Shady Posted July 21, 2009 Author Report Posted July 21, 2009 Says 83% of the American public. This time we don't need luck we need a back bone. http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/presiden...or-public-plan/ You poll is from June. Things have changed... USA Today/Gallup poll released Tuesday. 44 percent of those questioned in the survey approve of how Obama's dealing with health care, while 50 percent do not. CNN ... In addition, more respondents said government-managed solutions would make the health care situation worse than said they would make it better or keep the situation the same. Asked what effect a government-managed health care coverage option would have on access to health services, 40 percent said it would make the situation worse, 38 percent said it would make it better and 22 percent said it would remain the same. Asked what its effect would be on the quality of health care, 42 percent said it would make health care worse, 33 percent said it would make it better and 25 percent said it would not have an effect. Nearly half of respondents — 44 percent — believe government-managed coverage will increase the price of health care. Only 27 percent think a government-managed health care system would lower costs, while 29 percent said prices would remain the same. Politico Quote
punked Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 You poll is from June. Things have changed...USA Today/Gallup poll released Tuesday. 44 percent of those questioned in the survey approve of how Obama's dealing with health care, while 50 percent do not. CNN ... In addition, more respondents said government-managed solutions would make the health care situation worse than said they would make it better or keep the situation the same. Asked what effect a government-managed health care coverage option would have on access to health services, 40 percent said it would make the situation worse, 38 percent said it would make it better and 22 percent said it would remain the same. Asked what its effect would be on the quality of health care, 42 percent said it would make health care worse, 33 percent said it would make it better and 25 percent said it would not have an effect. Nearly half of respondents — 44 percent — believe government-managed coverage will increase the price of health care. Only 27 percent think a government-managed health care system would lower costs, while 29 percent said prices would remain the same. Politico There was plenty of an up hill fight for Tommy Douglas and the CCF at the time too but they did it. Guess what? People were so happy that the Liberals federally stole it pushed it threw and the rest is history. Polls will come and go in next two days I bet their is another poll that says 75% of the people believe health care should be reformed tomorrow. This has to go threw and it will. There is too much of a push for it. It is happening, your guys will do their best to make sure it is watered down but when the Health care lobby has 2 million to spend a day on fighting it they really paint themselves into a corner. Either they are making too much and have money to throw around, or this is really scaring them. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 There was plenty of an up hill fight for Tommy Douglas and the CCF at the time too but they did it. Guess what? People were so happy that the Liberals federally stole it pushed it threw and the rest is history. Tommy Douglas analogies won't work in the USA. Polls will come and go in next two days I bet their is another poll that says 75% of the people believe health care should be reformed tomorrow. This has to go threw and it will. There is too much of a push for it. It is happening, your guys will do their best to make sure it is watered down but when the Health care lobby has 2 million to spend a day on fighting it they really paint themselves into a corner. Either they are making too much and have money to throw around, or this is really scaring them. That's what Bill and Hillary Clinton thought too. Health care dollars are not about polls. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Riverwind Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 There was plenty of an up hill fight for Tommy Douglas and the CCF at the time too but they did it. Guess what? People were so happy that the Liberals federally stole it pushed it threw and the rest is history.Only because the Canadian system allows the government to do what it wants for 4 years. The US system requires that each invidual senate and representative vote be purchased with favours or outright cash. This is what the Dems did with the climate bill and what they will have to do for the health care bill. The result will be something that is changes nothing but shovels boatloads of cash into the pockets of special interests. Quote To fly a plane, you need both a left wing and a right wing.
