Tim Hortons moves back to Canada

[Sir Bandelot]

Parent company Tim Hortons Inc. (TSX:THI) announced Monday it has filed documents in the United States that would shift its corporate ownership back north of the border. Its current Canadian headquarters is in Oakville, Ont., west of Toronto.

The company says the move - which it had said it was considering earlier this year - will save on taxes and make international expansion easier.

The migration back to Canada will allow Tim Hortons to reap benefits of the lower federal tax structure that was announced last year by Finance Minister Jim Flaherty.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2009/06...9969361-cp.html

Interesting... Why is it suddenly more attractive to operate out of Canada. Of course, the corporate whores have no loyalty to borders, only the almighty dollar.

Maybe now we can get a decent donut at Tims again... they really became crap over the last few years.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Sir Bandelot

[Shady]

OTTAWA -- In a clear indication that Canada is starting to be considered a low-tax place to do business, Tim Hortons Inc. announced Monday plans to shift its base of operations from Delaware to Canada for tax purposes.

Further, analysts indicate this is also a sign of unease among corporations regarding the U.S. business environment, where taxes are likely heading upward to deal with trillion-dollar deficits and proposed health-care reforms; and the White House is looking to crack down on companies that invest abroad.

In Canada, the federal corporate tax rate is headed to 15% in 2012, and the federal Conservative government has called on the provinces to get to a 10% business levy by the same timeframe – for a combined 25% rate on corporate income. Alberta is already at 10%, British Columbia will be there in 2011, Ontario by 2013, and New Brunswick will go down further, to 8%, in 2012.

In the United States, the top corporate tax rate is in the mid-30% range. As a result, the U.S. now has about the highest combined corporate tax rate, second only to Japan among industrialized countries.

“If the U.S. tightens up on the tax treatment on foreign income, many Canadian companies — as well as other foreign entities operating in the U.S. – might look to put headquarters and holding company functions in Canada since dividends from foreign affiliates are not taxed by Canada,” said Jack Mintz, a public policy expert from the University of Calgary and a renowned tax expert.

Link

It's good to see that Canada is being placed in a very good position regarding the global economy, especialy going forward, and especially as other countries raise their taxes to cover foolish spending, such as Obama's and Brown's spending disasters.

Congratulations to Mr. Harper, and congratulations to Canadians. On a side note, this type of story proves thoroughly that the NDP would be an absolute disaster with federal power, and would contribute greatly to Canada's economic demise, seeing as raising corporate and business taxes, and raising personal income taxes is what much of their economic platform is based upon.

[Sir Bandelot]

Congratulations to Mr. Harper, and congratulations to Canadians.

Yeah good on him. Maybe now we can get a decent donut in this town.

I posted the same thing today, maybe the two threads can be merged.

[punked]

OTTAWA -- In a clear indication that Canada is starting to be considered a low-tax place to do business, Tim Hortons Inc. announced Monday plans to shift its base of operations from Delaware to Canada for tax purposes.

Further, analysts indicate this is also a sign of unease among corporations regarding the U.S. business environment, where taxes are likely heading upward to deal with trillion-dollar deficits and proposed health-care reforms; and the White House is looking to crack down on companies that invest abroad.

In Canada, the federal corporate tax rate is headed to 15% in 2012, and the federal Conservative government has called on the provinces to get to a 10% business levy by the same timeframe – for a combined 25% rate on corporate income. Alberta is already at 10%, British Columbia will be there in 2011, Ontario by 2013, and New Brunswick will go down further, to 8%, in 2012.

In the United States, the top corporate tax rate is in the mid-30% range. As a result, the U.S. now has about the highest combined corporate tax rate, second only to Japan among industrialized countries.

“If the U.S. tightens up on the tax treatment on foreign income, many Canadian companies — as well as other foreign entities operating in the U.S. – might look to put headquarters and holding company functions in Canada since dividends from foreign affiliates are not taxed by Canada,” said Jack Mintz, a public policy expert from the University of Calgary and a renowned tax expert.

Link

It's good to see that Canada is being placed in a very good position regarding the global economy, especialy going forward, and especially as other countries raise their taxes to cover foolish spending, such as Obama's and Brown's spending disasters.

Congratulations to Mr. Harper, and congratulations to Canadians. On a side note, this type of story proves thoroughly that the NDP would be an absolute disaster with federal power, and would contribute greatly to Canada's economic demise, seeing as raising corporate and business taxes, and raising personal income taxes is what much of their economic platform is based upon.

Really after 15 years of trying to break into the American market Tim Horton's is moving back to Canada. Let's face it this isn't a Tax problem they just could not make head way in the American market so they are moving their base of operations back closer to their operations. I am not shocked and it is not evidence of anything.

