Canadian Defends Anti-Medicare Ad

Smallc · July 26, 2009

Services not covered by the provincial health plan. That may or may not extend to medical service outside of Canada.

punked · July 26, 2009

Can you expand on that please. Private insurance for what services?

Dental, Drugs, and if they need to pay for some form of Private care. I personally have blue cross.

Edited July 26, 2009 by punked

bush_cheney2004 · July 26, 2009

Services not covered by the provincial health plan. That may or may not extend to medical service outside of Canada.

OK....but could provide coverage for listed procedures outside of Canada for any number of employment or personal reasons. For instance, Canadian Forces and dependents get some form of BCBS coverage, IIRC.

I am interested only from the standpoint that "gaps" are covered by such products and services outside of the CHA.

bush_cheney2004 · July 26, 2009

Dental, Drugs, and if they need to pay for some form of Private care. I personally have blue cross.

As do I, plus some other employer policies through my spouse (hence double coverage). So what is the legal impediment that stops private pay amd insurance for listed provincial services? How is this enforced?

Smallc · July 26, 2009

Gaps have to be covered until we can extend the system further.

bush_cheney2004 · July 26, 2009

Gaps have to be covered until we can extend the system further.

OK...so if Alberta delists a procedure, it is automatically eligible for private pay and insurance. Is it fluid like that?

Smallc · July 26, 2009

I doubt insurance companies would cover the things that were delisted...sex change operations and something else, but I forget.

bush_cheney2004 · July 26, 2009

I doubt insurance companies would cover the things that were delisted...sex change operations and something else, but I forget.

Copy that, but is the "system" agile enough to move in and out of covered / listed procedures in general? Are these volatile from year to year leaving some people to scramble?

Jerry J. Fortin · July 27, 2009

Copy that, but is the "system" agile enough to move in and out of covered / listed procedures in general? Are these volatile from year to year leaving some people to scramble?

The system is quite rigid and not very flexible at all. On the other hand it is universal, federally regulated to provide equality of services in all provinces, but the system is actually run from a provincial administration. Provinces can add or detract from the services they provide just so long as federal guidelines and minimum standards are in effect. The feds cover some of the cost with federal taxes through provincial transfers, yet the lions share of funding is the responsibility of the province.

In theory it is agile enough to move in and out of coverage, but in practice there is no such movement in any kind of frequent basis at all. Health care is Canada's "third rail" touch it and die.

bush_cheney2004 · July 27, 2009

.....In theory it is agile enough to move in and out of coverage, but in practice there is no such movement in any kind of frequent basis at all. Health care is Canada's "third rail" touch it and die.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Smallc · July 27, 2009

Actually, it's quite flexible. Any province can opt out at any time. None would dare though, because any government that made such a choice would be crucified.

Jerry J. Fortin · July 27, 2009

Actually, it's quite flexible. Any province can opt out at any time. None would dare though, because any government that made such a choice would be crucified.

Opting out isn't exactly a great way to achieve flexibility. Opting out isn't a real viable option for provinces because they would see an elimination of the Canada Health transfer from the feds.

Smallc · July 27, 2009

If they opted out they wouldn't have to pay for anything. The reality is that the core of the system never changes, but the way the system operates constantly changes. Systems are streamlined, procedures are expanded or fall out of use. Things change constantly. The system is regulated by the government, paid for by the government and delivered in an almost completely private form.

benny · July 27, 2009

The bottom line is that clearly some Canadians are not satisfied with the system. Affixing blame for that is only helpful if it leads to a better solution.

The bottom line is rather that those suffering of mental health problems should receive free cares (before resorting to American-style killing sprees).

bush_cheney2004 · July 27, 2009

The bottom line is rather that those suffering of mental health problems should receive free cares (before resorting to American-style killing sprees).

:unsure: Are you trying to tell us something?

benny · July 27, 2009

Are you trying to tell us something?

You bet!

Pliny · July 27, 2009

She didn't have brain cancer.

Oh, just a cancerous tumor?

Why do you have such a problem with this? She can't lie. She is suing OHIP and can't legally make a case based upon lies. A lot of information you are going to hear circulating on the net is going to be biased and a lot of it untrue -from both sides.

Accept the fact that not everyone will be served well by our "universal system" just because it is touted to be universal doesn't make it 100% so. And when they start denying service based upon lifestyle choices, such as smoking and eating, or worse - costs, we are in big trouble. But that is the only way they can cut costs. They can't pay Doctors less, they can't pay nurses less, they can't let hospitals crumble, they can't cut administrative staff, the unions will fight for their share, the drug companies want their fair price, so who loses - the patient. It's the one place that they can cut costs and blame it on the public for being too demanding and/or not following preventive advice. They will simply deny service to those they deem undeserving. It's that or change the system. They will have to allow private health care to be available to the public in Canada. It is insane that it is not.

