Ignatieff calls bilingualism the essence of Canada

CANADIEN · May 30, 2009

There are those who would claim that I, as a French-speaking Canadian, should assimilate.

That would be to become someone that I am not right now, since that's the end result of assimilation.

FACT is, I could not assimilate to become a Canadian, since I already AM a Canadian.

fellowtraveller · May 30, 2009

Quebec, provincially, has that right, just as at least 4 other provinces have the same right, exculuding (I think) that Manitoba and Ontario do...and New Brunswick certainly doesn't. Manitoba and Ontario already have bilingual government service, and it is official in New Bruswick.

The words are English, the rest I don't understand.

The only officially bilingual province is New Brunswick.

Quebec is unilingual French, the rest are unilingual English.

Machjo · May 30, 2009

The words are English, the rest I don't understand.
The only officially bilingual province is New Brunswick.

Quebec is unilingual French, the rest are unilingual English.

Nunavut is quadrilingual English, French, Inuinnaqtun and Inuktitut.

fellowtraveller · May 30, 2009

Nunavut is quadrilingual English, French, Inuinnaqtun and Inuktitut.

All three of the Territories are irrelavent.

CANADIEN · May 30, 2009

This coming from a French propagandist. What a joke.

The joke is that you think there are french propagandists here.

Minorities do not control the majority(...)

And that includes Canada.

I don't think that is any of your buisness

Actually, adequate access to hospital services for all Canadians is the business of ALL Canadians. Adequate access to hospital services for all Ontarians is the business of ALL Ontarians, including myself.

If there is inadequate access to hospital services in English in Ottawa, then it is my business as an Ontarian and a Canadian to argue that they should improve, and to vote in politicians who would make it happen.

Are hospital services offered to English-speakers in ottawa adequate or not? If you think not, prove it with something less laughable than "the services are also offered in French".

as it is the majority English speaking tax payers of Ottawa and tax payers of Ontario who should be calling the shots

Here we go with the "elected politicians represents me only when they agree with my preejudice" nonsense.

And btw, I am an Ontario taxpayer. I am still waiting for you or anyone to prove that I pay less taxes than other Ontarian because of my first language.

Edited May 30, 2009 by CANADIEN

Smallc · May 30, 2009

Quebec is unilingual French, the rest are unilingual English.

Other than NB, QC , and the federal government and territories, there is no jurisdiction with an official language. Despite that fact, Ontario and Manitoba provide government services in both of the federal governments official languages and I believe there is a law somewhere (maybe even a provincial law) that requires them to do so (at least in the case of Manitoba).

CANADIEN · May 30, 2009

Other than NB, QC , and the federal government and territories, there is no jurisdiction with an official language. Despite that fact, Ontario and Manitoba provide government services in both of the federal governments official languages and I believe there is a law somewhere (maybe even a provincial law) that requires them to do so (at least in the case of Manitoba).

In the case of Ontario, a provincial law voted UNALYMOUSLY by the representatives of the people governs the provision of services in French.

In Manitoba, it stems from the terms of admission of the Province into Confederation.

Edited May 30, 2009 by CANADIEN

Smallc · May 30, 2009

In the case of Ontario, a provincial law voted UNALYMOUSLY by the representatives of the people governs the provision of services in French.
In Manitoba, it stems from the terms of admission of the Province into Confederation.

Yes, I thought the second one was true, but I wasn't sure about the first. Because of these two facts, if Manitoba or Ontario were to choose to have official languages, English and French would have to be included.

Leafless · May 30, 2009

It really is a shame that you have such an insulting view of us, because I do agree with some of your points on some occasions, yet can't support you because of your motives. Even on the few points we can agree on, we disagree fundamentally on why we support that view.

Isn't it nice living in a free and democratic country.

Generally speaking, I would be more inclined to support someone I disagree with but whom I consider well-intentioned, than someone I agree with but whose motives I question.

So who and what fashions your motives?

My opposition to official bilingualism stems to some degree from a moderately libertarian view of the world. Yours seems to stem out of a belief that all Quebecers hate Engish-speakers, that all Quebecers oppose freedom, and that the very roots of French cultures oppose it.

After two referendums to separate from Canada it is a FACT and not a belief.

Have you never heard of Descarte, Montesquieux, Rousseau, etc.

My values and beliefs are Western based and are formed by the White, English speaking culture.

Or what about that Reformer who'd trampled on a Quebec flag under Manning's leadership?

This is totally insignificant after all of Quebec's cultural antics.

Sure there's igotry in Quebec, but now you seem to be saying that ALL French_Quebecers are like that.

It seems the large majority support Quebec nationalism and still many support separatism, French as an official language, Language of the French Charter.

