Toews accuses Grits of bashing unilingual citizens

[Argus]

Too bad for you, but the days when people got harassed, fined, fired for their jobs for defending their rights to services in French and to recieve an education in French are not going back.

Official languages within the public service has virtually nothing to do with providing services to the public in the official language of their choice. More than 90% of those positions which require bilingualism within the public service have no contact with the public whatsoever.

[OddSox]

Try the Swiss

Swiss languages

Actually, you don't have to travel that far... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nunavut#Language

[CANADIEN]

Nobody cares enough about what New Brunswickers want to impliment a policy of this size and expense. It was done to appease the ever-whining, ever threatening mob of Quebecois. You think the policy would remain if Quebec separated?

Since Quebec is not leaving anytime soon, we won't know will we. Guess there will be a lot happening before you're left tobe the only whiner on board.

Edited May 9, 2009 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

Official languages within the public service has virtually nothing to do with providing services to the public in the official language of their choice. More than 90% of those positions which require bilingualism within the public service have no contact with the public whatsoever.

Indeed. It has to do with English and french having equal status. Another thing that is not going away, despite your whining.

[August1991]

It's funny, but you cannot even apply for a competition for the position of the most junior manager in the public service in Ottawa unless you are fluently bilingual. For that matter, you can't be a clerk or a messenger or a security guard or receptionist either. If we applied the same rule to parliament there wouldn't be more than a dozen or so people there who could keep their jobs.

Politicians and civil servants are not the same thing.

They are as different as an employee of GM and a shareholder of GM.

We, the people, hire civil servants to do jobs. We want them to have specific skills. We, the people (and our representatives) have different criteria.

Well, the official languages policies, especially the ones applicable within the public service, were created by Quebecers for the benefit of Quebecers, then expanded by Quebecers for the benefit of Quebecers. We don't require every single manager in Ottawa all the way up to deputy minister rank be fluently bilingual in order to please New Brunswick.

The federal Official Languages policy was created to be a reflection of Canada.

But look Argus, why argue? You're right. The federal government should do everything in English. It would be so much simpler.

I would be happy to see kebec and their ilk depart the country.

Most of my colleagues share your sentiment as I do on occasion.

If you PM me, I will give the PO box of the Parti Québécois. You can make a contribution.

Edited May 9, 2009 by August1991

[Argus]

Indeed. It has to do with English and french having equal status. Another thing that is not going away, despite your whining.

Oh it will go away, all right. The percentage of french speakers continues to decline, year after year. And while you can guilt-trip liberal Anglos into giving French co-equal status few immigrants are much impressed. As their numbers grow, and the numbers of French speakers continues to decline (francophones have an extremely low birth rate), it will become increasingly difficult to justify this absurd policy.

French is a ridiculous language anyway. Even most Francophones don't know how to speak or write it properly.

[Argus]

Politicians and civil servants are not the same thing.

Explain to me how they are different.

They are as different as an employee of GM and a shareholder of GM.

A silly analogy. The politicians aren't shareholders. The public are the shareholders.

We, the people, hire civil servants to do jobs. We want them to have specific skills. We, the people (and our representatives) have different criteria

.

We hire politicians to do a job, too. And if we insist that every assistant deputy minister in the public service be fluent in both languages how can we not insist that their bosses, those ministers who actually have continual contact with the public, have no such need?

The federal Official Languages policy was created to be a reflection of Canada.

The public service is in no way a reflection of Canada

But look Argus, why argue? You're right. The federal government should do everything in English. It would be so much simpler.

I didn't say the federal government should do everything in English - although the Quebec government does everything in French and has no interest in hiring, much less promoting English speakers. What I said was that the official language policy which insists that language ability is the primary critieria for the selection and promotion of management within the public service is ludicrously expensive in terms of the type of incompetents it winds up producing. I've only been in the public service for ten years but I can attest to the continual deterioration in the quality of management in concert with the expanded determination to ensure every one of them is fluent in French. The dominant (by far) factor in the thinking of most long time public servants looking to change jobs, to move around, is the desperate yearning for a job which has a semi-competent manager and a director who isn't a micromanaging idiot. It's a rare combination when you can find a place like that nowadays.

[CANADIEN]

Explain to me how they are different.

You need that difference to be explained to you. That explains a lot about you.

I've only been in the public service for ten years but I can attest to the continual deterioration in the quality of management in concert with the expanded determination to ensure every one of them is fluent in French.

Plus of course, the requirement that managers whose first language is French be fluent in English. Right?

[Argus]

You need that difference to be explained to you. That explains a lot about you.

Plus of course, the requirement that managers whose first language is French be fluent in English. Right?

Unsurprisingly, the requirement means that a growing number of management and executives have French as their first language. In fact, inevitably, within the next dozen years or so most managers and executives will be Quebecers under the more stringent rules now in place.

