Is Sarah Palin Getting Better At What She Does?

[bush_cheney2004]

We'll see what happens! Ross Perot almost pulled it off back in 92, at a time when there was also great dissatisfaction with the two part duopoly, and if a sane billionaire with deep pockets comes along this time with a sincere desire to create a legitimate third party, it could bring back real democracy to American politics.

Wonderful logic....rich fat cat is needed for real democracy. I pitched Perot's efforts many posts, and many said it was meaningless. Make up your mind.

[Oleg Bach]

Wonderful logic....rich fat cat is needed for real democracy. I pitched Perot's efforts many posts, and many said it was meaningless. Make up your mind.

Ross would always mention "that sucking sound" as he described wealth disappearing up into the ether....funny - it was him sucking...the little weasil.

[KrustyKidd]

We'll see what happens! Ross Perot almost pulled it off back in 92, at a time when there was also great dissatisfaction with the two part duopoly, and if a sane billionaire with deep pockets comes along this time with a sincere desire to create a legitimate third party, it could bring back real democracy to American politics.

George Soros.

Hang on a minute. You said 'create a legitimate third party.' Soros wanted to buy one already in play.

Sorry.

Edited to add;

Soros funded half of the $100,000 for the bogus Lancelet Study.

Edited June 20, 2009 by KrustyKidd

[WIP]

The thing is, for republicans, the issues are never really that complicated.

Get the government out of the way.

Have a strong and effective military for protection of American soil, American interests and those of other peaceful democracies.

On the subject of that "strong, effective military," it is one of the reasons why Republicans are more dependent on big government than the Democrats are. The warhawks have created the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower feared would dominate under a permanent Cold War. How does the right wing square its claims to defend free markets with Iraq War policies of granting generous no-bid contracts to friendly corporations like Haliburton and Blackwater....not to mention all of the business awarded to defense contractors for the latest gadgets of war?

Protect people's basic right to life & liberty without direct harm from others.

And what guaranteed rights do Americans have left, after the creation of the Patriot Act, illegal wiretapping, secret prisons, indefinite detention without charges, the use of torture etc.?

[WIP]

Wonderful logic....rich fat cat is needed for real democracy. I pitched Perot's efforts many posts, and many said it was meaningless. Make up your mind.

As long as your courts make assinine decisions like this one - First National Bank of Boston vs. Belotti - which effectively created a corporate right of free speech (through money), there is no legal means to enforce campaign finance regulations. With all of the money it takes to finance campaigns, a third party that is not beholden to the same old corporate interests will need a benefactor with deep pockets. And it would have to be someone working for the common good, and not motivated by personal ambitions like Perot or George Soros, who has turned his supposedly grassroots movement -- moveon.org -- into a Democratic Party organizing tool http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_..._v_bellotti.php

[bush_cheney2004]

As long as your courts make assinine decisions like this one - First National Bank of Boston vs. Belotti - which effectively created a corporate right of free speech (through money), there is no legal means to enforce campaign finance regulations.

I don't give a damn about campaign finance regulations.....money and the ability to raise it is the best public barometer. Public campaign finance laws are a joke, and one reason Obama rejected same. We take free speech a lot more seriously down here.

With all of the money it takes to finance campaigns, a third party that is not beholden to the same old corporate interests will need a benefactor with deep pockets. And it would have to be someone working for the common good, and not motivated by personal ambitions like Perot or George Soros,

The first test for such pretenders is their inability to raise money. Buying campaigns with a personal fortune doesn't work either.

[Oleg Bach]

I don't give a damn about campaign finance regulations.....money and the ability to raise it is the best public barometer. Public campaign finance laws are a joke, and one reason Obama rejected same. We take free speech a lot more seriously down here.

The first test for such pretenders is their inability to raise money. Buying campaigns with a personal fortune doesn't work either.

Vanity Press

[Machjo]

Personally, as a conservative I am excited and energized by her as a politician. If she continues this trajectory of improvement, she is a serious contender for taking over in 3.5 years and cleaning up this mess Obama is creating.

