Ontario Pushes Electric Cars as Auto Sector Boost

[tango]

As I said, there's only so far you can go on small, neighborhood streets that have 30-40k speed limits without using a street which has a much higher speed limit. I know of no stores, other than maybe a Macs Milk, that is not on a street with a 60k limit.

That's the maximum speed.

What's the minimum?

How could there possibly even be a minimum, given city congestion?

I could go everywhere in my city without any problem at all, and I think in Toronto too, just by scoping out routes on back streets - which I do anyway.

edit- ps ... You must live in the suburbs and shop at the malls, Argus. "No stores" ??? Simply not true. I'm talking about downtown in cities, where the lack of O2 from exhaust fumes is most apparent and most in need of remediation.

Edited July 19, 2009 by tango

[capricorn]

Will using taxpayer dollars to subsidize electric cars manufactured in the US help Ontario become a leader in this sector and create jobs in the province's auto sector? I doubt it.

First, why would Ontario taxpayers want to subsidize the purchase of a car that is manufactured in the United States? What's that do for jobs in our own auto industry? Making the batteries for electric cars will be a growth industry, but the Volt's battery pack is made in the U.S., too. McGuinty's announcement speaks of Ontario becoming "a world leader" in building electric cars, but there is nothing in his plan that will take us in that direction.

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One has to remember, of course, that Ontario owns 3.8 per cent of GM. What's good for General Motors is good for the Ontario government, to twist the old saying. You hate to think that your premier is a shill for a particular car company, but there it is.

The Volt is expected to cost about $40,000, which prices it out of the market for most people. Even with the $10,000 bribe, the car will be unaffordable for a lot of Ontarians.

There is a reason why you see so many Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas on the road in this province. It's not because we love small cars. It's because we can't afford the Accords and Camrys the Americans prefer. With McGuinty's latest announcement, people who can't afford electric cars will be subsidizing those who can. Sound fair?

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Plug-in electric cars are intriguing and the idea of being able to commute to work entirely on battery power is pretty cool, but the first people to buy Volts are being asked to take quite a risk. They involve an unproven technology from a company that has just been extracted from the jaws of bankruptcy.

The batteries of the Volt are expected to last five to eight years, which might be longer than GM itself, but that's a real issue for the consumer. A modern car should last at least 15 years. Battery-dependent vehicles will either become junk in half that time or owners will have to pay thousands of dollars for battery replacement. Even with the government handout, that's a huge disincentive to buy.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/Ra...5587/story.html

Rather than handing out hefty rebates, I would have preferred a pilot project where the Ontario government lease or purchase a few of those Volts for their vehicle fleet. I think that would have cost the Ontario taxpayers less in the long run, and the effectiveness of the Volt could have been measured before actually luring Ontarians into unproven and untested territory.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Will using taxpayer dollars to subsidize electric cars manufactured in the US help Ontario become a leader in this sector and create jobs in the province's auto sector? I doubt it.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/Ra...5587/story.html

Rather than handing out hefty rebates, I would have preferred a pilot project where the Ontario government lease or purchase a few of those Volts for their vehicle fleet. I think that would have cost the Ontario taxpayers less in the long run, and the effectiveness of the Volt could have been measured before actually luring Ontarians into unproven and untested territory.

The government who is indebted to the banks has been convinced to provide corporate welfare to the customers of the banks. Nice little system we have started. We get the tax payer into hawk to prove that the company can have sales so the company can go into hawk. The only winner here is the bank.

[tango]

The government who is indebted to the banks has been convinced to provide corporate welfare to the customers of the banks. Nice little system we have started. We get the tax payer into hawk to prove that the company can have sales so the company can go into hawk. The only winner here is the bank.

Like I said, it's a scam, and a sop to the 905er commuters.

Who benefits?

Certainly not us.

David Crombie and his buds will certainly benefit from the monopoly on the battery stations though. Think McGuinty and other pols have a piece of that action? I'd bet on it.

[zinc]

Does anyone else but me think that electric cars are the inevitable? It's going to happen, why procrastinate so much?

