capricorn Posted June 8, 2009 Author Report Posted June 8, 2009 Another bridge is blocked in a show of solidarity with the Mohawks' resistance to armed border guards. About 40 Mohawk protesters blocked a bridge in eastern Ontario Sunday evening in support of a nearby First Nations community engaged in a standoff with the federal government over the arming of border guards.Protesters blocked either side of the Skyway bridge, which spans the Bay of Quinte near Belleville, Ont., and links the Tyendinaga Mohawk Territory and Prince Edward County. Shawn Brant, a well-known activist in Tyendinaga, helped organize the blockade. Brant and other Mohawks plan to stay on the bridge until the federal government makes a commitment to hold what they describe as meaningful talks with Mohawks in Akwesasne. The Akwesasne territory is located near Cornwall, Ont., east of Kingston. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/06/08/...lockade697.html A fine start to summer in the great Province of Ontariariario. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Smallc Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 That's why this has to be settled without the crossing being moved. This can't be allowed to stand. Quote
charter.rights Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 That's why this has to be settled without the crossing being moved. This can't be allowed to stand. It has to be settled through negotiation without and predisposition and conditions. The government and Cornwall stand to lose lots if the crossing is moved....and it is highly unlikely the US will allow it to be moved anyway. They have a greater stake in it being where it is. Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
Smallc Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 It has to be settled through negotiation without and predisposition and conditions.The government and Cornwall stand to lose lots if the crossing is moved....and it is highly unlikely the US will allow it to be moved anyway. They have a greater stake in it being where it is. For once, I agree with you. Quote
capricorn Posted June 8, 2009 Author Report Posted June 8, 2009 Just when it seemed that the Mohawks at Akwesasne were headed for a negotiated resolution to their opposition of armed Canadian border guards, rogue Mohawk agitators work to spoil the sauce. Actions of a small group of local protesters to block the Skyway Bridge here in support of the Akwesasne Mohawks are undercutting that community’s effort to bring a “peaceful solution” and threatens to pull the plug on any public support, say leaders from both reserves.Further, the move by local Mohawk activistss to block the bridge came only days after Grand Chief of the Akwesasne Mohawks asked native communities across Canada to not participate in any kind of traffic blockade or similar protest, but to lobby their local Members of Parliament. “A large part of the reason we are not asking others to blockade or cause harm in our name is because we currently hold a lot of sympathy from our surrounding neighbours and some of the Canadian government leadership,” wrote Chief Tim Thompson’s assistant, Karla Ransom, in an e-mail attached to a memorandum that was circulated to First Nations communities across Canada on June 5. “If there are random outbreaks of violence, it would detract from our message of a peaceful solution,” she added. “We would lose support of the voices the ministers need to hear the most — their constituents.” http://www.intelligencer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1603449 It doesn't help matters if hot heads and attention seekers like Shawn Brant undermine the efforts of well meaning Mohawk leaders. They should have learned by now that they need to keep Brant and his ilk in check. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 I think that negotiation is in fact the way to go. They can negotiate to either open the bridge or close the area, choose which ever the self governing First Nations folks want. Quote
Argus Posted June 8, 2009 Report Posted June 8, 2009 Another bridge is blocked in a show of solidarity with the Mohawks' resistance to armed border guards.http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/06/08/...lockade697.html A fine start to summer in the great Province of Ontariariario. I can see McGuinty now, lips quivering with terror at the thought some Indian might be hurt, screaming into the phone at all the police to keep back, to stay away, to not bother or insult or offend any of the aborigines. Then after about two years of dithering, he'll give the bridge to the natives as a present and tell the media what a wonderful, progressive leader he is. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
charter.rights Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 I can see McGuinty now, lips quivering with terror at the thought some Indian might be hurt, screaming into the phone at all the police to keep back, to stay away, to not bother or insult or offend any of the aborigines. Then after about two years of dithering, he'll give the bridge to the natives as a present and tell the media what a wonderful, progressive leader he is. The Skyway Bridge and Highway 49 already belong to the Mohawks of Tyendinaga. Ontario pays them a fee so we can use them and maintains them at our expense. If they choose to shut them down there isn't much that McGuinty or the OPP can do about it. Residents and busness owners can travel to Belleville or Trenton to get to Prince Edward county...if they want.... BTW. The same thing applies to the entire Bay of Quinte. It belongs to the Mohawks and they jsut let us use it as long as we use good judgment. Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
benny Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 To me, these native protestations are a resounding echo of the military violence that was everywhere surrounding the negotiations of past treaties between them and the Europeans. Quote
