Grits, Tories battle for Jewish support in next election

jbg · August 1, 2009

Revolutionaries have a different conception of (historical) time than conservatives.

I am not a conservative. Perhaps you should learn to use a calendar.

benny · August 1, 2009

I am not a conservative. Perhaps you should learn to use a calendar.

Use calendar forward and backward:

http://vanishingmediator.blogspot.com/2009...posits-its.html

Edited August 1, 2009 by benny

myata · August 1, 2009

Perhaps if you looked at the original posts like I said:
I think you should apologize for bloviating again.

What of the above mentions anything about "schedule"? Your reference has said (as cited in the previous post) something directly opposite from what you claimed it to. That is a deliberate and conscious fraud on you part Dobbin, now there can't be any doubts about that.

Perhaps only in that way can you reconcile the two logically and rationally irreconcilable things, your talking of peace and your acting like an intimate associate of one of the sides in the conflict. Drop the pretense and call things their own names, state that you'll support, excuse and apologise Israel in whatever they do, peace or no peace having nothing to do with it. It won't even require any change in your position, you're already doing as much, just a little honesty and courage that's all.

Of course you can always stick with you ridiculous "can't see the obvious" approach and try to hide with your now famous confustions, gimmycks and ploys very obvious fact that your completely out of anything with a grain of factuality or rationality to supprt your bankrupt position.

You sound like an angry person.

And you are proven to have used fradulent means to substantiate your ungrounded statements, so that's a fraud as clear as one goes, no fingerpointing could hide that. And you're reduced to using obvious fraud you know why Dobbin, because your position is undefendable by any factual and rational means, because your peaceful statements have no ground in reality. Find some honesty and courage and admit the obviuos, that your position is to support one side in the conflict, fully and unconditionally, and has nothing to do with peace. Your polemics is proving useless, it can't hold any more holes and there isn't a grain of fact or logic that could still support it.

Once again sorry if you don't think Gaza is a fact.
Verifiable: Gaza.

My, looks like you've managed to find a good peanut in a pile of steaming and stinking dung, great "success", Dobbin!

You see, you sound hysterical now.

What power of logic Dobbin, you're really exceeding yourself and breaking out of all bounds! What heights of polemics will you reach what you discover your full potential?! (on the other thought though, you've already hit the absolute "success" a few pages back, so I'm afraid this is the end of the road as far as any meaningful discussion on your side could go).

Canada seems to be doing just fine, thank you.

Comparing with the role we played internationally decades back, the downward trend is obvous. Canada is losing its independent voice, its position is quickly becoming that of alignment and following, and it's very obvious that with this policy the Liberals will take it further in the downward direction.

I think it means that Israel has signed peace agreements and evacuated land. Hamas has only committed itself to a fight.

It may have signed papers and it continued its agression in the form of annexation of occupied lands unabated and your peace process barely noticed and certainly did nothing about it, and it means that in reality it has very little to do with genuine peace agenda. Just as the factual results (the worth of your talk being clear by now) are showing. Two decades, massive deterioration on settlements, several large military and militant escalation, what do you want from a "peace" process that has very little to do with real peace?

And now we see the focus on the West Bank.

And now you can look in your rosy mental mirror that reflects only your dreams or little pieces of reality that you want to see and sing and dance about great progresses you observe there.

jdobbin · August 1, 2009

What of the above mentions anything about "schedule"? Your reference has said (as cited in the previous post) something directly opposite from what you claimed it to. That is a deliberate and conscious fraud on you part Dobbin, now there can't be any doubts about that.

Think I already covered that when I said "in the weeks ahead."

Perhaps only in that way can you reconcile the two logically and rationally irreconcilable things, your talking of peace and your acting like an intimate associate of one of the sides in the conflict. Drop the pretense and call things their own names, state that you'll support, excuse and apologise Israel in whatever they do, peace or no peace having nothing to do with it. It won't even require any change in your position, you're already doing as much, just a little honesty and courage that's all.

Think we already covered this as well.

Of course you can always stick with you ridiculous "can't see the obvious" approach and try to hide with your now famous confustions, gimmycks and ploys very obvious fact that your completely out of anything with a grain of factuality or rationality to supprt your bankrupt position.

Mow, there is you going hysterical again.

And you are proven to have used fradulent means to substantiate your ungrounded statements, so that's a fraud as clear as one goes, no fingerpointing could hide that. And you're reduced to using obvious fraud you know why Dobbin, because your position is undefendable by any factual and rational means, because your peaceful statements have no ground in reality. Find some honesty and courage and admit the obviuos, that your position is to support one side in the conflict, fully and unconditionally, and has nothing to do with peace. Your polemics is proving useless, it can't hold any more holes and there isn't a grain of fact or logic that could still support it.

Not to mention angry that people can't see your side of things.

My, looks like you've managed to find a good peanut in a pile of steaming and stinking dung, great "success", Dobbin!

And this is very angry.

What power of logic Dobbin, you're really exceeding yourself and breaking out of all bounds! What heights of polemics will you reach what you discover your full potential?! (on the other thought though, you've already hit the absolute "success" a few pages back, so I'm afraid this is the end of the road as far as any meaningful discussion on your side could go).