[bush_cheney2004]

Really after 15 years of trying to break into the American market Tim Horton's is moving back to Canada. Let's face it this isn't a Tax problem they just could not make head way in the American market so they are moving their base of operations back closer to their operations. I am not shocked and it is not evidence of anything.

The only evidence that matters is marketshare and sales....

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/07/...in5069548.shtml

Timmy's has no brand advantage in the USA compared to Canada.

Edited June 30, 2009 by bush_cheney2004

[benny]

The company says the move will save on tax. Different tax rates across countries should be considered like different subsidy policies across countries. Both higher subsidies and lower taxes than those existing in other countries can be the cause of international trade wars, especially if a country lower its workers and environmental protection standards to attract investors.

Edited June 30, 2009 by benny

[bush_cheney2004]

.... especially if a country lower its workers and environmental protection standards to attract investors.

You mean...like....China ?

[benny]

You mean...like....China ?

No need to name names at this point.

[Sir Bandelot]

Jack Layton: "There's no bread!"

Stephen Harper: "Let them eat donuts."

Edited June 30, 2009 by Sir Bandelot

[benny]

Jack Layton: "There's no bread!"

Stephen Harper: "Let them eat donuts."

Promoting donuts may mean: increases in healthcare cost.

[msj]

What's laughable is the amnesia that goes on - Stephen Harper's tax cuts my a$$.

Let's look at the federal rate for select years for a Public Corporation:

2000 - 29.12%

2003 - 24.12%

2005 - 22.12%

2008 - 19.50%

What's key is that for those of us who pay attention to budgets and economic statements knew that the Liberals had proposed to continue cutting corporate tax rates down to 19% by 2010 while eliminating capital taxes and the surtax.

Then the CPC came along and continued the schedule before issuing their own economic statement in 2006 where they announced that trusts will cease to exist (with some exceptions for REITs) and will become taxable starting in 2011. This increase in taxation for businesses led to pension splitting for seniors and an acceleration of the proposed corporate tax cuts and an increase to the corporate tax cuts (to 18.5% by 2011).

Then in 2007, still feeling the heat over the trust issue, it was announced that corporate tax rates would go down to 15% by 2012.

Of course, Timmies could have become a trust at any time in Canada and realized the benefits prior to the CPC's tax increase.

Instead, we see a slow decrease by both the LPC and CPC and neither party deserves any accolades for the painfully slow decrease to corporate tax rates in Canada.

The CPC also standout for their 180 degree turn on trusts.

[benny]

The CPC also standout for their 180 degree turn on trusts.

Getting rid of this trust-loophole was the right thing to do since its main argument (i.e. double taxation) was bogus.

[msj]

Getting rid of this trust-loophole was the right thing to do since its main argument (i.e. double taxation) was bogus.

Of course if it was the right thing to do then the CPC never would have extended corporate tax cuts nor put through the Liberal policy on eligible dividends (i.e. reduce taxes on dividends from Canadian companies that pay tax at the top corporate tax rates) - both policies that alleviate "double" taxation (a better word would be to "integrate" taxes between individuals and corporate and trusts).

edited to add: If "double/integration" taxation was not an issue then the CPC also would not be proposing to increase the taxation of eligible dividends in personal hands because corporate tax rates are going down.

That is, since the corporate tax rate is going down they must increase the tax on eligible dividends to properly integrate taxes between corporations and individuals.

See taxtips for more info on what these rates will be.

Edited July 1, 2009 by msj

[benny]

Of course if it was the right thing to do then the CPC never would have extended corporate tax cuts nor put through the Liberal policy on eligible dividends (i.e. reduce taxes on dividends from Canadian companies that pay tax at the top corporate tax rates) - both policies that alleviate "double" taxation (a better word would be to "integrate" taxes between individuals and corporate and trusts).

edited to add: If "double/integration" taxation was not an issue then the CPC also would not be proposing to increase the taxation of eligible dividends in personal hands because corporate tax rates are going down.

That is, since the corporate tax rate is going down they must increase the tax on eligible dividends to properly integrate taxes between corporations and individuals.

See taxtips for more info on what these rates will be.

In order to avoid cross-posting, I have posted my general principle on fair taxation here:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....mp;#entry436703

[geoffrey]

MSJ is correct. It's really a bunch of non-sense, the CPC cuts that is.

Tim Horton's isn't moving to Canada because of Harper. They are fleeing the US because of Obama. The tax increases your about to see on corporations in the US over the next 4-8 years will be staggering.

Canada is a much superior place to do business TODAY. It wasn't a few years ago. There's a combination of Repulican and Democrat issues there, but the reality is, the US needs to raise taxes substantially in the near term just to fund their debt and other unfunded state liabilities (medicare, etc.).

[Sir Bandelot]

MSJ is correct. It's really a bunch of non-sense, the CPC cuts that is.

