International bridge shut down

[capricorn]

A U.S. border crossing in Cornwall, Ont., was closed just before midnight Sunday night in advance of an Akwesasne Mohawk protest.

Canadian Border Services Agency workers left their posts on Cornwall Island, citing safety concerns.

Reports say there are now about 40 Mohawks camped out near the building and they began cheering when news of the departure became known.

They are opposed to border guards arming themselves with handguns.

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/643505

The Native protesters threatening to storm the guard house is what caused the border guards to leave their posts.

Mohawk Warriors from the Akwesasne reserve near Cornwall, Ont. say they will storm a Canada Border Services Agency post today and shut down the international border crossing unless their political leaders receive a commitment from the federal government not to arm border guards at the post, which stands on reserve territory.

http://www.canada.com/Mohawk+Warriors+stor...0036/story.html

What is dumbfounding is that while those protesters don't want federal guards armed, the Akwasasne Mohawk Police stationed at the same location are armed. See the picture in this link that clearly shows they carry side arms.

http://www.akwesasne.ca/news/ASPSP/ASPSPV1A24.html

I'm really confused about the motives of the protesters. Why is it OK for the local Native police to be armed but it's not OK for federal guards to carry arms?

[bush_cheney2004]

...I'm really confused about the motives of the protesters. Why is it OK for the local Native police to be armed but it's not OK for federal guards to carry arms?

Because it is on their "sovereign" turf.

[Smallc]

I would suggest that the federal government should not give in to the demands. There's as absolutely no logical reason to do so.

Also, their land actually isn't sovereign I don't believe. They would have to declare that it is first.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Smallc

[geoffrey]

Cut off the welfare cheques and see how fast they change their minds. Simple. If they get our money, they get our terms. They don't want our terms? Find their own cash.

[Borg]

Go in with sweepers and clean them out

Rabble sucks the money out of the tax payer and puts nothing back but criminal activity

Time for them to go

Borg

[Smallc]

Ok....we shouldn't give in to their demands, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to end this in a reasonable manner.

[bush_cheney2004]

I would suggest that the federal government should not give in to the demands. There's as absolutely no logical reason to do so.

But their may be a political reason to do so.

Also, their land actually isn't sovereign I don't believe. They would have to declare that it is first.

The Americans have settled the land claims and are making payments. Has Ontario?

[Smallc]

The Americans have settled the land claims and are making payments. Has Ontario?

It isn't Ontario's place to do so. The federal government is working on it, but it is taking a long time.

[bush_cheney2004]

It isn't Ontario's place to do so. The federal government is working on it, but it is taking a long time.

No kidding.....this is the oft repeated excuse. Why so much foot dragging from the feds and province?

[Smallc]

No kidding.....this is the oft repeated excuse. Why so much foot dragging from the feds and province?

First, aboriginal people are under the jurisidiction of the federal government. Second, I don't know why. I know that things are getting time, but I would imagine that it takes time to work out a deal that is favourable to all parties.

[bush_cheney2004]

First, aboriginal people are under the jurisidiction of the federal government. Second, I don't know why. I know that things are getting time, but I would imagine that it takes time to work out a deal that is favourable to all parties.

Of course.....nothing but sunshine and patience for a process that remains a laughing stock as the same Canadians criticize Israel. Google tells me that the province is on the hook to pay up and settle this land claim. What is so fricking hard about this....pay up!

[Smallc]

Of course.....nothing but sunshine and patience for a process that remains a laughing stock as the same Canadians criticize Israel.

Oh yes, this is so similar to what happens to thwe palistinians.

Shouldn't you be worried about things that you can control....as you so oft tell Canadians that question the great US (with it's wonderful record on native relations)?

Canada is working out the problem with the consultation of Aboriginal people. It will get solved, but it isn't as easy as flipping a switch.

[Wild Bill]

Of course.....nothing but sunshine and patience for a process that remains a laughing stock as the same Canadians criticize Israel. Google tells me that the province is on the hook to pay up and settle this land claim. What is so fricking hard about this....pay up!

What's 'so fricking hard' is the AMOUNT to pay up! Some aboriginal bands have made demands that are up in the stratosphere and would bankrupt Canada for generations.

A few years ago I saw a study that totalled all the land claims in British Columbia. It exceeded the actual area of all the land in British Columbia!

Then we have problems like in Caledonia, where the natives argued amongst themselves as to who actually represented them and had the right to conduct the negotiations.

I'm not at all saying that the federal government has not been terribly remiss. I'm just saying its not as easy in all cases as you implied. There's a politically correct but totally illogical premise going around that natives are always right and non-natives are always wrong.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Wild Bill

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh yes, this is so similar to what happens to thwe palistinians.

PalestIndians.

Shouldn't you be worried about things that you can control....as you so oft tell Canadians that question the great US (with it's wonderful record on native relations)?

I'm not worried about this at all...just waiting for an ebay auction to end.

Canada is working out the problem with the consultation of Aboriginal people. It will get solved, but it isn't as easy as flipping a switch.

Sheesh...you should be a politician.

[Smallc]

Sheesh...you should be a politician.

If you want to know what I really think....i think that reserves should be divded up equally among aboriginals and they should not be reserves any more. Natives should cease being wards of the state, and they should have all of the same rights and responsibilities as everyone else. The Indian Act should be abolished.

That's not to say that natives should cease forget who they are and the culture that they have, I simply think that there are too many differences that still exist and these differences create annimosity on both sides.

[charter.rights]

I'm really confused about the motives of the protesters. Why is it OK for the local Native police to be armed but it's not OK for federal guards to carry arms?