At the end of the interview, she makes a decent comment about what many republicans are really all about: keeping government out of the economy. If she can continue to refine and improve on this message, she could be the next Reagan: ie. the likeable, charismatic, folksy leader with a big heart and a laser-like focus on what she believes.

By any reasonable account, I don't see how we can consider either Democrats or Republicans in the US to be 'conservative'. Yes they are 'conservative' in certain respects, with regards to the military, the war on drugs, abortion, etc. But as for being fiscal conservatives, that's a whole other ball game. All they do is cut taxes and increase military sepnding. their economy is drowning in debt, their government continues to spend like drunken sailors, the American people for the most part see nothing wrong with that, and then we have the audacity to call them 'conservative'! They're among the most liberal spenders on the planet. All they know how to do is cut taxes more than spending. Overall, the US government is among the most fiscally liberal in the world.

It'll bite the US in the butt eventually. In fact, it's already started.

Edited June 21, 2009 by Machjo

[WIP]

I don't give a damn about campaign finance regulations.....money and the ability to raise it is the best public barometer. Public campaign finance laws are a joke, and one reason Obama rejected same. We take free speech a lot more seriously down here.

Do corporate citizens have free speech rights also? Well, apparently they do, according to your leading jurists, like Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts -- but why are the rights of corporate citizens being expanded at a time when real flesh and blood citizens are having their right infringed on and denied in the War On Terror and the War on Drugs?

Why should corporations be allowed to use freedom of speech as expressed through money in the buying of political influence with both major parties? This isn't a matter of rich people being allowed to support their candidates -- it's about whether the principle of free speech extends to artificial entities.

The first test for such pretenders is their inability to raise money. Buying campaigns with a personal fortune doesn't work either.

The only realistic avenue for a third party or independent presidential candidate is if they have the money to match the fundraising resources of the two parties.

[bush_cheney2004]

Do corporate citizens have free speech rights also? Well, apparently they do, according to your leading jurists, like Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts -- but why are the rights of corporate citizens being expanded at a time when real flesh and blood citizens are having their right infringed on and denied in the War On Terror and the War on Drugs?

Because terrorism and drug trafficking are illegal.

Why should corporations be allowed to use freedom of speech as expressed through money in the buying of political influence with both major parties? This isn't a matter of rich people being allowed to support their candidates -- it's about whether the principle of free speech extends to artificial entities.

Commercial speech is well developed in case law, regardless of financial status.

The only realistic avenue for a third party or independent presidential candidate is if they have the money to match the fundraising resources of the two parties.

Anbody who meets the constitutional requirements may run for the office.....however, their chance of winning are enhanced by fundraising ability.

[GostHacked]

Because terrorism and drug trafficking are illegal.

You missed his point...

But not everyone swept up is a criminal. Not all the people are terrorists. It always takes a couple assholes to ruin it for the rest of us. Many innocents are dragged in bcause of these 'war on *.*' What a waste of time, money and resources to persue and persecute these people, for even after the fact when some of these dolts are charged, they are let go because the jury finds them innocent, or there was not enough evidence to convict. Big waste of everything.

Commercial speech is well developed in case law, regardless of financial status.

Anbody who meets the constitutional requirements may run for the office.....however, their chance of winning are enhanced by fundraising ability.

I guess you need to raise enough money from your friends to pay off your opponents. Win Win?

[bush_cheney2004]

....But not everyone swept up is a criminal. Not all the people are terrorists. It always takes a couple assholes to ruin it for the rest of us. Many innocents are dragged in bcause of these 'war on *.*' What a waste of time, money and resources to persue and persecute these people, for even after the fact when some of these dolts are charged, they are let go because the jury finds them innocent, or there was not enough evidence to convict. Big waste of everything.