This is full froth.

Comparing with the role we played internationally decades back, the downward trend is obvous. Canada is losing its independent voice, its position is quickly becoming that of alignment and following, and it's very obvious that with this policy the Liberals will take it further in the downward direction.

I guess try and sell your view to another party. I don't see any of them buying what you are selling.

It may have signed papers and it continued its agression in the form of annexation of occupied lands unabated and your peace process barely noticed and certainly did nothing about it, and it means that in reality it has very little to do with genuine peace agenda. Just as the factual results (the worth of your talk being clear by now) are showing. Two decades, massive deterioration on settlements, several large military and militant escalation, what do you want from a "peace" process that has very little to do with real peace?

There's that the focus of yours strictly on settlements again. The big gaping hole in your criticism as always is Hamas.

And now you can look in your rosy mental mirror that reflects only your dreams or little pieces of reality that you want to see and sing and dance about great progresses you observe there.

And you can continue to rail against Israel as always.

benny · August 1, 2009

I guess try and sell your view to another party. I don't see any of them buying what you are selling.

What is a political party for you anyway, you seem to reduce it to the latest apology of its brand new leader?

Edited August 1, 2009 by benny

jdobbin · August 1, 2009

What is a political party for you anyway, you seem to reduce it to the latest apology of its brand new leader?

Your political party has no leader.

benny · August 1, 2009

Your political party has no leader.

Followers need a leader.

jdobbin · August 1, 2009

Followers need a leader.

So everyone in your party is a leader? Doesn't sounds like a political party.

benny · August 1, 2009

So everyone in your party is a leader? Doesn't sounds like a political party.

Still hoping political parties to behave like bee hives!?

jdobbin · August 1, 2009

Still hoping political parties to behave like bee hives!?

I think you sound like you want independent MPs. If that is the case, you don't need a political party at all.

benny · August 1, 2009

I think you sound like you want independent MPs. If that is the case, you don't need a political party at all.

Canadian politics is all about beating a bloc (i.e. the Bloc Québécois).

jbg · August 2, 2009

I think you sound like you want independent MPs. If that is the case, you don't need a political party at all.

You're giving his "fortune cookie writing" far more credit than it warrants.

myata · August 2, 2009

Think I already covered that when I said "in the weeks ahead."

Dobbin, this report, referenced by you: Washington Post July 21st

contains no reference to "weeks ahead" in the context of schedule for the alleged removal of outposts. Are you trying to hide one obvious fraud (referencing material in support of you statement that schedule has been defined, while it said directly opposite) with yet another one?

That would be a sad, but very predictable progression for you, because your position simply cannot be supported by any factual, credible evidence.

And so, rounding it all up:

1) Obviously fradulent arguments

Mow, there is you going hysterical again.
Not to mention angry that people can't see your side of things.

And this is very angry.

This is full froth.

2) Personal attacks

There's that the focus of yours strictly on settlements again. The big gaping hole in your criticism as always is Hamas.
And you can continue to rail against Israel as always.

3) Obvious falsifications of opponents position.

is all that you're left with. This is no surprise because when your talk is hugely, directly opposite to your act, you always run the risk of being called on it, and lacking the courage to admit your actual, true position clearly and openly, you're necessarily reduced to employing deceipt, confusions, gimmycks and ploys in an attempt to hide the truth. That should by now become glaring and obvious: your position is that of an intimate association with one side in the conflict, it has nothing to do with genuine mediation for peace, and everything - with ideologically driven support of your friendly party in whatever they do, i.e., a gang.

benny · August 2, 2009

You're giving his "fortune cookie writing" far more credit than it warrants.

mush talk

jdobbin · August 2, 2009

Dobbin, this report, referenced by you: Washington Post July 21st
contains no reference to "weeks ahead" in the context of schedule for the alleged removal of outposts. Are you trying to hide one obvious fraud (referencing material in support of you statement that schedule has been defined, while it said directly opposite) with yet another one?

It wasn't the only article I cited which we have already covered.

That would be a sad, but very predictable progression for you, because your position simply cannot be supported by any factual, credible evidence.
And so, rounding it all up:

1) Obviously fradulent arguments

What is predictable is you missing once again the material I posted originally.

2) Personal attacks

Just describing the behaviour I am seeing with your posts. They all seem very angry. That isn't an insult. It is an observation.

3) Obvious falsifications of opponents position.

Obvious problems of overlooking what I wrote.

is all that you're left with. This is no surprise because when your talk is hugely, directly opposite to your act, you always run the risk of being called on it, and lacking the courage to admit your actual, true position clearly and openly, you're necessarily reduced to employing deceipt, confusions, gimmycks and ploys in an attempt to hide the truth. That should by now become glaring and obvious: your position is that of an intimate association with one side in the conflict, it has nothing to do with genuine mediation for peace, and everything - with ideologically driven support of your friendly party in whatever they do, i.e., a gang.

