UN - Israel’s Unlawful Use of White Phosphorus in Gaza

[DogOnPorch]

dude. your zingers are so out of this world.

your ridiculousness has nothing to do with the updated version of the story.

You just hate being wrong. Common amoungst those w/ inflated egos.

[dub]

It's available on

the UN rejects the video as being a footage from 2007.

UN rejects IDF claim Gaza militants operated from bombed-out school

The IDF on Tuesday released video footage from 2007 showing Palestinian militants firing from the school compound and carrying a rocket launcher with them as they flee the scene.

Gunnes said the 2007 video bears no connection to Tuesday's military strike on the school.

[dub]

You just hate being wrong. Common amoungst those w/ inflated egos.

of course i don't like being wrong but i have no problem admitting to it like i just did above.

what's wrong with you?

[DogOnPorch]

what's wrong with you?

Too much sex.

[dub]

by the way, just because 40+ people were killed "outside" of the school, it doesn't make what IDF did okay. whatever happened to IDF's precision bombs?

- what about the other school that was hit?

- what about the WP that hit the UN compound?

- what about the ambulances that were hit?

- the hospitals?

[dub]

Too much sex.

oh c'mon now. we all know you're not getting any sex from your wife.

[M.Dancer]

by the way, just because 40+ people were killed "outside" of the school, it doesn't make what IDF did okay. whatever happened to IDF's precision bombs?

- what about the other school that was hit?

- what about the WP that hit the UN compound?

- what about the ambulances that were hit?

- the hospitals?

How much more precise can you get? The 40 weren't daycare workers...they were armed fighters.

The ambulances were being used as troop carriers...which made the legal targets..there is video evidence of this.

WP doesn't hit anything...it explodes high in the sky and sometimes chunks fall down....

[DogOnPorch]

oh c'mon now. we all know you're not getting any sex from your wife.

If you say so.

[DogOnPorch]

How much more precise can you get? The 40 weren't daycare workers...they were armed fighters.

The ambulances were being used as troop carriers...which made the legal targets..there is video evidence of this.

WP doesn't hit anything...it explodes high in the sky and sometimes chunks fall down....

Yup...and no parading of bodies...as is typical re: Pallywood. Backfired bad last time.

[GostHacked]

eh?

i have never argued that WP was legal or illegal.

even the title of this thread says: "israel's unlawful use of WP"

after a thorough investigation by HRW, it has been determined that it was used illegally. go ahead and look through the 71 page report full of evidence.

Unlawful would tend to indicate it is illegal. but since there is no treaty or convention that exists for Israel to even sign on for. Regardless of these 'laws' that don't even really exist. Simply because the classification of WP as a WMD or else is up in the air.

And if you have never argued about WP being legal or not, then why is this thread 13 pages long?

[dub]

How much more precise can you get? The 40 weren't daycare workers...they were armed fighters.

The ambulances were being used as troop carriers...which made the legal targets..there is video evidence of this.

WP doesn't hit anything...it explodes high in the sky and sometimes chunks fall down....

back it up with links.

as far as WP; it doesn't matter if it hits anything or not. the way it is used can be illegal.

[dub]

Unlawful would tend to indicate it is illegal. but since there is no treaty or convention that exists for Israel to even sign on for. Regardless of these 'laws' that don't even really exist. Simply because the classification of WP as a WMD or else is up in the air.

And if you have never argued about WP being legal or not, then why is this thread 13 pages long?

after 13 pages, you still do not get it.

unlawful use means the way it was used was illegal. i recommend going through the report.

let me paste part of the report. i hope you comprehend it:

The IDF’s deliberate or reckless use of white phosphorus munitions is evidenced in five ways. First, to Human Rights Watch’s knowledge, the IDF never used its white phosphorus munitions in Gaza before, despite numerous incursions with personnel and armor. Second, the repeated use of air-burst white phosphorus in populated areas until the last days of the operation reveals a pattern or policy of conduct rather than incidental or accidental usage. Third, the IDF was well aware of the effects white phosphorus has and the dangers it can pose to civilians. Fourth, if the IDF used white phosphorus as an obscurant, it failed to use available alternatives, namely smoke munitions, which would have held similar tactical advantages without endangering the civilian population. Fifth, in one of the cases documented in this report – the January 15 strike on the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) headquarters in Gaza City – the IDF kept firing white phosphorus despite repeated warnings from UN personnel about the danger to civilians. Under international humanitarian law, these circumstances demand the independent investigation of the use of white phosphorus and, if warranted, the prosecution of all those responsible for war crimes.

The IDF at first denied using white phosphorus in Gaza, and then said it was using all weapons in compliance with international law. It now says it is conducting an investigation, reportedly run by a colonel, into the use of white phosphorus. Given the IDF’s record on previous internal investigations, and the relatively low rank of the reported investigation leader, the inquiry’s objectivity remains in doubt.

[M.Dancer]

back it up with links.

as far as WP; it doesn't matter if it hits anything or not. the way it is used can be illegal.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=116_1231063776

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/hamas-tri...2818246374.html

[GostHacked]

after 13 pages, you still do not get it.

unlawful use means the way it was used was illegal. i recommend going through the report.

let me paste part of the report. i hope you comprehend it:

That was not the point dub. You stated that you have not argued for the legality or legality of Israel's use of WP. Because if you did not think it was illegal, you would not have started the thread in the first place. So, I will stand by my statement that you are arguing that the use of WP was illegal.