Brilliant reasoning (or should I say - doper logic) ...then why prosecute for assault and homicide? "These people" conspire to buy and sell contraband. They are all assholes...just like the drunks. If the "point" is that you want to be left alone to buy, sell, and use drugs, I think we get that.

I guess you need to raise enough money from your friends to pay off your opponents. Win Win?

Not friends...interests. That's how the grown up world works, even for dopers.

[GostHacked]

Brilliant reasoning (or should I say - doper logic) ...then why prosecute for assault and homicide? "These people" conspire to buy and sell contraband. They are all assholes...just like the drunks. If the "point" is that you want to be left alone to buy, sell, and use drugs, I think we get that.

You are still missing the point. Which I expected from you.

I am not saying that we should not prosecute people for their illegal actions (something you think I am saying). However, you will do more catching and releasing under these new laws (Patriot act, illegal wiretapping, rendition) than under the old laws. You might get lucky now and then, but overall you are nabbing and detaining more innocents than ever before. This is the real problem. Criminals never abided by the rules, so why punish the rest of the population with measures that simply do not garner results of nabbing the bad guys? Throwing up more rules and regulations that simply will waste more time, money, manpower and resources and piss of a lot of people and not result in actually making any headway in preventing crime/terrorism.

Methinks if you are to detain someone, you should have at least some evidence to support detaining the person. Many cases get thrown out because the evidence is so weak, hence the wasted effort.

Not friends...interests. That's how the grown up world works, even for dopers.

Opponents , interests, whatever you want to call them. We at least agree on this part.

[Oleg Bach]

Brilliant reasoning (or should I say - doper logic) ...then why prosecute for assault and homicide? "These people" conspire to buy and sell contraband. They are all assholes...just like the drunks. If the "point" is that you want to be left alone to buy, sell, and use drugs, I think we get that.

Not friends...interests. That's how the grown up world works, even for dopers.

Dopers are very very dependent on their friend - small problem - take away the dope and there are no friends - much like those who socialize around alcohol. Remove the alcohol from the equation and no friends. My wife said years ago - no one likes you you don't have any friends - I said - "what am I, in highschool where I sit around with a room full of friends around a box of beer?" I live in the world of grown ups now and don't need alliances based on dope or booze.....any social group dependent on substance lacks spiritual substance and has no faith - faith and hope are the power - time and a place for everything - but those who are clustered in misery together need to know -

In conclution --- doper decisions are as bad as poitical ones done with a belly full of booze or tanks.

[WIP]

Because terrorism and drug trafficking are illegal.

And why is it necessary to infringe on personal rights to combat the drug trade and the threat of terrorism? It makes a convenient excuse for those who have little respect for civil rights in the first place. Apparently these "wars" do not seem to curtail corporate personal rights though......like they say, money talks!

Commercial speech is well developed in case law, regardless of financial status.

Only in the last 100 years apparently! http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_acco...rations_us.html

Before the turn of the last century, it seems that corporations were severely restricted by state governments before then, and their rights have continued to expand ever since...at the expense of the rights of flesh & blood citizens.

[bush_cheney2004]

And why is it necessary to infringe on personal rights to combat the drug trade and the threat of terrorism? It makes a convenient excuse for those who have little respect for civil rights in the first place. Apparently these "wars" do not seem to curtail corporate personal rights though......like they say, money talks!

Sure does.....see "War on Poverty"

Civil liberties do not include the right to consume or traffic in contraband. Where do these dopers think the illegal drugs come from.....the Drug Fairy?

Only in the last 100 years apparently!

Living in that past presents many more problems for civil liberties.....no thanks.

[GostHacked]

Civil liberties do not include the right to consume or traffic in contraband. Where do these dopers think the illegal drugs come from.....the Drug Fairy?

A 3rd (or 4th who knows) time you missed the point. It is not the criminals that are getting caught in a sweep with the new rules. There are too many innocents getting caught up in this process. Of course civil liberties does not give the right of consuming or trafficing in contraband, again that is not the point here. However most of the people that are swept up are released because, there either is no evidence, wrong person, ect ect.