punked Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 Tommy Douglas analogies won't work in the USA. Maybe they should, it is a hell of a story! That's what Bill and Hillary Clinton thought too. Health care dollars are not about polls. "We don't chose to do these things becuase they are easy, we chose to do them because they are hard." It is happening this time. Spending for the bill is matching the lobby against it, something that didn't happen during the Billary days. Something is coming down the pipe this time it wont die out. It has to happen though before the 2010 election because we started spending our political capital and we wont have any left by the time those elections happen. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 Maybe they should, it is a hell of a story! ....not for Americans.....Harry Truman championed national health programs in 1945. Yawn. "We don't chose to do these things becuase they are easy, we chose to do them because they are hard." I think you mean "choose" It is happening this time. Spending for the bill is matching the lobby against it, something that didn't happen during the Billary days. Something is coming down the pipe this time it wont die out. It has to happen though before the 2010 election because we started spending our political capital and we wont have any left by the time those elections happen. Who is we? Pelosi is telling Obama to slow down, not speed up. Kids! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
punked Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 ....not for Americans.....Harry Truman championed national health programs in 1945. Yawn. Yah I know Tommy was one of a kind eh? Who is we? Pelosi is telling Obama to slow down, not speed up. Kids! She is scared of 2010 too. Although history shows us that the Dems need to ram through stuff becuase once they do they don;t get a chance again for a long long time. Civil rights act anyone? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 Yah I know Tommy was one of a kind eh? One of a kind what? Socialist? Communist? There were others. She is scared of 2010 too. Although history shows us that the Dems need to ram through stuff becuase once they do they don;t get a chance again for a long long time. Civil rights act anyone? That's how the Founders wanted it. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
punked Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) One of a kind what? Socialist? Communist? There were others. You don't know much about Douglas do you? Spend within your means, pay down debt, take care of citizens. That's how the Founders wanted it. Yah well sometimes it all comes to a head. It will be a fight something is coming out of it though. Edited July 22, 2009 by punked Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 You don't know much about Douglas do you? Spend within your means, pay down debt, take care of citizens. You conveniently left out eugenics, sterilization of the mentally and physically challenged, etc. Wow...what a swell guy. Yah well sometimes it all comes to a head. It will be a fight something is coming out of it though. Sure...."free" health care will be great. Can't wait..... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
punked Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 You conveniently left out eugenics, sterilization of the mentally and physically challenged, etc.Wow...what a swell guy. That is because as health care minster he rejected those things 2 separate times. I never really bring up his fight against those things but yeah it was great he told his own caucus that those things weren't right and didn't lead SK down that road. You think he should have enacted that legislation both times he rejected it? Sure...."free" health care will be great. Can't wait..... Sweet. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 That is because as health care minster he rejected those things 2 separate times. I never really bring up his fight against those things but yeah it was great he told his own caucus that those things weren't right and didn't lead SK down that road. You think he should have enacted that legislation both times he rejected it? That's great....but earlier he was freakin' Nazi-in-training: The greatest Canadian of all time said we should sterilize mental defectives. Wait. Before you report this magazine to the human rights commission, or press hate crime charges for attempting to glorify some neo-Nazi or antiquated bigot, you should know this: we're talking about Tommy Douglas. The Tommy Douglas. The New Democrat pioneer. The socialist icon. The father of our vaunted medicare system. The man voted the Greatest Canadian of all time by CBC viewers. His 1933 master's thesis in sociology--"The Problems of the Subnormal Family"--staunchly advocated eugenics in the most merciless terms. And almost nobody dares mention anything about it. The Wikipedia online encyclopedia entry tells us Douglas "is warmly remembered for his folksy wit and oratory with which he expressed his steadfast idealism, exemplified by his fable of Mouseland . . . In 2004, he was voted 'The Greatest Canadian' of all time in a nationally televised contest organized by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation." Then the entry states baldly that he "completed his Master's degree (MA) in Sociology from McMaster University in 1933. His thesis was on eugenics as a solution for Canada's economic problems." One cannot simply dismiss these views as youthful folly; when he wrote it, he was nearly 30 years old. What a sweetheart he was......sheesh. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