[Wild Bill]

Does anyone else but me think that electric cars are the inevitable? It's going to happen, why procrastinate so much?

The issues are simple:

What do they cost?

Are they safe on today's roads?

Do they have enough range on one charge to do a round trip to work and some driving in the evening?

So far the answers to these questions haven't been very pleasing.

If you view that as procrastination, perhaps you'd be good enough to go first?

[Guest Syrupee]

Will using taxpayer dollars to subsidize electric cars manufactured in the US help Ontario become a leader in this sector and create jobs in the province's auto sector? I doubt it.

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/technology/Ra...5587/story.html

Rather than handing out hefty rebates, I would have preferred a pilot project where the Ontario government lease or purchase a few of those Volts for their vehicle fleet. I think that would have cost the Ontario taxpayers less in the long run, and the effectiveness of the Volt could have been measured before actually luring Ontarians into unproven and untested territory.

Totally agree. Let's not forget the Ontario government owns a chunk of GM now with their bailout bucks. Rather than peddle the Volt and other vehicles with the 10k incentive. Lead by example, practice what you preach and make the government employee & services pilot the project.

[segnosaur]

Does anyone else but me think that electric cars are the inevitable? It's going to happen, why procrastinate so much?

Why exactly do you think that electiric cars are 'inevitable'? Its not the only potential technology.

Right now there's a lot of research into biofuels. Granted, growing corn to produce ethanol is not a terribly productive use of our resources, but there are companies working on ways to produce either oil or ethanol from algae. If they are successful, there would be many benefits when compared to electric cars:

- it might be possible to continue using our current infractructure (including our current network of gas stations) without relying on enhancing the electric grid or finding ways to recharge vehicles

- No need to overcome problems with speed/performance. Cars can be made with the same standards they are now

There is also the possibility that hydrogen technology may become the most successful alternative. There is a problem of fuel storage and efficient generation of hydrogen, but those problems aren't significantly more serious than the problems surrounding electric cars.

Its possible that all this effort to push electric cars may lead us in the wrong direction from what the ultimate solution will be.

[Craig1]

Wild Bill do a google search.... the Volt may be a piece of junk but their are many good Electric vehicle manufacturers in the UK that go 400km on a single charge and are faster than any gasoline vehicle, watch mythbusters and how the eclectic atv's are way out performing the gas atv.

Satety can be a concern but i can tell you a volt going 40 km a hour as to a semi truck going 40km wich one do you think is more safe? unless of course your the one piloting the truck your victum is more than dead but also a pancake but i know many gas cars that wouldn't take the brunt of impact as well. With gas engines your suseptable to explosions and fire upon impact unlike an electric car

obviously the volt will be a piece of junk its got government and lobbyist intervening they killed the Volt once before and will do it again, thats why i will not buy American and why we need more foriegn dealers allowed into America to sell its products. IMO

[bush_cheney2004]

obviously the volt will be a piece of junk its got government and lobbyist intervening they killed the Volt once before and will do it again, thats why i will not buy American and why we need more foriegn dealers allowed into America to sell its products. IMO

I can buy and license a ZENN car right now in America....it is made in Canada.....so much for that theory.

[Craig1]

I can buy and license a ZENN car right now in America....it is made in Canada.....so much for that theory.

that peice of junk cant go farther than 50 miles on a charge and does tops of 35 mph.

check out the Tesla roadster and compare. http://www.teslamotors.com/ up to 300 mile range, 0-60 in 3.9 sec.

[bush_cheney2004]

that peice of junk cant go farther than 50 miles on a charge and does tops of 35 mph.

I don't need it to go farther than 50 miles on a charge in an urban core.

check out the Tesla roadster and compare. http://www.teslamotors.com/ up to 300 mile range, 0-60 in 3.9 sec.

No kidding....the last I checked, California was still in the USA.

[Craig1]

I don't need it to go farther than 50 miles on a charge in an urban core.

No kidding....the last I checked, California was still in the USA.

