Ontario Pushes Electric Cars as Auto Sector Boost

GostHacked · July 16, 2009

I think we need a more useful and better subsidized public transit system. Transferring our mobile needs strictly to electricity, when we are base-loading with natural gas, isn't really going to change much. We need more nuclear in the mix, but then again, the wind and gas industry are the only ones with tongues in Smithermens' ear right now!!!

Check out Vancouver's public transit system. Many busses are electric, and even all the cabs I saw where hybrids.

Something can and is being done about it.

Those worried about more coal or nuclear emmissions should take comfort in the fact that there is less carbon monoxide emissions. There are smart ways about doing this. But profit sometimes does not equall smart.

GostHacked · July 16, 2009

There's always the Piaggio Ape....but there's a price tag to it being so cute and all.

looks that thing will snap like a twig with a 5MPH impact.

AngusThermopyle · July 16, 2009

Yep, the Piaggio certainly does look like a particularly craptacular POS indeed.

Piaggio POS

stranger little · July 16, 2009

Check out Vancouver's public transit system. Many busses are electric, and even all the cabs I saw where hybrids.
Something can and is being done about it.

Those worried about more coal or nuclear emmissions should take comfort in the fact that there is less carbon monoxide emissions. There are smart ways about doing this. But profit sometimes does not equall smart.

actually nuclear emits no carbon while creating energy.

AngusThermopyle · July 16, 2009

actually nuclear emits no carbon while creating energy.

How true and theres just that pesky little non issue of spent fuel rods to deal with when you go Nuke.

Back to electric cars, here's a nice one.

Tesla Roadster

Edited July 16, 2009 by AngusThermopyle

Dave_ON · July 17, 2009

How true and theres just that pesky little non issue of spent fuel rods to deal with when you go Nuke.
Back to electric cars, here's a nice one.

Tesla Roadster

Indeed it is an impressive machine and it should be for 129k. Let's see with my 10k rebate that's a mere 119k, think I'll buy two at that price! The specs are pretty impressive though, 0-60 in 3.9 seconds. As i understand it the latest model can do it in 3.7.

For those who are interested check out this link.

http://www.teslamotors.com/buy/buyshowroom.php

And for more info

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster

tango · July 17, 2009

There's always the Piaggio Ape....but there's a price tag to it being so cute and all.

The low speed, low cost electric cars that are perfect for the city will not be certified for use in Canada. Get my point? We're forced to buy the big honkin EXPENSIVE electricity guzzlers that suit 905 commuters. (And those who have a piece of the action, I must add.)

We don't need commuter cars if we live in the city. We need cheap small city cars.

But they are forcing everyone into the expensive market.

That's why I think it's a stinking corrupt kickback/monopoly scam, imo.

Otherwise, we would already have our cities full of these little cars and the air would be much better already.

Bonam · July 17, 2009

The low speed, low cost electric cars that are perfect for the city will not be certified for use in Canada. Get my point? We're forced to buy the big honkin EXPENSIVE electricity guzzlers that suit 905 commuters. (And those who have a piece of the action, I must add.)
We don't need commuter cars if we live in the city. We need cheap small city cars.

But they are forcing everyone into the expensive market.

That's why I think it's a stinking corrupt kickback/monopoly scam, imo.

Otherwise, we would already have our cities full of these little cars and the air would be much better already.

I disagree. Just about everyone goes out on the highways at least periodically. That means they need to have a car capable of traveling on them. If they have a car that is just for the city and can only go up to 60 km/h or whatever, then they need to own two cars. Not only is that more expensive and takes up much more space (i.e. need bigger garages everywhere), but the energy and materials expended in building the second car far outweigh the reduction in energy use by having the somewhat less energy-hungry car available for your city trips.

Do you have any idea how much energy it takes to build a car? From the starting point of extracting the raw materials from mines, to refining them into metals, to producing all the electronics and structural components, assembling it all together, powering the facilities that do it, etc, it is an immense amount.