Even high profile trials with suspected terrorists end up getting let go because of the lack of evidence or how the government obtained the evidence. Does this help the process at all? No.

You always tell us 'how it is', but never tell us, 'how it should be'.

[bush_cheney2004]

A 3rd (or 4th who knows) time you missed the point. It is not the criminals that are getting caught in a sweep with the new rules. There are too many innocents getting caught up in this process. Of course civil liberties does not give the right of consuming or trafficing in contraband, again that is not the point here. However most of the people that are swept up are released because, there either is no evidence, wrong person, ect ect.

Well gee, if they are released, then the "system" has decided to let 'em go. Why in my long life have I never been "caught up in the process". Why are these "innocents" in such a position? There's a reason why we call it dope.

Even high profile trials with suspected terrorists end up getting let go because of the lack of evidence or how the government obtained the evidence. Does this help the process at all? No.

Don't be naive...the government includes law enforcement and the judiciary, with often competing interests. That doesn't mean government just gives up.

You always tell us 'how it is', but never tell us, 'how it should be'.

For dopers, it should be just as it is...the biggest pain in the ass possible.

[GostHacked]

Well gee, if they are released, then the "system" has decided to let 'em go. Why in my long life have I never been "caught up in the process". Why are these "innocents" in such a position? There's a reason why we call it dope.

You are still missing the point, and that is completely expected of you.

You are simply not catching any more real hard core criminals than before. You are now putting restrictions to those who are NOT involved in any criminal activity. Because of these new measures, (ever go to an airport as of late??) you have a tighter border, more regulations more check points, more control. more more more, which results in less and less civil liberties. Next thing you know, something that you used to do and was legal is now considered illegal. So you are nabbing a whole slew of people for really dumb petty stuff. So maybe you are catching more criminals, but not the ones you really want to go after.

Waste of time, effort, money, manpower, resources.

Don't be naive...the government includes law enforcement and the judiciary, with often competing interests. That doesn't mean government just gives up.

For dopers, it should be just as it is...the biggest pain in the ass possible.

Ahh because I smoke the pot, this is the stance you take. I would not classify myself as an innocent. Dope was illegal before these new measures, and they are still illegal, which makes your point useless.

[bush_cheney2004]

You are still missing the point, and that is completely expected of you.

Then why do you keep repeating the same inane thing?

You are simply not catching any more real hard core criminals than before. You are now putting restrictions to those who are NOT involved in any criminal activity. Because of these new measures, (ever go to an airport as of late??) you have a tighter border, more regulations more check points, more control. more more more, which results in less and less civil liberties.

Right, now we are catching the "real" soft core criminals....all the same to me. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Next thing you know, something that you used to do and was legal is now considered illegal. So you are nabbing a whole slew of people for really dumb petty stuff. So maybe you are catching more criminals, but not the ones you really want to go after.

See above....I don't care how much you whine or parse criminal behaviour into neat buckets to justify your own actions. My son thinks "Cops" is a comedy....starring dopers.

Waste of time, effort, money, manpower, resources.

Can be said about a lot of government programs....and you would scream loud if your pet programs were cut or eliminated. One vote to a customer....

Ahh because I smoke the pot, this is the stance you take. I would not classify myself as an innocent. Dope was illegal before these new measures, and they are still illegal, which makes your point useless.

If you violate the law and are tagged or arrested, take it like a man/woman. Don't tell me the system is bad because you are not a "hard core" criminal. Sheesh......

[Oleg Bach]

Then why do you keep repeating the same inane thing?

Right, now we are catching the "real" soft core criminals....all the same to me. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

See above....I don't care how much you whine or parse criminal behaviour into neat buckets to justify your own actions. My son thinks "Cops" is a comedy....starring dopers.

Can be said about a lot of government programs....and you would scream loud if your pet programs were cut or eliminated. One vote to a customer....

If you violate the law and are tagged or arrested, take it like a man/woman. Don't tell me the system is bad because you are not a "hard core" criminal. Sheesh......

