Recession OVER!

[whowhere]

If these are the highlights then you must have lost your written talking points and are relying on your memory. According to Liberals in the know, those layoffs and toxic mortgages are way down the list of Harper gaffes.

Yes my memory isn't much but tends to document the stink of someone smiling at you and sticking it to you at the same time.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Well folks, you can start getting used to this kind of thing if you are not already. The reality is that we are losing manufacturing jobs to the third world, and we have been losing service industry jobs to that same third world one way or another. Since the economic downturn we are now even losing retail jobs with the fall of franchises. The only growth in employment is in the area of part time employment, and lower paying full time positions.

The banks are doing just fine in this country though. Sort of like stock brokers, you know what I mean. Whether you buy or sell, you get to pay the man. In business no matter how you add up the numbers you use banks and pay interest due to the lag between accounts receivable that are due and accounts payable, you borrow for day to day operations like wages and utilities. Private citizens borrow money too for big ticket items and all sorts of other things. So in good times and bad times the banks still have business walking in the door, unlike most other operations.

Meanwhile back at the ranch in the House of Commons, elected representatives continue to vote themselves raises and collect huge benefits while on the public dole. There is no fire seen and the smoke obscures their views of the reality of the common citizen.

[Shady]

There's so many lies and misinformation in your post, it's really hard to know where to start. But I'll give it a try anyways...

The US is not going to continue to play along with Canada's economic scheme of Bringing in Immigrants to keep wages low and export those products into the US market. To the US Canada is nothing more than a leach and parasite who is going to get the US back hand.

Actually, Canada's wages aren't necessarily lower. Our minimum wage is higher, and in many cases, so are our salaries. Our businesses have an advantage because of our healthcare system. It's a large cost they don't have take on, like in America. So your analysis is completely wrong.

Start pulling your weight you effing lazy leach mutherfackers. Steering Canada to the bottom is not success, Harper.

Not sure who you're talking about. I'll just chalk it up to Turrets syndrome.

Harpers Track Record

Vale Inco - Closes Falconbridge throws 800 out of work

Stelco of Hamilton and Sault St Marie. - 2000 out of work

Nortel busted and sold to foreign nationals who will not invest in canada - 1000's out of work.

Saskachewan Wheat board outsources 150 It jobs to India.

This is the track record of a recession. Recessions cost people jobs. Always have. Always will.

These are only the Highlights as to the Conservative Track record. What you don't hear about is the 200 billion harper gave the banks for toxic mortgages.

Absolute nonsense. No 200 billion was given to anyone or anything.

[whowhere]

There's so many lies and misinformation in your post, it's really hard to know where to start. But I'll give it a try anyways...

Actually, Canada's wages aren't necessarily lower. Our minimum wage is higher, and in many cases, so are our salaries. Our businesses have an advantage because of our healthcare system. It's a large cost they don't have take on, like in America. So your analysis is completely wrong.

Not sure who you're talking about. I'll just chalk it up to Turrets syndrome.

This is the track record of a recession. Recessions cost people jobs. Always have. Always will.

Absolute nonsense. No 200 billion was given to anyone or anything.

Conservative are you? Ok, pinochio when the US people regroups and has a hard look at the world you can be sure they will be eyeing Canada very very closely. Canada is and has always been a festering rash on the world. Canada has never earned its spot at the table and has resorted to underhanded repressive economics to create a government bureacratic entitlement machine.

Canada's bureaucratic and political trash get away with ramming it up the Canadians rear because Canada is polarized and fragmented. To preserve power they continue to dump on Canadians to preserve and fuel their vanity.

Be sure the noose is tightening and when the dust settles Canada will get what it deserves.

[Shady]

Conservative are you? Ok, pinochio when the US people regroups and has a hard look at the world you can be sure they will be eyeing Canada very very closely. Canada is and has always been a festering rash on the world. Canada has never earned its spot at the table and has resorted to underhanded repressive economics to create a government bureacratic entitlement machine.

Canada's bureaucratic and political trash get away with ramming it up the Canadians rear because Canada is polarized and fragmented. To preserve power they continue to dump on Canadians to preserve and fuel their vanity.

Be sure the noose is tightening and when the dust settles Canada will get what it deserves.

Wow that's a great rant. Unfortunately, you didn't address any of my points. I guess I'll assume you're conceding them.

Canada is and has always been a festering rash on the world

Really? Always? That's quite a statement. Hopefully, if you live here, you'll leave immediately.

[Bonam]

Canada is and has always been a festering rash on the world.

LOL

[Guest TrueMetis]

Canada is and has always been a festering rash on the world.

Tell that to the Dutch.

Canada has never earned its spot at the table and has resorted to underhanded repressive economics to create a government bureacratic entitlement machine.