Canada is also a part of America, not that you make a valid point but allot of technology is banned from purchase, or prohibited from grants and tax credits in Canada mostly anything of the environmentally clined. My trip to the U.K really opened my eyes and it beats the heck out of me why we Canadians operate the way we do specially with technology like the WisperGen where it makes any electrical feed to a house not fesable, and a thousand times cheaper... we can all run off just gas. We have tax credits for home reno's but try getting a hot water solar panel and getting the government to reimbers you for it, you can't, I can build one but you think they would credit me the materials?. We build coal power plants when we have the technology of SunCatchers built on precise stirling Technology, specially in my home of the Oilsands we have some of the most sun in the world why arn't the goverment subsidizing this?. I won't disagree things are starting to change but lobbyists do interfere with consumer choice and our politicians play a huge role also.

ps.

Another miss conseption is of the steam engine they say its polluting but I have built one that powers my dads garage I use a parabolic mirror to focal sun rays on a solar catcher in turn produces steam I can run 400 watts with such small engine recycled from a old 4 stroke lawnmower engine. I have a friend who works at a car dealership as a mechanioc and they throw away good battery's all the time 5 minutes of referbishing and they almost as good as new so I just store all that power in battery;s. Was funny last week druriong the big storm neighbors had no power for 30 hours and we didn't miss a beat we had more than enouph power. All we need is a electric car

[Craig1]

Canada is also a part of America, not that you make a valid point but allot of technology is banned from purchase, or prohibited from grants and tax credits in Canada mostly anything of the environmentally clined. My trip to the U.K really opened my eyes and it beats the heck out of me why we Canadians operate the way we do specially with technology like the WisperGen where it makes any electrical feed to a house not fesable, and a thousand times cheaper... we can all run off just gas. We have tax credits for home reno's but try getting a hot water solar panel and getting the government to reimbers you for it, you can't, I can build one but you think they would credit me the materials?. We build coal power plants when we have the technology of SunCatchers built on precise stirling Technology, specially in my home of the Oilsands we have some of the most sun in the world why arn't the goverment subsidizing this?. I won't disagree things are starting to change but lobbyists do interfere with consumer choice and our politicians play a huge role also.

ps.

Another miss conseption is of the steam engine they say its polluting but I have built one that powers my dads garage I use a parabolic mirror to focal sun rays on a solar catcher in turn produces steam I can run 400 watts with such small engine recycled from a old 4 stroke lawnmower engine. I have a friend who works at a car dealership as a mechanioc and they throw away good battery's all the time 5 minutes of referbishing and they almost as good as new so I just store all that power in battery;s. Was funny last week druriong the big storm neighbors had no power for 30 hours and we didn't miss a beat we had more than enouph power. All we need is a electric car

Another cool thing if you can't afford battery's use the exess power to make hydrogen and store it, self suficient homes are possible and should become a norm

[Wild Bill]

Another cool thing if you can't afford battery's use the exess power to make hydrogen and store it, self suficient homes are possible and should become a norm

The problem with car batteries is that they can't handle being deeply discharged often. They are designed to be constantly recharged by a car's alternator. So if you have to drain it deeply when you go for a long time without sun or wind the battery soon becomes useless.

If you have a connection with a place that services electric golf carts they often have lots of older deep discharge batteries. These batteries tend to "sulphate" up as they age. Often they will give them to you to avoid having to dispose of them in an environmentally approved fashion!

Do a google on lead acid battery "de-sulphaters" or "rejuvenators" and you will come up with some electronic circuits that can make these batteries useful again. They would be excellent batteries for an off-grid power setup.

[madmax]

The problem with car batteries is that they can't handle being deeply discharged often. They are designed to be constantly recharged by a car's alternator. So if you have to drain it deeply when you go for a long time without sun or wind the battery soon becomes useless.

If you have a connection with a place that services electric golf carts they often have lots of older deep discharge batteries. These batteries tend to "sulphate" up as they age. Often they will give them to you to avoid having to dispose of them in an environmentally approved fashion!

Do a google on lead acid battery "de-sulphaters" or "rejuvenators" and you will come up with some electronic circuits that can make these batteries useful again. They would be excellent batteries for an off-grid power setup.

Ditto...

So... what solutions are out there?