Avoid arrest at all cost - whether the system is right or wrong..you must be wise and preserve yourself. L

[GostHacked]

Then why do you keep repeating the same inane thing?

Because you missed the point several times? That is not my problem, that is yours. Something you really need to work on.

Right, now we are catching the "real" soft core criminals....all the same to me. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Catching the soft criminals will not cure soft crime. But you already know that. Catch the real criminals and then you have progress. Putting thousands of people in jail for posession of drugs has not worked in the past, why the hell would it work in the future? Insanity is trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results. Cut off the seller, not the buyer. Any idiot knows that. If you don't have anything to sell, there will be nothing to buy. Or is all this needed to employ and justify hiring more police officers/security guards ect ect ect.

When people cannot find a seller, then you can bet that there will be a great reduction in people getting arrested/jailed for posession of drugs. Simple no? Or is that too complicated for you?

To quote the late great George Carlin

War on drugs just got us ... more drugs.

War on terror just brought us .. more terror.

War on homelessness brought us ... more homeless.

War on poverty brought us .. more poverty.

Fail, fail, fail, fail.

One cure would be to legalize all drugs and let the chips fall where they may. If you are in control, then you won't have an issue.

Can be said about a lot of government programs....and you would scream loud if your pet programs were cut or eliminated. One vote to a customer....

Government is a huge waste. That is evident. If I had any pet programs. I can't name one off the top of my head. But I am sure you are gonna get back at me about that one.

If you violate the law and are tagged or arrested, take it like a man/woman. Don't tell me the system is bad because you are not a "hard core" criminal. Sheesh......

Hey you don't even need to do a crime and can be arrested. But that does not seem to be a problem in your eyes.

Again, not the issue at hand here. Criminals who are caught deserve the time. I am not dissagreeing with you here. However the process of how many of them caught can be brought into question. And even more and more people not involved in any crime are being dragnet'd in. Catch and release. Hell this might as well be a damn fishing show.

One benefit of living in Canada is that cops don't really care about busting people for personal pot possesion. Trust me on this one I have several friends who are cops and they all tell me the same thing. It is a waste of time to go after the average person on the street for drug posession. Go after the ones who are selling and that problem is quickly cured.

But my logic is flawed ... right?

[bush_cheney2004]

Because you missed the point several times? That is not my problem, that is yours. Something you really need to work on.

I have...and you keep taking the bait.

Catching the soft criminals will not cure soft crime. But you already know that. Catch the real criminals and then you have progress.

Who says we want to "cure" anything. Christ....it's not breast cancer, but using your logic, we should give up on that too. Carlin was actually wrong on a few of those...but it makes for great stand-up.

Or is all this needed to employ and justify hiring more police officers/security guards ect ect ect.

Of course...it's all a grand scheme to ramp up the security and law enforcement industry.

When people cannot find a seller, then you can bet that there will be a great reduction in people getting arrested/jailed for posession of drugs. Simple no? Or is that too complicated for you?

That's pretty stupid.....people who are looking to buy dope (like you)...can always find a seller...even in prison.

To quote the late great George Carlin

War on drugs just got us ... more drugs.

War on terror just brought us .. more terror.

War on homelessness brought us ... more homeless.

War on poverty brought us .. more poverty.

Fail, fail, fail, fail.

See Walk for the Cure...more breast cancer....fail...fail....fail.

One cure would be to legalize all drugs and let the chips fall where they may. If you are in control, then you won't have an issue.

More curing eh? Maybe you should have been a doctor....you could also prescribe drugs while curing everything with simpleminded ideas.

Government is a huge waste. That is evident. If I had any pet programs. I can't name one off the top of my head. But I am sure you are gonna get back at me about that one.

Frankly, I don't care what you think about government...it is here to stay.

Hey you don't even need to do a crime and can be arrested. But that does not seem to be a problem in your eyes.

Never been arrested...do tell.