And tell that to the British.

Edited July 24, 2009 by TrueMetis

[eyeball]

Great, this good news made our dollar go up meaning my take home pay just went down.

I was happier when we were doomed.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Great, this good news made our dollar go up meaning my take home pay just went down.

I was happier when we were doomed.

When is the next round of junk bond mortgage mutuals due anyway, it is soon of that I am sure.

[Machjo]

We all know what comes after a recession and unemployment: the quadruple threat of labour shortages, high inflation, high interest rates, and rising debt.

What disappointed me the most about the recession was how the government had no plan for it, just riding by the seat of tis pants.

Any responsible government should be planning for recession, deflation and unemployment in boom times, before they even need to implement the plan, so that when recession and unemployment hit, they can implement the plan right away. And we've seen how without a plan, the government seemed to just be running around patching holes unable to look to the long term or see the big picture.

Now what worries me is that during the recession, the government has likely repeated the same mistake by not planning for the coming boom, so that when it hits, the government will again, just like in the recession, run bythe seat of its pants, patching holes piecemeal with no overarching global or long-term strategy.

A responsible government should be planning for recession in times of high employment and planning for inflation in times of recession, and not be waiting to the last minute to deal with these things.

Honestly, do we honestly believe that the government has any counter-inflationary strategy in place right now? Just as the recession took it by surprise, I suspect the boom will too.

What are we paying these guys for?

[whowhere]

There's so many lies and misinformation in your post, it's really hard to know where to start. But I'll give it a try anyways...

Alright mosquito, I will give you a swat.

Actually, Canada's wages aren't necessarily lower. Our minimum wage is higher, and in many cases, so are our salaries. Our businesses have an advantage because of our healthcare system. It's a large cost they don't have take on, like in America. So your analysis is completely wrong.

Oh Higher Minimum Wage equals higher food and clothing costs. Which is good so the tit sucking government crats suck more income tax from those higher wages and get more Sales taxes from the purchases. Clever Tax increase and you thought the government was doing the economy a favor. Advantage? Who pays for health care? OUr tax structure is out of Control and puts individuals and businesses at a disadvantage to Americans. The fact is all canadian doctors do is prescribe drugs and you would be hard pressed to get them to do anything else. We don't have prescription benefits so if you don't have a drug plan that will set Canadians back a fair penny. In the states if you don't have health insurance you can see a doctor at Walgreens for $69.00 US and he will prescribe the drugs and bobs your uncle.. In Ontario your Health preminum starts at $300 dollars on your income tax. That's enough for 4 doctor visits. How many times do you need to go to the doctor? Americans without Health Insurance could opt to throw that $300 dollars they are not being raped of in emergency coverage with High deductable of about $10000. At some point people have to realize their health is product of your making. The fact is, Health care is a black hole and can suck every cent out of the economy. I know our health care system and I am not that impressed with it.

Not sure who you're talking about. I'll just chalk it up to Turrets syndrome.

This is the track record of a recession. Recessions cost people jobs. Always have. Always will.

No this is the track record of the Conservative party.

Absolute nonsense. No 200 billion was given to anyone or anything.

Actually Yes, The banks toxic debt was off loaded by the Harper Conservative. Name one Country in the World that allows someone to get off a plane, find a job, gets the right to vote from day one, and is able to buy a house and qualify for a mortgage??'

That Country is Canada. These immigrants have a fall back if things don't work out they skip town and default on their mortgages and other debt they accumulated.

This is and was the Harper conservative red carpet treatment to newcommers to Canada and when the economy tanked the conservatives obviously had to bail the banks out.

The conservatives do not represent Canada and they are a blight that should have died with Joe Clark.

[Shady]

Oh Higher Minimum Wage equals higher food and clothing costs. Which is good so the tit sucking government crats suck more income tax from those higher wages

Ok, which is it? First you said Canada is purposely keeping wages low. Now you're saying they're taking advantage of higher wages. Can you make up your mind please? Or, maybe you just don't know what you're talking about.

Actually Yes, The banks toxic debt was off loaded by the Harper Conservative.

Actually no. Canadian banks had very little "toxic debt." But I'm giving you every opportunity to prove me wrong, with some sort of evidence.

Guess which country, alone in the industrialized world, has not faced a single bank failure, calls for bailouts or government intervention in the financial or mortgage sectors. Yup, it's Canada. In 2008, the World Economic Forum ranked Canada's banking system the healthiest in the world. America's ranked 40th, Britain's 44th.

Newsweek

These immigrants have a fall back if things don't work out they skip town and default on their mortgages and other debt they accumulated.

Link?