[Borg]

Nobody here speaks out for the Englsih-speaking minority in Quebec? Yiu obviosuly missed my past comments on Quebec's language legislations. Feel free to check them, but something tells me that will not be enough for you since I "fail" to use it to justify an attack on linguistic rights for all Canadians.

[WARNING: now is the part you will consider a personal attack, but in ase you did not figure that out, your attack on my rights as a Canadian is very personal to me]

Your comments about the "so called" preferential treatments of French-speaking CANADIANS outside Quebec, how we (French-speaking Canadians who were born, live, work and will die in provinces other than Quebec) have moved outside our borners (sorry to disappoint you, but Quebec is and will be part of Canada), your dismissal of linguistic rights with a curt "they speak English" (your next posting) makes your position very clear to me. I am a second-class Canadian, who has no place outside a small part of the country unless I renounce my rights and ny identity as a Canadian.

Too bad for you, but the days when people got harassed, fined, fired for their jobs for defending their rights to services in French and to recieve an education in French are not going back. And while I know it's more than time that the Quebec government starts using their brains, I will not suspend or renounce exercising my rights as a Canadian in the meantime. Nor am I stupid enough to believe for one second that you would accept equal rights if Quebec language laws were changed.

[WARNIING: Now is the personal attack. And yes, it's aimed at YOU, personnally. Do yourself a favour amd do not insult your own intelligence by arguing I am saying this because you are an English-speaker, or because you don't like Quebec language laws].

If you think for one second that your childish attempt at insulting Quebecers with your intentional misspelling ia fazing me or anybody else, you're wrong. Just confirms how laughable you are.

French speakers get preferential treatment - and that is a fact.

Anglos in kebec get harassed, fined and jailed for English signage.

It is not a two way street

Until it is, the franco population has the better piece of the pie

As for the personal attack - not a prob - I am bigger than that.

When the laws in kebec match those of Canada we will have equality - until then the franco population in this country can all go home and stay there.

Or leave.

We would be better off for it

Borg

[Leafless]

When the laws in kebec match those of Canada we will have equality - until then the franco population in this country can all go home and stay there.

Borg

CANADIEN likes to identify himself as a Franco-Ontarian.

The only problem is, he is not a Francophone if he lives in Ontario as it would be virtually impossible to exist day by day speaking only French in Ontario.

What CANADIEN really should be designated as (and others like him in Ontario or elsewhere in the country) is simply a bilingual individual.

This way there would be no Francophones living outside of Quebec and Francophones outside of Quebec would be a non-issue.

Blame our politically correct politicians for giving away rights to so called Francophones in provinces that have nothing to do with federal official languages.

[CANADIEN]

French speakers get preferential treatment - and that is a fact.

Let me compage English and French-speakers in Ontario... Access to similar educational facilities (actually, a bit better on the English side). Access to the same federal services (in most cases). Limited access to the provincial services. In other words, equality, mostly. That's not preferential treatment, and that's a fact.

As for the personal attack - not a prob - I am bigger than that.

kebec

That shows how small you're actually are.

When the laws in kebec match those of Canada(...)

You'll already have another excuse to treat French-spealing CANADIANS like third-class citizens in their own country.

The ignorant basis for your opposition to equal rights is evident in this...

franco population in this country can all go home and stay there.

Thank you very much Sir for authorizing me to go to... Toronto.

Or leave.

You're welcome to follow your own advice and rejoin the collective anytime.

Then I will be happy to say

We would be better off for it

Edited May 10, 2009 by CANADIEN

[Borg]

Have a good one when you go back to your roots

Be sure to take the remainder with you

Borg

[CANADIEN]

CANADIEN likes to identify himself as a Franco-Ontarian.

Indeed, since I AM Frnaco-Ontarian.

The only problem is, he is not a Francophone if he lives in Ontario

Do you deliberately manage to get more clueless every time I believe you cannot make even less sense?

:lol:

[CANADIEN]

Have a good one when you go back to your roots

You mean next I go too Europe I will allowed to go back to CANADA? Thank you so very much for allowing the third-class person that I am to return where his roots are.

[Leafless]

Indeed, since I AM Frnaco-Ontarian.

Obviously you are not even spelling correctly what you think you are.

My Oxford dictionary defines Franco as 'French'.

My Oxford dictionary defines Francophone as 'French speaking'.

The province of Ontario is NOT a French speaking province and does NOT recognize federal official languages as the official languages of the province.

name='CANADIEN' date='May 10 2009, 07:38 AM' post='418070']

Do you deliberately manage to get more clueless every time I believe you cannot make even less sense?

Then as a bilingual Canadian you must be an idiot or purposely obtuse.

[CANADIEN]

Obviously you are not even spelling correctly what you think you are.