punked Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) That's great....but earlier he was freakin' Nazi-in-training: The greatest Canadian of all time said we should sterilize mental defectives. Wait. Before you report this magazine to the human rights commission, or press hate crime charges for attempting to glorify some neo-Nazi or antiquated bigot, you should know this: we're talking about Tommy Douglas. The Tommy Douglas. The New Democrat pioneer. The socialist icon. The father of our vaunted medicare system. The man voted the Greatest Canadian of all time by CBC viewers. His 1933 master's thesis in sociology--"The Problems of the Subnormal Family"--staunchly advocated eugenics in the most merciless terms. And almost nobody dares mention anything about it. The Wikipedia online encyclopedia entry tells us Douglas "is warmly remembered for his folksy wit and oratory with which he expressed his steadfast idealism, exemplified by his fable of Mouseland . . . In 2004, he was voted 'The Greatest Canadian' of all time in a nationally televised contest organized by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation." Then the entry states baldly that he "completed his Master's degree (MA) in Sociology from McMaster University in 1933. His thesis was on eugenics as a solution for Canada's economic problems." One cannot simply dismiss these views as youthful folly; when he wrote it, he was nearly 30 years old. What a sweetheart he was......sheesh. "the multiplication of the feeble minded is a very dangerous thing to the Human race"-Chruchill as a delegate of the First conference on eugenics 1912 "Society has no business to permit degenerates to reproduce their kind.... Some day we will realize that the prime duty, the inescapable duty of the good citizen of the right type is to leave his blood behind him in the world, and that we have no business to perpetuate citizens of the wrong type."-Teddy Roosevelt Tommy sits with some pretty large leaders of the time who at one time embraced the theory of eugenics but soon came to see they were wrong. You have a problem with Churchill and Roosevelt? Deal with it Tommy twice shot down eugenics legislation saying "these are the people who need our help the most" then went on to make a type of care to help them. They were the very first to get Medicare. Sorry your attack is just wrong, sometimes ones action speak much loader then words. You can lie and try to fool whoever you want but the record shows while like many great leader he at one time embraced this he would later show how wrong he knew it was. As for the Nazi charge the CCF were the first party in Canada to say the Nazis were terrible and pressed Canada to stop trade with Nazi germany, not like Bush's GrandDad Nazi lover to his very soul. You can try to rewrite history all you want, but facts are hard to get around. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/2....secondworldwar Edited July 22, 2009 by punked Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) ...Tommy sits with some pretty large leaders of the time who at one time embraced the theory of eugenics but soon came to see they were wrong. You have a problem with Churchill and Roosevelt? Yes...I do. Deal with it Tommy twice shot down eugenics legislation saying "these are the people who need our help the most" then went on to make a type of care to help them. They were the very first to get Medicare. Sorry your attack is just wrong, sometimes ones action speak much loader then words. You can lie and try to fool whoever you want but the record shows while like many great leader he at one time embraced this he would later show how wrong he knew it was. ROTFLMAO....I am not lying...the record is clear. Your hero was a monster! As for the Nazi charge the CCF were the first party in Canada to say the Nazis were terrible and pressed Canada to stop trade with Nazi germany, not like Bush's GrandDad Nazi lover to his very soul. You can try to rewrite history all you want, but facts are hard to get around. Hard to hide that thesis 'bro....hope he got an A+ grade. Tommy Douglas is your hero...not mine. I don't have any commie heros. Edited July 22, 2009 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
punked Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) ROTFLMAO....I am not lying...the record is clear. Your hero was a monster! For rejecting eugenics legislation as Leader and making it so the mentally ill would be the first to get the help everyone at the time needed. Hard to hide that thesis 'bro....hope he got an A+ grade. I am not hiding it. It is right their in plan sight, his actual record is their in plan sight too. No eugenics legislation even though other provinces and states were passing them. AND he provided help to those who he once said eugenics should be done upon? Like it or not he was wrong he showed he was wrong by doing the opposite of what he said and he didn't deal with the Nazis like your guys GrandDaddy eh? Tough; time to eat it. Health care reform baby. Edited July 22, 2009 by punked Quote