Please back up at least of little of what you claim. Show us all, how immigrants are defaulting on their mortgages and other debt as some sort of scheme. If not, then you're just a classic hatemonger.

[Pliny]

A responsible government should be planning for recession in times of high employment and planning for inflation in times of recession, and not be waiting to the last minute to deal with these things.

Honestly, do we honestly believe that the government has any counter-inflationary strategy in place right now? Just as the recession took it by surprise, I suspect the boom will too.

What are we paying these guys for?

They create inflation and unemployment. Inflation is not an increase in general prices. General price increases across the board are caused by a devaluation of the currency, and a devaluation of the currency is caused by the creation of more currency - which is what inflation is.

High unemployment occurs when inflation of the currency has resulted in malinvestments and an inefficient use of capital, the resulting correction leads to job losses.

[Machjo]

They create inflation and unemployment. Inflation is not an increase in general prices.

No, the definition of inflation is an increase in overall prices.

General price increases across the board are caused by a devaluation of the currency,

Not necessarily. Let's suppose that Canada's currency should drop in value in relation to one other country's, but that many other countries' currencies should drop in value in relation to the Canadian at the same time?

Or let's suppose that Canada's currency should drop in value in relation to another country's, but that country's own currency is suffering from severe deflation, meaning that in fact it wouldn't be our currency dropping to its, but rather its rising to ours. Many variables are at stake here, so no, a relative devaluation of the currency vis a vis another is no guarantee of inflation. It may or may not cause it, but it's not a direct relation.

There are two points that can guarantee an increase in inflation, or at least a slow down in deflation:

1. An increase in the money supply in relation to all goods and services produced in the country., or

2. An acceleration of the money supply in the economy in relation to all the products and services produced in the country.

This is an important relationsip too, because with high unemployment, we are in fact producing less, and so even without stimulous spending, we'd be risking inflation, just because of the shrinkage in overall production in relation to the money supply. Add stimulous spending to that, and now we have a double whammy, with more money in the system, and less production. The only reason there's no inflation right now is owing to the other factor mentioned above (people aren't spending, and so the money's circulating much more slowly than before). But the fact that the money is out there, combined with a drop in productivity, makes the economy very vulnerable to inflation. All it will take is for all that money to start circulaing more quickly again, with more money than before competing for fewer products and services than before, leading to an upward movement of prices owing to supply and demand.

and a devaluation of the currency is caused by the creation of more currency

Again, not necessarily. Let's suppose the US government incresed taxes sharply, reduced spending sharply, and destroyed the surplus money. That would push the value of the US dollar up in the US itself, causing high deflation, resulting in the US dollar rising relative to the Canadian, and thus by definition a devaluation of the Canadian dollar, but not owing to more production of money on Canada's part, but rather through destruction of money on the US side, meaning that we'd have devaluation unaccompanied by inflation, since the money available in the Canadian market in Canadian dollars would remain unchanged.

- which is what inflation is.

No, that's not the definition of inflation. As I said before, devaluation and deflation are two separate things. Now, if Canada should print tons of money, that would cause inflatin and devaluation simultaneously, so yes, sometimes they can go hand in hand. But as mentioned above, not necessarily. Let's take another example. Let's suppose Canada shouls start printing lots of money, but the US decides to print even more in relation to its GDP. In such a situation. we might face inflation and yet a rise in the value of the Candian relative to the US dollar.

High unemployment occurs when inflation of the currency has resulted in malinvestments and an inefficient use of capital, the resulting correction leads to job losses.

There are many sources of unemployment. We have demand-deficient unemployment cause by de-inflation, deflation, or other source of a drop in demand for a product or service in the economy.

Then we have various forms of structural unemployment, such as:

Skill-deficient unemployment, where one simply doesn't have the skills for the jobs available in the market.

Geographical unemployment, where the jobs and the unemployed are not in the same local community.

etc.

While I agree with combating deflation as a means of combating demand-deficient unemployment, I oppose inflating our way out of recession since that doesn't work. We can inflate our way all we want, but if the workers are not where they're needed, or don't have the skills the market demands of them, there is still no guarantee they'll find work. Each form of unemployment needs to be dealt with differently. Demand-deficient unemployment is the only form that actually increases in a recession and disappears in times of increased demand. Other forms of unemployment can exist even at the hight of an economic boom, and must be dealt with differently. No stimulous will help them.

Skill-deficient unemployment must be combated through trades or professional education or training.

Geographical unemployment can be removed by removing red tape (such as having different governments recognizing each other's professional deplomas, etc., or countries signing free labour-movement agreements so that workers can cross borders to go where the jobs are, etc.).

Stimulous spending works to fight demand-deficient unemployment, but does nothing to help other forms of unemployment.