Again, not the issue at hand here. Criminals who are caught deserve the time. I am not dissagreeing with you here. However the process of how many of them caught can be brought into question. And even more and more people not involved in any crime are being dragnet'd in. Catch and release. Hell this might as well be a damn fishing show.

Sure....everybody in the pen is "innocent" too. Don't you think if the cops could magically parse the real crooks from the idiots that they might have a different job?

One benefit of living in Canada is that cops don't really care about busting people for personal pot possesion. Trust me on this one I have several friends who are cops and they all tell me the same thing. It is a waste of time to go after the average person on the street for drug posession. Go after the ones who are selling and that problem is quickly cured.

Then why are you and your fellow potheads always whining?

But my logic is flawed ... right?

What logic? I have never understood doper logic....risking arrest, fine, and incarceration for a cheap thrill doesn't seem logical at all.

Let me guess...I need to smoke dope or freebase some crack to understand...right?

[WIP]

Sure does.....see "War on Poverty"

Civil liberties do not include the right to consume or traffic in contraband. Where do these dopers think the illegal drugs come from.....the Drug Fairy?

And who makes it contraband? Authoritarian laws that have little concern with the personal habits of a large portion of the population! And once again, you haven't dealt with my objection to these laws -- they are eroding the civil rights of everyone, including those of us who don't use illegal drugs in the first place!

But that's all right by conservatives, because conservatives don't trust the majority of people having too much personal freedoms.

Living in that past presents many more problems for civil liberties.....no thanks.

And you conservatives are the very ones who dig up the Founding Fathers whenever it is convenient as a rhetorical device. But, in this case, the American Revolutionaries were not only revolting against the King of England, they were also rebelling against the trade corporations established by the Crown, and that's why it took over a hundred years before corporate rights were firmly established.

[GostHacked]

I have...and you keep taking the bait.

Ah, so you are trollin.

Who says we want to "cure" anything. Christ....it's not breast cancer, but using your logic, we should give up on that too. Carlin was actually wrong on a few of those...but it makes for great stand-up.

Treating crime and treating desieses are two completly different things. And for whatever reason my doper logic can distinguish the difference between the two.

Of course...it's all a grand scheme to ramp up the security and law enforcement industry.

One can make that extrapolation. Oh wait. It's the drugs. I hear pot can give you extreme paranoia. Well, that is what I am told. Or is it the voices in my head.

That's pretty stupid.....people who are looking to buy dope (like you)...can always find a seller...even in prison.

It would make it a lot harder to obtain. And many would give up after some time. Of course you can find a seller in prison. How do you think he got there in the first place?

See Walk for the Cure...more breast cancer....fail...fail....fail.

More curing eh? Maybe you should have been a doctor....you could also prescribe drugs while curing everything with simpleminded ideas.

Craptastic analogy, and not everything that is complicated needs a complicated solution.

Frankly, I don't care what you think about government...it is here to stay.

Never been arrested...do tell.

Sure....everybody in the pen is "innocent" too. Don't you think if the cops could magically parse the real crooks from the idiots that they might have a different job?

Then why are you and your fellow potheads always whining?

What logic? I have never understood doper logic....risking arrest, fine, and incarceration for a cheap thrill doesn't seem logical at all.

Let me guess...I need to smoke dope or freebase some crack to understand...right?

Many risk it for the simple reason the police don't really have a desire to pursue this type of criminal activity. Those that buy for personal are simply not on the radar. I am not risking a heck of a lot. 70% of the people I know would be doing jail time if it was up to you. I get all this right from the cops mouth. A long time friend who is now a cop does not give two shakes about busting people for pot. He rather go after the rapists and molesters and murderes ect ect. It obviously is a different mentality up here in Canada.. errr Doper-land. Maybe that is why it is not that huge of a problem as it seems in the US. I wonder why all my pot smoking friends have not gatewayed into something harder by now. I digress, sorry what were we talking about again?

Edited June 24, 2009 by GostHacked