Good luck with your mission to have Canadian political parties come on board with your views. Let me know how that goes.

benny · August 2, 2009

If Canadian Jews think they can settle the dispute between Canada and Quebec then only, Canadian politicians should really care a lot about getting their support.

myata · August 3, 2009

It wasn't the only article I cited which we have already covered.
What is predictable is you missing once again the material I posted originally.

No talking could hide the fact that you stated something directly opposite to the reference you provided and that's a fraud, as obvious as one can be. You can't hide it now or pretend that it did not happen, or meant something else, but you can own it up and apologise to the board for wasting readers time on your groundless fantasies.

Just describing the behaviour I am seeing with your posts. They all seem very angry. That isn't an insult. It is an observation.

And it's anyhow related to the topic being discussed? Maybe taking the place of the other, relevant and rational arguments on your part, that still could not be found at this time?

Obvious problems of overlooking what I wrote.

Not overlooking but pointing out the exact nature of your style of discussing, for whatever it's worth.

Good luck with your mission to have Canadian political parties come on board with your views. Let me know how that goes.

Oh don't worry, eventually the truth will dawn on everybody, even on Conservatives and Liberals (like with apartheid; global warming; Iraq; and so on). It may take time of course, but that's the advantage of a principled position that it doesn't depend that much on the wind of the day, and doesn't need confusions, deceptions, selective visions and such to maintain its course or claim to life.

Edited August 3, 2009 by myata

jdobbin · August 3, 2009

No talking could hide the fact that you stated something directly opposite to the reference you provided and that's a fraud, as obvious as one can be. You can't hide it now or pretend that it did not happen, or meant something else, but you can own it up and apologise to the board for wasting readers time on your groundless fantasies.

We have gone over this before. It is you wasting time.

And it's anyhow related to the topic being discussed? Maybe taking the place of the other, relevant and rational arguments on your part, that still could not be found at this time?

Your fury over things seems fairly pertinent since you seem to rage in an over the top manner in every reply. It does seem rather unhinged.

Not overlooking but pointing out the exact nature of your style of discussing, for whatever it's worth.

We have gone over this before as well.

Oh don't worry, eventually the truth will dawn on everybody, even on Conservatives and Liberals (like with apartheid; global warming; Iraq; and so on). It may take time of course, but that's the advantage of a principled position that it doesn't depend that much on the wind of the day, and doesn't need confusions, deceptions, selective visions and such to maintain its course or claim to life.

Yes, good luck on bringing this to the attention of another political party.

Edited August 3, 2009 by jdobbin

benny · August 3, 2009

About proposing now a solution to Basque terrorism to attrack the votes of Canadians with Spanish ancestors!?

myata · August 3, 2009

We have gone over this before. It is you wasting time.

Unless you own it up and apologise, no further reference from you can be trusted by anybody on this board.

Your fury over things seems fairly pertinent since you seem to rage in an over the top manner in every reply. It does seem rather unhinged.

OK, it isn't related to the topic, and you simply have nothing else of substance to say here.

Yes, good luck on bringing this to the attention of another political party.

World isn't made of political parties only, but some of them are apt to jump on bandwagon to catch up with the established opinion. You're clearly showing that that's exactly that your party would do, and that's why it has nothing to contribute to establishment of Canada's independent and strong standing for principles and peace on the international stage.

Jerry J. Fortin · August 3, 2009

Unless you own it up and apologise, no further reference from you can be trusted by anybody on this board.
OK, it isn't related to the topic, and you simply have nothing else of substance to say here.

World isn't made of political parties only, but some of them are apt to jump on bandwagon to catch up with the established opinion. You're clearly showing that that's exactly that your party would do, and that's why it has nothing to contribute to establishment of Canada's independent and strong standing for principles and peace on the international stage.

I wonder how many folks realize that between the banks and the military industrial complex we will never realize the peace and prosperity we desire.

myata · August 3, 2009

I'm of a more optimistic view, but it could take time and in all likelihood, a lot of it too. Straightening things out may shorten it even if one little bit at a time.

Jerry J. Fortin · August 3, 2009

I'm of a more optimistic view, but it could take time and in all likelihood, a lot of it too. Straightening things out may shorten it even if one little bit at a time.

What do you see as the first step?

benny · August 3, 2009

I'm of a more optimistic view, but it could take time and in all likelihood, a lot of it too. Straightening things out may shorten it even if one little bit at a time.

One has to be very pessimistic to think he has to solve Palestine problems to get Canadian Jews votes in the next Canadian elections.

jdobbin · August 3, 2009

Unless you own it up and apologise, no further reference from you can be trusted by anybody on this board.

No need to aplogize for your inability to actually read what I posted.

OK, it isn't related to the topic, and you simply have nothing else of substance to say here.

It is related to the topic since how you reply is full over the top ferocity and anger.

World isn't made of political parties only, but some of them are apt to jump on bandwagon to catch up with the established opinion. You're clearly showing that that's exactly that your party would do, and that's why it has nothing to contribute to establishment of Canada's independent and strong standing for principles and peace on the international stage.

And you're clearly showing that there isn't anyone who could work within your narrow focus.