Furthermore, with electric cars, you hardly save anything by having a smaller motor, since you can just use a bigger electric motor and run less current through it, at a very similar efficiency (depending on the motor). Unless you can substantially reduce the car's mass AND it's aerodynamic cross-section, you won't be saving much energy. And you can't really reduce either much, as there are safety standards that must be satisfied and expectations of features, roominess, aesthetics, and comfort that consumers have.

Edited July 17, 2009 by Bonam

capricorn · July 18, 2009

The government also commits to purchasing 500 EVs for the
Ontario public service fleet and to the installation of charge spots at

Ontario Government and GO Transit locations, which helps to encourage industry

to produce fully electric cars and install infrastructure to enable their

adoption.

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive...9/15/c6365.html

If Ontario government buildings and facilities are equipped which charge spots for owners to plug and re-charge their cars, who will pay the cost of the electricity? Big spending Dalton will probably ding taxpayers for it. It's the environmentally friendly way to go, don't you know?

Argus · July 18, 2009

Leaving aside the usability of electric cars Ontario does not have enough power for its normal, everyday uses NOW. It has to buy a lot from the US, and its plans to build new nuclear plants just went down the toilet. McGuinty thought he could get someone to build a couple of giant nuclear plants for $6 billion. But the bids are more like $20-25 billion. His solution? He'll ask the federal government to make AECL lower its price to $6 billion! That's in fact, his only idea, and his only effort at "planning" for Ontario's future energy needs.

And now he wants to start paying people $10k per unit to add cars to our electric grid?!

Shady · July 18, 2009

The low speed, low cost electric cars that are perfect for the city

Just because you say they're perfect for the city, doesn't mean it's true.

I feel for the government official, who waives safety restrictions for those cars to be sold, and then gets held responsible for an epidemic of auto deaths.

BTW, in Ontario we don't pay the actual cost of electricity. If we did pay the real cost (which is much higher), it would add some reality to the conversation.

Argus · July 18, 2009

Skip the Indian one then. But why can't we use the small ones in the city?
It's mostly pedestrians killed in the cities.

What's the top speed of these little cars?

tango · July 18, 2009

What's the top speed of these little cars?

Around 50k - fine for smaller city streets. There are streets I wouldn't take one on, where the commuters are gunning on or off the highway.

I'm retired. I'm not in a hurry. And I belong to the largest demographic of retired people ever, and we want our cheap putt-a-bouts!

I think we're going to have to protest for them, though. Watch out! Here come the raging grannies! beep beep! :lol:

Horses and buggies are allowed on the road (with plates and a slow moving vehicle sign). Maybe we'll get horses to pull our EV buggies to Queens Park. :lol:

Hiyo Silver!

http://www.blogto.com/environment/2007/06/...t_them_sell_it/

Toronto Company Has Electric Car But Our Government Won't Let Them Sell It

There is huge pent-up demand for these types of vehicles. Enviro-conscious consumers (growing by the numbers every day) are desperate for a cost-effective, realistic solution to help them curb vehicle emissions and the ZENN electric car, at a retail price of approximately $14,000 has the potential to be it.

Unlike hybrid-vehicles, the ZENN electric car eliminates the need for petroleum completely and outside of high-end, impossible to get models like the Tesla Roadster is the best solution on the market. And from a Toronto-company to-boot! And if that's still not good enough consider the noise reduction that could result if electric cars were widely adopted. These vehicles are essentially silent.

Edited July 18, 2009 by tango

bush_cheney2004 · July 18, 2009

actually nuclear emits no carbon while creating energy.

True, but does emit many thousands of tonnes during the complete nuclear fuel cycle.

Shady · July 18, 2009

http://www.blogto.com/environment/2007/06/...t_them_sell_it/
Toronto Company Has Electric Car But Our Government Won't Let Them Sell It

There is huge pent-up demand for these types of vehicles.