jbg Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) What is dumbfounding is that while those protesters don't want federal guards armed, the Akwasasne Mohawk Police stationed at the same location are armed. See the picture in this link that clearly shows they carry side arms.http://www.akwesasne.ca/news/ASPSP/ASPSPV1A24.html I'm really confused about the motives of the protesters. Why is it OK for the local Native police to be armed but it's not OK for federal guards to carry arms? Consistency is the hobgoblin of simple minds. </sarcasm> Hypocrisy is the hobgoblin of movements that want to harm the West and denigrate its accomplishments. Edited June 9, 2009 by jbg Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Smallc Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 The Skyway Bridge and Highway 49 already belong to the Mohawks of Tyendinaga. That's not usually the way it works. The government almost always purchases the road allowance and compensates the people with other land. Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 That's not usually the way it works. The government almost always purchases the road allowance and compensates the people with other land. Well if the government did not own it it may account for them wanting to relocate it no? Lets say they did not own the land and the bridge, or at best there is a legal question that may compromise the title. The First Nations are taking some very aggressive legal steps, time to deal with the problem. Quote
Smallc Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 (edited) What is certain is that they don't own the land that the border post is on. Whether or not they own the road, I don't know. Edited June 9, 2009 by Smallc Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 What is certain is that they don't own the land that the border post is on. Whether or not they own the road, I don't know. Either way the feds have some trouble coming. Quote
Smallc Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 It's something that the government has to sit down and work out...and I'm not sure that this government is capable of doing that. Quote
Jerry J. Fortin Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 It's something that the government has to sit down and work out...and I'm not sure that this government is capable of doing that. This one or any other. Look you cannot win against First Nations, you give an inch and they will decline the offer and seek a mile. Give them self government and be done with it. Let them tax and spend as they like, but lets not use our dollars to do it. Quote
Argus Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 The Skyway Bridge and Highway 49 already belong to the Mohawks of Tyendinaga. Ontario pays them a fee so we can use them and maintains them at our expense. If they choose to shut them down there isn't much that McGuinty or the OPP can do about it. Residents and busness owners can travel to Belleville or Trenton to get to Prince Edward county...if they want....BTW. The same thing applies to the entire Bay of Quinte. It belongs to the Mohawks and they jsut let us use it as long as we use good judgment. Uh, yeah okay. I'm having a little trouble figuring out how these bridges were financed and built by natives. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
charter.rights Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 That's not usually the way it works. The government almost always purchases the road allowance and compensates the people with other land. You don't know very much about the way land was acquired in Canada. The roads and bridges were built across Canada without any discussions or regard to First Nations' rights priorities or welfare. In the case of Tyendinaga the highways and bridges were built without even the consent of the band councils of the day and it is only in the last 10 years that the government has been willing to talk about them. The government has acknowledged that the Skyway Bridge, Hwy 49 and Hwy 2 were constructed on Mohawk land without consent. There is an agreement that allows non-native people to use the roads and bridges as long as the Province maintains them, and there has been not even a suggestion of compensation in any form. Part of Hwy 2 was returned to Tyendinaga's control returning the land on either side to the territory's legal possession (and the occupants evicted and the land expropriated. Maybe you should go back to school and study aboriginal legal history. You seem to be making up stuff and trying to pass it off as knowledge. Only lawyers and salesmen make up the truth and present it as fact. Are you a lawyer or just a snake oil salesman? Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
benny Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 Uh, yeah okay. I'm having a little trouble figuring out how these bridges were financed and built by natives. Even a beggar can make a lot of money if only s/he takes possession of the busiest downtown street corner. Quote
Smallc Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 You don't know very much about the way land was acquired in Canada. And you don't provide evidence from modern times...or really any evidence at all...for your claims. Quote
benny Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 And you don't provide evidence from modern times...or really any evidence at all...for your claims. In modern times, we can only speak of property transfers; the real problem is the compensation for very first appropriation. Quote
charter.rights Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 And you don't provide evidence from modern times...or really any evidence at all...for your claims. Sure I do. You just aren't paying attention. Check out the Amicus Curiea Factum issued for the Brantford injunction case. There are tons of facts for you to digest if you had spent the time. But then again, you're too lazy for that, aren't you..... It is much too easy just to lay back and depend on your myths. Developments are all in a modern context of land appropriations without consultation, accommodation or reconciliation as required by the SCoC. Quote “Safeguarding the rights of others is the most noble and beautiful end of a human being.” Kahlil Gibran “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” Albert Einstein
benny Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 Check out the Amicus Curiea Factum issued for the Brantford injunction case. At first sight, the crucial aspect is not only negotiation but negotiation in good faith. Quote
Smallc Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 Nothing relating to Aboriginal Title is in dispute of the Indian Act. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Posted June 9, 2009 Nothing relating to Aboriginal Title is in dispute of the Indian Act. Ahem...the Indian Act itself has been in dispute for many years....that's why Canada changes it. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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