I would say that Tommy Douglas was an ideologue of the highest order. If you ever read his thesis on socialism you may be astounded. He did mend his ways somewhat after a visit to his hero Hitler - he didn't like him after he met him but he still held strong to the socialist ideology. Socialists just seem to think that if they were in power everything would be OK while they despise other socialists. Hitler didn't like the socialism of Stalin or even Mussolini particularly. He liked great orators apparently.

The American system doesn't serve all Americans well either but it isn't a "universal health care monopoly" which promises to do so. The American system promises Americans nothing. You are on your own. Although, they have lapsed somewhat with medicare and medicaid. They don't promise everyone universal coverage. When they do they are in trouble and the world is on trouble. It means America is now a socialist state like Canada and Europe.

Pliny · July 27, 2009

The bottom line is rather that those suffering of mental health problems should receive free cares (before resorting to American-style killing sprees).

Yes. Free transportation to the Gulag. Government doesn't want to pay for these things - they like to appear alruistic but when it comes down to the crunch - see you later!

Smallc · July 27, 2009

Oh, just a cancerous tumor?
Why do you have such a problem with this? She can't lie. She is suing OHIP and can't legally make a case based upon lies. A lot of information you are going to hear circulating on the net is going to be biased and a lot of it untrue -from both sides.

You mean like the Mayo Clinic page about her that talks about her cyst?

Alta4ever · July 27, 2009

Actually, it's quite flexible. Any province can opt out at any time. None would dare though, because any government that made such a choice would be crucified.

Yep they get told they are un Canadian and bullied by friends of Medicare to no end for even suggesting minor change as Klein was.

Just like a province can't exercise its constitutional right (exceot if your quebec or Ontario) lest you be labelled un-canadian. As were the supporters of the Alberta Agenda. Its great we have all these rights on paper, but get demonized for trying to use your "Canadian Rights".

Smallc · July 27, 2009

The American system promises Americans nothing. You are on your own.

The fact that you are perfectly ok with that shows how out of touch you are with the Canadian reality. It's time for people like you to face facts. Canadians like our system and they want to keep. They want to make it work better, yes, and progress is being made, but overall they're satisfied.

July 27, 2009

Oh, just a cancerous tumor?
Why do you have such a problem with this? She can't lie. She is suing OHIP and can't legally make a case based upon lies. A lot of information you are going to hear circulating on the net is going to be biased and a lot of it untrue -from both sides.

Accept the fact that not everyone will be served well by our "universal system" just because it is touted to be universal doesn't make it 100% so. And when they start denying service based upon lifestyle choices, such as smoking and eating, or worse - costs, we are in big trouble. But that is the only way they can cut costs. They can't pay Doctors less, they can't pay nurses less, they can't let hospitals crumble, they can't cut administrative staff, the unions will fight for their share, the drug companies want their fair price, so who loses - the patient. It's the one place that they can cut costs and blame it on the public for being too demanding and/or not following preventive advice. They will simply deny service to those they deem undeserving. It's that or change the system. They will have to allow private health care to be available to the public in Canada. It is insane that it is not.

I would say that Tommy Douglas was an ideologue of the highest order. If you ever read his thesis on socialism you may be astounded. He did mend his ways somewhat after a visit to his hero Hitler - he didn't like him after he met him but he still held strong to the socialist ideology. Socialists just seem to think that if they were in power everything would be OK while they despise other socialists. Hitler didn't like the socialism of Stalin or even Mussolini particularly. He liked great orators apparently.

The American system doesn't serve all Americans well either but it isn't a "universal health care monopoly" which promises to do so. The American system promises Americans nothing. You are on your own. Although, they have lapsed somewhat with medicare and medicaid. They don't promise everyone universal coverage. When they do they are in trouble and the world is on trouble. It means America is now a socialist state like Canada and Europe.

IT WAS A CYST NOT A TUMOR HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS.

Smallc · July 27, 2009

Yep they get told they are un Canadian and bullied by friends of Medicare to no end for even suggesting minor change as Klein was.

The minor changes contravened the Canada Health Act. They were illegal while Alberta was receiving the CHT. You don't like the system, you've made your points (fact less and baseless as they are). Canadians like their system and they're willing to fight for it. You will have a real battle if you want to destroy the system.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Smallc

Pliny · July 27, 2009

The fact that you are perfectly ok with that shows how out of touch you are with the Canadian reality.

You bet it does.

It's time for people like you to face facts. Canadians like our system and they want to keep.

Agreed.

They want to make it work better, yes, and progress is being made,

Have you read the Romanow report. I could have saved them 15 million on that one.

but overall they're satisfied.

Agreed.

Pliny · July 27, 2009

IT WAS A CYST NOT A TUMOR HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS.

She had more than one condition. A cyst and a tumor. I appreciate you posting the difference between a cyst and a tumor and defining both for us.

I must ask you what I asked Smallc. What is your problem with someone who did not receive timely treatment in the Canadian system? It is a sore point with a lot of people. Defending the system is ok but let's not defend it's faults.