I know who I am, I know I am the king of typos ( :lol: ) And I know I don't count on you for any English language lesson.

My Oxford dictionary defines Franco as 'French'.

My Oxford dictionary defines Francophone as 'French speaking'.

And I am French-speaking.

The province of Ontario is NOT a French speaking province and does NOT recognize federal official languages as the official languages of the province.

We have already established that English is the first language as a majority of Ontarians, that this has nothing to do with the rights of Ontarians to receive services in either English or French, and that English is not an official language of Ontario at the provincial level.

Which means, if one has to follow your latest bit of clueless non-sense, that you are not an English speaker.

And you wonder why I have no expectation of seeing you ever getting a clue.

Edited May 10, 2009 by CANADIEN

[Leafless]

I know who I am, I know I am the king of typos ( :lol: ) And I know I don't count on you for any English language lesson.

You still never did get that 'de-facto' thing, did you? And the hyphen is perfectly legitimate.

And the over use of your little emotion faces only indicates how disturbed you are.

And I am French-speaking.

Then why are you speaking English.

I know!

You must be a bilingual Francophone. Nope that's not it either, you are a bilingual Canadian.

We have already established that English is the first language as a majority of Ontarians,

Yes that is true. English speaking residents comprise approximately 96% of the population of Ontario.

that this has nothing to do with the rights of Ontarians to receive services in either English or French, and that English is not an official language of Ontario at the provincial level.

English is the de-facto language of Ontario.

And you are right that the 96% of English speaking residents in Ontario were and still are denied the right to protect their English language by provincially establishing English as the official language of Ontario from corrupt minority language policies.

Which means, if one has to follow your latest bit of clueless non-sense, that you are not an English speaker.

I am an English speaker.

I am an Anglophone that speaks and writes ONLY the English language in Ontario or anywhere else.

And you wonder why I have no expectation of seeing you ever getting a clue.

Look in the mirror.

[CANADIEN]

You still never did get that 'de-facto' thing, did you? And the hyphen is perfectly legitimate.

I got over it. The way you butcher the English is nothing more, and nothing less, than a reason to laugh at you.

Then why are you speaking English.

So now you have a problem with my choice of a second language. And you wonder why I laugh at you.

And you are right

(...) when I say you are clueless.

There is nothing threatening the English language in Ontario... except may the way you massacre it at very opportunity.

I am an English speaker.

Not according to YOUR logic.

I am an Anglophone that speaks and writes ONLY the English language in Ontario or anywhere else.

Nope. what you write only have a vague resemblance to English.

[Leafless]

I got over it. The way you butcher the English is nothing more, and nothing less, than a reason to laugh at you.

I really couldn't care what you think.

So now you have a problem with my choice of a second language. And you wonder why I laugh at you.

That makes you a bilingual Canadian and not a Francophone.

Laugh on moron.

There is nothing threatening the English language in Ontario...

Tribal morons like you threaten the English language not only in Ontario but throughout Canada.

except may the way you massacre it at very opportunity.

Personal insults is expected from someone like you who favours the destruction of Canada's majority social system via cultural relativism.

Not according to YOUR logic.

Yes, according to my logic. You just simply fail to comprehend.

Nope. what you write only have a vague resemblance to English.

Go to hell, CANADIEN.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Leafless

[CANADIEN]

That makes you a bilingual Canadian and not a Francophone.

Actually, I am trilingual. I also understand Leaflish. :lol:

[CANADIEN]

Tribal morons like you threaten the English language not only in Ontario but throughout Canada.

English translation... The English language is so weak that French in schools and at government counters will make it disappear.

And you wonder why I keep laughing at you.

Personal insults is expected from someone like you who favours the destruction of Canada's majority social system via cultural relativism.

English translation: French-speaking Canadians are not equal to other Canadians.

[Leafless]

English translation... The English language is so weak that French in schools and at government counters will make it disappear.

No, it is more like Quebec politicians (including you) engage in continual political disorder utilzing multiculturalism in order to devalue the English speaking culture and it's language.

And you wonder why I keep laughing at you.

You are not only laughing at me but all English speaking Canadians and their society.

English translation: French-speaking Canadians are not equal to other Canadians.

And obviously other Canadians are not equal to French speaking Canadians in Quebec and require their own English version of the Charter of the French Language.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Leafless

[DrGreenthumb]

No, it is more like Quebec politicians engage (including you) engage in continual political disorder utilzing multiculturalism in order to devalue the English speaking culture and it's language.

just curious, is that the same as how gay marriage devalue's straight marriage?

[Leafless]

just curious, is that the same as how gay marriage devalue's straight marriage?

I would say gay marriage makes a mockery out of Christian supported straight marriage and opens the back door to immoral acts.

There you have it.