Just read a few very recent media articles like, 'Most Quebecers say newcomers should give up their culture' or 'Quebec's regulatory barriers limit labour mobility' etc. etc.

CANADIEN · May 30, 2009

Isn't it nice living in a free and democratic country.

Too bad you keep whining about an integral component of democracy and freedom... respect for individual rights.

benny · May 30, 2009

After two referendums to separate from Canada it is a FACT and not a belief.

Both were inconclusive at best.

Smallc · May 30, 2009

After two referendums to separate from Canada it is a FACT and not a belief.

Two failed referendums.

CANADIEN · May 30, 2009

Two failed referendums.

Don't remind him. It's sure is a big source of disappointment to him.

benny · May 30, 2009

Two failed referendums.

Arguably, the second one has been "stolen" by Ottawa: remember the "love-in" in Montreal.

Smallc · May 30, 2009

Arguably, the second one has been "stolen" by Ottawa

Arguably not. The problem with the second one is that too many who would have voted no stayed home and many of those who voted yes didn't understand the question.

benny · May 30, 2009

Arguably not. The problem with the second one is that too many who would have voted no stayed home and many of those who voted yes didn't understand the question.

Another problem seems to have been non-Quebecers came in Montreal to vote at this referendum.

Edited May 30, 2009 by benny

CANADIEN · May 30, 2009

My values and beliefs are Western based and are formed by the White, English speaking culture.

And French culture as well as french-Canadian cultures are not white or Western. :lol: :lol: :lol:

This is totally insignificant after all of Quebec's cultural antics.

The same one you would gladly adopt?

Edited May 30, 2009 by CANADIEN

benny · May 30, 2009

My values and beliefs are Western based and are formed by the White, English speaking culture.

English culture owes a lot to French culture: just think at Guillaume le Conquérant (William the Conqueror).

Machjo · May 30, 2009

All three of the Territories are irrelavent.

How so?

Leafless · May 30, 2009

If there is inadequate access to hospital services in English in Ottawa, then it is my business as an Ontarian and a Canadian to argue that they should improve, and to vote in politicians who would make it happen.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha.

Do you actually think that the 4% Francophone population of Ontario, IN THE REAL WORLD, would get any kind of political attention.

Are hospital services offered to English-speakers in ottawa adequate or not?

As a matter of fact they are not, thanks to the influx of Quebecers who come to Ottawa, Ontario for treatment simply because their own provincial government is to incompetent to put their money where it is needed...in hospitals.

Quebec should be able to afford it as they only receive about $16.4 billion dollars in major federal transfer payments plus all kinds of subsidies.

Here we go with the "elected politicians represents me only when they agree with my preejudice" nonsense.

It's not prejudiced at all when you know the majority of Francophones want to be segragated in their own little cultural ghetto.

Edited May 30, 2009 by Leafless

fellowtraveller · May 30, 2009

How so?

Because they have zero weight, politically. Any reasonably sized town in the rest of Canada has more voters.

If federal funding were cut off, all three would be depopulated in weeks.

Yukon. for example, has less than 32,000 people and four levls of govt., which is obviously the largest 'industry' by far. All of them are ultimately paid for by federal taxpayers.

Leafless · May 30, 2009

English culture owes a lot to French culture: just think at Guillaume le Conquérant (William the Conqueror).

The French language actually improved the English language which is all the more reason for Francophones to use it.

Francophones should be proud of the English language.

English absorbed a large vocabulary from Norman and French, via Anglo-Norman after the Norman Conquest and directly from French in subsequent centuries. As a result, a large portion of English vocabulary is derived from French, with some minor spelling differences (word endings, use of old French spellings, etc.),

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language

Machjo · May 30, 2009

Because they have zero weight, politically. Any reasonably sized town in the rest of Canada has more voters.
If federal funding were cut off, all three would be depopulated in weeks.

Yukon. for example, has less than 32,000 people and four levls of govt., which is obviously the largest 'industry' by far. All of them are ultimately paid for by federal taxpayers.

So in other words, human rights are directly proportional to political weight? Wow. Sucks to be an aboriginal in Canada, eh.

CANADIEN · May 30, 2009

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha.
Do you actually think that the 4% Francophone population of Ontario, IN THE REAL WORLD, would get any kind of political attention.

We are, through respect for the rights of the individual. Sorry it clashes with your delusion.

As a matter of fact they are not, thanks to the influx of Quebecers who come to Ottawa, Ontario for treatment simply because their own provincial government is to incompetent to put their money where it is needed...in hospitals.
Quebec should be able to afford it as they only receive about $16.4 billion dollars in major federal transfer payments plus all kinds of subsidies.

The fact that Quenecers should get health care in Quebec aside, let's get to the real point, shall we? The fact that any excuse will do for you to treat French-speaking Ontarians like if they were not Ontarian?