitude to prosperity and the treatment of its people. When I say treatment: I mean in Comparison to the US, Britain, France, Australia, New Zealand and any other Country that is deemed Canada's origins.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

This nation could be a world leader, should we ever decide to get out collective crap together. Canada could lead the world by example, not power.

We have the resources, the brains, and the balls to get it done. What we need is the political will to do it. That requires effective leadership and the desire to live outside of the box.

[Smallc]

Of course you would think that. The problems with Quebec have been around for a couple centuries now and we all agree that our governments are better than everyone else's.

What do the problems with Quebec has to do with it? Your libertarian paradise certainly isn't going to make them happier. It will probably alienate then more. You don't have answers that work in reality when it comes to government, you only have complaints and ideas.

Oh, and Quebec is still here, isn't it?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

What do the problems with Quebec has to do with it? Your libertarian paradise certainly isn't going to make them happier. It will probably alienate then more. You don't have answers that work in reality when it comes to government, you only have complaints and ideas.

Oh, and Quebec is still here, isn't it?

Answers...you want answers? Its politics, answers are legion and solutions are problematic. The reality is that there are only two real paths for the political future. One in which citizens pay a more active role, and one in which citizens play a less active role. The active role will result in improved freedom and democracy, the less active role will result in corporate governance and taxation. That is both the truth and the reality.

[Smallc]

There's a third option. We can keep the role we have....the role that works.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

There's a third option. We can keep the role we have....the role that works.

According to you it works, but it doesn't according to me. Why don't we simply ask a question of the folks on the board?

Smallc says that this nation works fine, and we need change nothing, do you agree or disagree with him?

Edited August 3, 2009 by Jerry J. Fortin