punked Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 Tommy Douglas is your hero...not mine. I don't have any commie heros. I don't have commie heros either. The CCF kicked the commies out of the party it was the Liberals who cut a deal with the commies. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) For rejecting eugenics legislation as Leader and making it so the mentally ill would be the first to get the help everyone at the time needed. No...for proposing sterilizations in his master's thesis. Duh! (Did I mention the "camps" ?) I am not hiding it. It is right their in plan sight, his actual record is their in plan sight too. No eugenics legislation even though other provinces and states were passing them. AND he provided help to those who he once said eugenics should be done upon? Like it or not he was wrong he showed he was wrong by doing the opposite of what he said and he didn't deal with the Nazis like your guys GrandDaddy eh? Tough time to eat it. Correct...he was wrong. Why do you keep squirming about it. He saw the light after graduate work in Chicago...that's in the USA don'tchaknow. Health care reform baby. CommieCare baby! Edited July 22, 2009 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
punked Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 No...for proposing sterilizations in his master's thesis. Duh! Being wrong does not make someone a monster. Helping millions of sick people might make up for a stuipd idea that was pushed by many people at the time. He was more a product of time then anything else. Correct...he was wrong. Why do you keep squirming about it. He saw the light after graduate work in Chicago...that's in the USA don'tchaknow. Pretty sure he did his graduate work in Chicago before he wrote his masters thesis. I think he saw the light when he went to Nazi Germany, and helped the war effort in WW2. CommieCare baby! Call it what you will as long as it gets done. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 Being wrong does not make someone a monster. Helping millions of sick people might make up for a stuipd idea that was pushed by many people at the time. He was more a product of time then anything else. More excuses....if he is so wonderful, why doesn't Obama run a few Tommy ads? LOL! Pretty sure he did his graduate work in Chicago before he wrote his masters thesis. I think he saw the light when he went to Nazi Germany, and helped the war effort in WW2. One "Oh Shit!" kills a thousand "Attaboys". Call it what you will as long as it gets done. Why do you care either way? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
punked Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 More excuses....if he is so wonderful, why doesn't Obama run a few Tommy ads? LOL! Maybe he should. The medical insurance lobby spent 200 000 dollars in the "save our doctors" strike. The CCF spent none and won another majority. One "Oh Shit!" kills a thousand "Attaboys". What are you talking about the CCF and Tommy were the first political party in North America to come out against the Nazis while your boy Bush was getting rich supplying with eveything they needed to kill them some Jews. Why do you care either way? Why do you? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) Maybe he should. The medical insurance lobby spent 200 000 dollars in the "save our doctors" strike. The CCF spent none and won another majority. Tommy Who? What are you talking about the CCF and Tommy were the first political party in North America to come out against the Nazis while your boy Bush was getting rich supplying with eveything they needed to kill them some Jews. Nobody on the world stage gave a crap about some obscure farmer's commie party in Saskatchewan. Still don't. Why do you? Health care stocks....I like to make money...unlike Tommy Commies. I actually live in the USA.... Edited July 22, 2009 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
punked Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 Health care stocks....I like to make money...unlike Tommy Commies.I actually live in the USA.... I thought competition and the free market was superdooper? I guess as long as medical insurance companies work together to keep rates high and you make money that is just fine with you. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 I thought competition and the free market was superdooper? I guess as long as medical insurance companies work together to keep rates high and you make money that is just fine with you. Correct...health care is like any other service. It is not a constitutional right. Go to Sudan and try to get an MRI. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
punked Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 Correct...health care is like any other service. It is not a constitutional right. Neither is a fire department or Roads yet somehow the government runs those. Go to Sudan and try to get an MRI. What does have to do with anything? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Posted July 22, 2009 Neither is a fire department or Roads yet somehow the government runs those. But I can still contract fire protection, and do for a lake cabin ("cottage" in Canuckspeak). Private toll roads and bridges also exist. Health care professionals are not state slaves. No wonder Canuck doctors and nurses flee south. What does have to do with anything? Your utopian world rests rests upon the capital and sweat of economic growth, not communism. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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