That link is from 2007. Apparently the car is available for purchase in the U.S. If there's a so-called pent-up demand, then it must be doing relatively well. But somehow, I doubt it.

*edit*

Apparently it sells for around $25,000, and has a top speed of 40 km/hr.

Edited July 18, 2009 by Shady

Bonam · July 18, 2009

And if that's still not good enough consider the noise reduction that could result if electric cars were widely adopted. These vehicles are essentially silent.[/i]

Cars that are actually silent are required to build in specific noise generators, as a safety feature. Silent cars pose additional risks to pedestrians, cyclists, etc, as they cannot hear them coming. So there wouldn't be a noise reduction.

madmax · July 18, 2009

if Ontario government buildings and facilities are equipped which charge spots for owners to plug and re-charge their cars, who will pay the cost of the electricity? Big spending Dalton will probably ding taxpayers for it. It's the environmentally friendly way to go, don't you know?

During a hot summer citizens AC units can create brownouts. We could build a nuclear or coal generator to power the cars, but this kinda defeats the purpose.

Batteries are going to be a nightmare to dispense with.

Other then that.. not bad considering..

madmax · July 18, 2009

Cars that are actually silent are required to build in specific noise generators...,

All cars have radios.. :lol:

madmax · July 18, 2009

But the bids are more like $20-25 billion. His solution? He'll ask the federal government to make AECL lower its price to $6 billion!

No... his solution to paying the costs for a Nuclear Generator is to get the Federal Government to share the burden. Regardless, it is the tax payer that is paying for this albatross.

Argus · July 19, 2009

Around 50k - fine for smaller city streets. There are streets I wouldn't take one on, where the commuters are gunning on or off the highway.
I'm retired. I'm not in a hurry. And I belong to the largest demographic of retired people ever, and we want our cheap putt-a-bouts!

50? I don't want them on the roads, then. Too bloody many idiots will be taking these golf carts out onto the cross-city roads, all of which have 60k speed limits (effectively 70-75) and clogging traffic. You're not in a hurry? I'm trying to think of how I would drive anywhere but my local corner store in one of those things - and failing. Every major street has a 60k speed limit. I'm not talking highways here, or even the parkways which are at 80k. Some roads move up and down from 50k - 80k depending on what they're passing through.

Shady · July 19, 2009

50?

According to the link that was provided, it's actually 40 km/hour. So you're right, they can't even come close to the minimum speed limit. I predict a 1,000,000% rise in road rage.

tango · July 19, 2009

According to the link that was provided, it's actually 40 km/hour. So you're right, they can't even come close to the minimum speed limit. I predict a 1,000,000% rise in road rage.

You are missing the point. These are city cars, not commuter cars.

Just for us folks who have time to spare to putter about town doing our errands.

Problem is, Ontario refuses to license them, because they don't want to have two sets of standards, and I think that sucks.

Bonam · July 19, 2009

You are missing the point. These are city cars, not commuter cars.
Just for us folks who have time to spare to putter about town doing our errands.

Problem is, Ontario refuses to license them, because they don't want to have two sets of standards, and I think that sucks.

Sorry but a car that can only go 40 km/h shouldn't even be driving in the city. You'd totally enrage people with a car like that.

tango · July 19, 2009

Sorry but a car that can only go 40 km/h shouldn't even be driving in the city. You'd totally enrage people with a car like that.

There are others that will do the city speed limit, and that's the kind I want.

But the province won't allow two standards for 'cars'. They will only allow ones that have more capacity than many people need, and are much more expensive than many people can afford.

To me, it's a scam.

Argus · July 19, 2009

You are missing the point. These are city cars, not commuter cars.
Just for us folks who have time to spare to putter about town doing our errands.

Problem is, Ontario refuses to license them, because they don't want to have two sets of standards, and I think that sucks.

As I said, there's only so far you can go on small, neighborhood streets that have 30-40k speed limits without using a street which has a much higher speed limit. I know of no stores, other than maybe a Macs Milk, that is not on a street with a 60k limit.