Because the border guards have harassed and injured Mohawks that have been passing through the station. According to the Jay Treaty Mohawks are afforded free passage without harassment or interference between Canada and the US. As well the Akwesasne - St. Regis Reserve exists on either side of the Ontario -US and Quebec - US border. People from Akwesasne must pass the border station on their own territory just to visit relatives or do business on their own territory.

Late last year the Canadian Border guards stopped and violently detained two elderly grandmothers. They yanked them from their car and shoved them into the ground for no reason, putting both of them in the hospital. They had no right to stop and detain the Mohawk grandmothers. These kinds of events are escalating and it is fear that when they have guns in their hands the Border guards will use them. There are many racist border guards that man that station and so the Chief and Council of Akwesasne do not want them armed and have passed a law prohibiting them from carrying guns. The Mohawk police are the law enforcement agency at Akwesasne.

The federal government has the choiuce of either disarming the border guards at this station, or moving the Border station off of the Mohawk Territory into Cornwall. Either way they cannot stop Mohawks from travelling to the US side or back again on their own land.

[Argus]

What we should do is establish border posts and patrols along the Akwesasne border and search anyone who leaves. The Mohawks there have been notorious for smuggling, drugs, firearms, tobacco and people for decades, and the reserve is basically controlled by organized crime.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Argus

[charter.rights]

Of course.....nothing but sunshine and patience for a process that remains a laughing stock as the same Canadians criticize Israel. Google tells me that the province is on the hook to pay up and settle this land claim. What is so fricking hard about this....pay up!

Canada has no interest in settling lands claims - especially the really big ones - because they know that it will open a whole number of jurisdictional issues. And the cost would be prohibitive. The federal government has assumed authority over native peoples, but there is no legal right to do so. Having a fiduciary responsibility is not the same thing as taking control of them. In the case of the Mohawks, treaties and agreements with the Crown not only guaranteed their sovereignty and protection, but Six Nations and the Mohawks (inclusive) never relinquished most of southern Ontario. Jurisdiction wise, Six Nations holds title over southern Ontario and has since the Royal Proclamation was made in 1762. Imagine the cost of mining, resource extraction and development if we had to pay the Moahwks what we really owe them for the rent of their land......

Akwesasne Territory was in place before the Americans and the British ever thought to make nice. Hence the Jay Treaty guaranteed an open border for Mohawks and by default all native people.

[charter.rights]

What we should do is establish border posts and patrols along the Akwesasne border and search anyone who leaves. The Mohawks there have been notorious for smuggling, drugs, firearms, tobacco and people for decades, and the reserve is basically controlled by organized crime.

It is Canadians and Americans who are smuggling guns, drugs and firearms across the border to feed places like Toronto. They sometimes use Akwesasne, but mostly find other ways into the country. The tobacco trade is a legal industry on Mohawk territories. If Canadians come to the reserve to purchase smokes and you think it is against the law then perhaps you should start arresting Canadians as they leave the reserve.

That wouldn't be a very smart political move now would it.....

[Smallc]

It would be smart for the people on the reserve to have an actual reason for doing this. They don't. Native people aren't always innocent of everything as you seem to assume. What they are doing is wrong.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Smallc

[bush_cheney2004]

It would be smart for the people on the reserve to have an actual reason for doing this. They don't. Native people aren't always innocent of everything as you seem to assume. What they are doing is wrong.

That's even more patronizing and arrogant.....New York State already reached a settlement. American judges have consistently upheld the rights of Natives to hunt, fish, and gather off of reservations according to treaties. This means that the resource is assessed for harvest and shared by all parties, or compensation is paid.

Methinks that First Nations get more of a run-around under the Crown.

[Smallc]

That's even more patronizing and arrogant.....New York State already reached a settlement. American judges have consistently upheld the rights of Natives to hunt, fish, and gather off of reservations according to treaties.

Ummmm....they've been able to do that here since the treaties were signed.

[capricorn]

It would be smart for the people on the reserve to have an actual reason for doing this. They don't. Native people aren't always innocent of everything as you seem to assume. What they are doing is wrong.

To be fair, it's only a small group of Natives who are engaged in this protest. Most people on the reserve just want to get on with their lives. But as we see, that small group can cause a lot of headaches for all who are affected by the closure of the bridge, including hindering the free flow of their own co-residents.

Well, they got their way with this major disruption of a busy international border. The feds closed the bridge and will not re-open it until the community, including the Mohawks, accept armed border guards.

The federal government won't reopen a Canada-U.S. border crossing on a native reserve in eastern Ontario until the local community accepts armed border guards at the Canadian border post on their land, Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan said Monday.

The federal government pre-emptively shut down the Cornwall Island, Ont., crossing shortly before midnight Sunday when Mohawks vowed to prevent Monday's planned arming of border guards on the Akwesasne reserve, which straddles the Ontario, Quebec and New York borders. The U.S. side of the crossing was also shut down at the request of Canadian authorities, New York State police said.

Van Loan said there were no plans to reopen the crossing until the Mohawks agree to allow armed guards at the post.

"A decision was taken to close that crossing," said Van Loan. "That will remain the case until such time as the local Mohawk band indicates they are willing to accept the border officers being armed as is government policy."

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Eastern+bor...9395/story.html

Canada is a laughing stock. All this talk about counter terrorism measures on a grand scale, and we can't even settle grievances from a few domestic radicals.

[Smallc]

To be fair, it's only a small group of Natives who are engaged in this protest.

I never meant to suggest that it wasn't. I have no problem with native people...I have problems with activists and radicals.

Canada is a laughing stock.

I wouldn't go that far. I'd rather we solve this in a way that won't result in riots.

[capricorn]

I never meant to suggest that it wasn't. I have no problem with native people...I have problems with activists and radicals.

Well then smallc, we're on the same page.

I'd rather we solve this in a way that won't result in riots.

Some elements want one thing above all...confrontation. We've seen this movie before.