jdobbin Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories The Conservative government is introducing legislation to repeal the so-called "faint hope" clause from the Criminal Code.If passed into law, the legislation would mean that anyone convicted of first- or second-degree murder would no longer be able to apply for early parole. "Our government believes murderers must serve serious time for the most serious crime," Justice Minister Rob Nicholson said in a statement Friday. "By ending faint hope reviews, we are saying No to early parole for murders. Sure hope the Tories intend to expand the prison system because most federal prisons are filled to the rafters. If this law is anything like we have seen in other jurisdictions, it will run smack dab into funding prisons over OAS or other programs. Edited June 5, 2009 by jdobbin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Like the idea. It will probably mean some expansion of jails though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Like the idea. It will probably mean some expansion of jails though. That will likely come with the Conservative tax increases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Not likely...probably just a never ending deficit. That seems to be where we're headed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Good move - about time - bet the libs fight it Borg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Good move - about time - bet the libs fight it I'll bet the Tories will go into deficit or raise taxes to put it in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borg Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 A divert - avoid the topic - hpw about your opinion on it And the comment that the libs will fight it Only good lib is one who is on his way out Borg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I'll bet the Tories will go into deficit or raise taxes to put it in place. Just think of it as one of those stimulus type construction projects. Good paying, unionized construction jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) Just think of it as one of those stimulus type construction projects. Good paying, unionized construction jobs. And a higher deficit and/or higher taxes. Conservatives are tax and spenders. Edited June 5, 2009 by jdobbin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 A divert - avoid the topic - hpw about your opinion on it I think it once again takes out individual assessments out of the hands of parole boards. It takes in no account of whether a person remains a threat, whether they have shown any rehabilitation, whether they would be better off on a parole. It takes no consideration of the costs of housing people where there is no exceptions in sentencing. And the comment that the libs will fight it The Tories are all about removing any discretion from the courts and parole boards they don't really believe in them. They don't care how much it costs and are prepared to let taxes rise, deficits to rise or cut spending that many Canadians wants like OAS. Only good lib is one who is on his way out I would have said the good Tories were ones that had some fiscal sense but we don't have any of those anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I would have said the good Tories were ones that had some fiscal sense but we don't have any of those anymore. You say that during one of the deepest world recessions in decades. And if they cut spending, you'd call the cruel and heartless. So basically you want them to raise taxes during a borderline depression. That's about the worst thing you could do to our economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStoriesSure hope the Tories intend to expand the prison system because most federal prisons are filled to the rafters. If this law is anything like we have seen in other jurisdictions, it will run smack dab into funding prisons over OAS or other programs. I believe Paul Bernardo is due for "faint hope" consideration, likely the reason for this bit of Tory 'window dressing'. It's just pandering to their core. There is no hope whatsoever of Bernardo getting out, but they'll play it for political gain. Waste of taxpayer money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 You say that during one of the deepest world recessions in decades. And if they cut spending, you'd call the cruel and heartless. So basically you want them to raise taxes during a borderline depression. That's about the worst thing you could do to our economy. So deficits it is. There are no fiscal conservatives left anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tango Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 (edited) So deficits it is. There are no fiscal conservatives left anymore. In my opinion, true fiscal conservatives are those who look to long term gain, not short term profit and immediate political gain. There are lots of us true fiscal conservatives left, but we don't belong to the Tory party. They are faux fiscal conservatives who see only to the end of their nose ... or careers. Faux fiscal conservatives, for example, choose to pay over $40,000/yr to incarcerate people and keep increasing the number of incarcerations, instead of looking long term and investing the money in children's well-being to prevent future crime. It's like continually paying to patch and repaint bigger and bigger parts of your ceiling, instead of fixing your leaky roof: False economies! Tory fiscal conservatives are only looking to their own pocketbook, not to the future of all. Edited June 5, 2009 by tango Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStoriesSure hope the Tories intend to expand the prison system because most federal prisons are filled to the rafters. If this law is anything like we have seen in other jurisdictions, it will run smack dab into funding prisons over OAS or other programs. I'm more than willing to fund as much prison construction as it takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 And a higher deficit and/or higher taxes.Conservatives are tax and spenders. Yes. Your party too. Pot, meet kettle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I'm more than willing to fund as much prison construction as it takes. And so my statement is proven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 So deficits it is. There are no fiscal conservatives left anymore. Oh, there are. It's just that during deep recessions, a deficit is understandable, and sometimes necessary. In fact, even Michael Ignatieff signed on to $100 billion dollars of federal stimulus. And raising taxes during a recession is about the worst thing you can do. Please leave our economy alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontyBurns Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I think it once again takes out individual assessments out of the hands of parole boards. It takes in no account of whether a person remains a threat, whether they have shown any rehabilitation, whether they would be better off on a parole.It takes no consideration of the costs of housing people where there is no exceptions in sentencing. The Tories are all about removing any discretion from the courts and parole boards they don't really believe in them. They don't care how much it costs and are prepared to let taxes rise, deficits to rise or cut spending that many Canadians wants like OAS. I would have said the good Tories were ones that had some fiscal sense but we don't have any of those anymore. You're right. Let's support those murderers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 You're right. Let's support those murderers! Let's support justice and common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Oh, there are. It's just that during deep recessions, a deficit is understandable, and sometimes necessary. Many jurisdictions make deficits illegal. Therefore, it becomes a choice between education or prison. Your Conservatives would rather imprison people than fund highways and higher education. In fact, even Michael Ignatieff signed on to $100 billion dollars of federal stimulus. And raising taxes during a recession is about the worst thing you can do. Please leave our economy alone. Harper raised taxes in his first year in office. He will raise them again but will lie about doing so. Harper has said he will raise taxes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Yes. Your party too. Pot, meet kettle. But not deficit builders. That is your party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I'm more than willing to fund as much prison construction as it takes. Please tell how it will be paid for and what you would cut to do it. We have seen jurisdictions where they have had to make a choice between prisons or education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontyBurns Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Your Conservatives would rather imprison people than fund highways and higher education. Don't you think murderers should be in jail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted June 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 In my opinion, true fiscal conservatives are those who look to long term gain, not short term profit and immediate political gain. Well, that can't be the present Tories at all. There are lots of us true fiscal conservatives left, but we don't belong to the Tory party. Libertarian party? Faux fiscal conservatives, for example, choose to pay over $40,000/yr to incarcerate people and keep increasing the number of incarcerations, instead of looking long term and investing the money in children's well-being to prevent future crime. I hear you there. It's like continually paying to patch and repaint bigger and bigger parts of your ceiling, instead of fixing your leaky roof: False economies!Tory fiscal conservatives are only looking to their own pocketbook, not to the future of all. It is why I think the choices the Tories make now are going to raise question about whether they will support prisons and prisoners as an ever growing line item in the budget so that it starts displacing OAS, child support, even defence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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