Tim Horton's isn't moving to Canada because of Harper. They are fleeing the US because of Obama. The tax increases your about to see on corporations in the US over the next 4-8 years will be staggering.

Canada is a much superior place to do business TODAY. It wasn't a few years ago. There's a combination of Repulican and Democrat issues there, but the reality is, the US needs to raise taxes substantially in the near term just to fund their debt and other unfunded state liabilities (medicare, etc.).

That seems to make sense. In any case it will be good for Canada, but could be another nail in the coffin for the USA.

[bush_cheney2004]

That seems to make sense. In any case it will be good for Canada, but could be another nail in the coffin for the USA.

Oh my....the US is surely doomed because Timmy's is scurrying back to Canada. LOL!

[Sir Bandelot]

Oh my....the US is surely doomed because Timmy's is scurrying back to Canada. LOL!

What, because you think Crispy Creems are better?

Let the donut wars begin...

[benny]

Tim Horton's isn't moving to Canada because of Harper. They are fleeing the US because of Obama. The tax increases your about to see on corporations in the US over the next 4-8 years will be staggering.

Canada is a much superior place to do business TODAY. It wasn't a few years ago. There's a combination of Repulican and Democrat issues there, but the reality is, the US needs to raise taxes substantially in the near term just to fund their debt and other unfunded state liabilities (medicare, etc.).

The temporality aspect of your argument doesn't make sense: If Tim Horton is moving away from the US because of what it expects to happen there in the next 4-8 years, it is certainly not because Canada is a much superior place to do business TODAY but most certainly because of what it expects to happen here in Canada in the next same 4-8 year period.

Edited July 3, 2009 by benny

[geoffrey]

Oh my....the US is surely doomed because Timmy's is scurrying back to Canada. LOL!

Your absolutely right.

But considering that the US isn't really on level terms tax wise with many of it's competitors is a problem. Obama's desire to shut off offshore entities will further push money outside of the country. Things don't look great in the US right now for business. And taxes are only going up, way up, in the US in the short, medium and long-terms.

[benny]

Obama's desire to shut off offshore entities will further push money outside of the country.

It will not push money outside the US because, by shutting off tax heavens, Obama is only participating to a G8 common effort to shut off all such entities worldwide.

[geoffrey]

It will not push money outside the US because, by shutting off tax heavens, Obama is only participating to a G8 common effort to shut off all such entities worldwide.

Just like how Obama thinks he's going to reduce nukes, solve world hunger and somehow provide health care to everyone without raising taxes?

Ya good luck. Tax havens have existed since taxes did, and will continue to do so.

Obama is a naive, foolish, academic. He knows nothing about the real world. He's a political puppet, a hack, a tool. He's done in 3.5 years. Thank goodness. The markets aren't pricing that in though, they figure he'll stick around and drag the US lower and lower. Now that people have a perspective about how Obama can never pay back the debt he's accumulated in the first few months of office, the markets are reacting quite negatively. This will continue.

[benny]

Just like how Obama thinks he's going to reduce nukes, solve world hunger and somehow provide health care to everyone without raising taxes?

Ya good luck. Tax havens have existed since taxes did, and will continue to do so.

Obama is a naive, foolish, academic. He knows nothing about the real world. He's a political puppet, a hack, a tool. He's done in 3.5 years. Thank goodness. The markets aren't pricing that in though, they figure he'll stick around and drag the US lower and lower. Now that people have a perspective about how Obama can never pay back the debt he's accumulated in the first few months of office, the markets are reacting quite negatively. This will continue.

Cooperation is stronger than competition. In fact, competition depends on cooperation.

[msj]

Obama is a naive, foolish, academic. He knows nothing about the real world. He's a political puppet, a hack, a tool. He's done in 3.5 years. Thank goodness. The markets aren't pricing that in though, they figure he'll stick around and drag the US lower and lower. Now that people have a perspective about how Obama can never pay back the debt he's accumulated in the first few months of office, the markets are reacting quite negatively. This will continue.

So, the markets really are stoopid then?

I mean, for the market to have gone up for the past few months and "pricing in" all those "green shoots" that any person with a couple of brain cells and a blog could see through, to only turn around suddenly because the market now is "pricing in" Obama's debt from the first few months ....

Well, I know the markets are stoopid, but that stoopid?

No, this little pet theory is rooted in political ideology rather than any understanding of how markets really work.

[benny]

So, the markets really are stoopid then?

I mean, for the market to have gone up for the past few months and "pricing in" all those "green shoots" that any person with a couple of brain cells and a blog could see through, to only turn around suddenly because the market now is "pricing in" Obama's debt from the first few months ....

Well, I know the markets are stoopid, but that stoopid?

No, this little pet theory is rooted in political ideology rather than any understanding of how markets really work.

What is a market anyway when mark-to-market accounting can cause a worldwide recession?