Deb you said:

i have never argued that WP was legal or illegal.

You are though. I hope you can comprehend that.

[DogOnPorch]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=116_1231063776

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/hamas-tri...2818246374.html

[dub]Zionists staged that footage.[/dub]

Are Fatah members Supermen?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNNrdveEOew

It's a bird...it's a plane...it's...ewwwwwww.

[dub]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=116_1231063776

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/hamas-tri...2818246374.html

this is your evidence? you have the nerve to call the 71 page report full of real evidence as "amateurish"? you should try avoiding looking like DoP.

you've shown a video from who knows when and where with no write-ups. what happened to IDF's statements and video footage that they have of their targets? if the IDF saw fighters hijacking ambulances, they would also have videos of it.

you've also linked to an article that gets a statement from a person who may or may not exist and who, apparently, is a Fatah supporter. we know how much fatah and hamas love each other and we know that fatah already tried a coup in gaza and failed.

what about your claim that the 43 people killed outside of the UN compound were militants? where is the evidence?

[Rue]

okay. laugh away.

it won't change the fact that white phosphorus was used unlawfully by israel.

It was certainly used and it certainly is a weapon that causes horrible pain and suffering and I would think we all would like to see outlawed but the problem is it wasn't used unlawfully-that is precisely the problem that you seem to keep missing which is why it can be used.

There is zero proof it was used to intentionally attack civilians. That is why ALL countries have it and use in during armed conflict as part of their arsenal of missiles and shells including Hamas and Hezbollah.

[dub]

It was certainly used and it certainly is a weapon that causes horrible pain and suffering and I would think we all would like to see outlawed but the problem is it wasn't used unlawfully-that is precisely the problem that you seem to keep missing which is why it can be used.

There is zero proof it was used to intentionally attack civilians. That is why ALL countries have it and use in during armed conflict as part of their arsenal of missiles and shells including Hamas and Hezbollah.

wrong Rue.

maybe you also refuse to see the report that has already been posted. there is evidence that they used it unlawfully.

The IDF’s deliberate or reckless use of white phosphorus munitions is evidenced in five ways. First, to Human Rights Watch’s knowledge, the IDF never used its white phosphorus munitions in Gaza before, despite numerous incursions with personnel and armor. Second, the repeated use of air-burst white phosphorus in populated areas until the last days of the operation reveals a pattern or policy of conduct rather than incidental or accidental usage. Third, the IDF was well aware of the effects white phosphorus has and the dangers it can pose to civilians. Fourth, if the IDF used white phosphorus as an obscurant, it failed to use available alternatives, namely smoke munitions, which would have held similar tactical advantages without endangering the civilian population. Fifth, in one of the cases documented in this report – the January 15 strike on the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) headquarters in Gaza City – the IDF kept firing white phosphorus despite repeated warnings from UN personnel about the danger to civilians. Under international humanitarian law, these circumstances demand the independent investigation of the use of white phosphorus and, if warranted, the prosecution of all those responsible for war crimes.

The IDF at first denied using white phosphorus in Gaza, and then said it was using all weapons in compliance with international law. It now says it is conducting an investigation, reportedly run by a colonel, into the use of white phosphorus. Given the IDF’s record on previous internal investigations, and the relatively low rank of the reported investigation leader, the inquiry’s objectivity remains in doubt.

[DogOnPorch]

If Hamas cared, they would have evacuated the civilian population of Gaza City and Rafah to the Gaza country-side. But, they don't care about their own people except as political pawns.

[dub]

If Hamas cared, they would have evacuated the civilian population of Gaza City and Rafah to the Gaza country-side. But, they don't care about their own people except as political pawns.

a ridiculous argument.

how are you going to displace 1.5 million people into the country side for 3 weeks? what's wrong with you?

you just keep sinking lower and lower with your outrageous and ridiculous comments.

[DogOnPorch]

a ridiculous argument.

how are you going to displace 1.5 million people into the country side for 3 weeks? what's wrong with you?

you just keep sinking lower and lower with your outrageous and ridiculous comments.

During the Blitz, the UK moved civilian populations away from German bombers. During the Siege of Leningrad, most of the remaining million or so civilians who didn't starve were evacuated via the ice road across Lake Ladoga while under attack via the Luftwaffe. At Stalingrad, same deal, except the civilians were ferried across the Volga River...also under Luftwaffe fire. The French, rather than see war destroy Paris and slaughter its civilians during the 1940 campaign, declared it an open city.

There's no excuse.

Hamas wanted dead Palastinian Arab civilians. Good for the 6 o'clock news.

[Guest tweettweet]

NATO PFP Exercise in Georgia will put a stopper to Saakashvili’s presidency

NATO announced that it was going to conduct exercises Cooperative Longbow 09 / Cooperative Lancer 09 during the period 6 May to 1 June 2009 in Georgia with total of 1,300 troops taking part in it. Huh, looks like president Saakashvili has no clue what this exercise will end with for him for him in person. Resignation! Yes, yes, it has been long ago known he is no more wanted as president in the West, neither new US administration wants him to stay. They in the White House want some other political figure from among Georgian opposition in the place of Saakashvili. However, it turned out to be a little bit complicated. Saakashvili should better resign on his own free will but he is either ignoring all the steerling or is plain stupid to see which way the cat jumps. Somehow or other he keeps stiff upper lip and is not likely to resign. There is only one thing to make through it – his resignation is a foregone conclusion. He won’t resign by himself, then he will be forced to! And this is when NATO troops are going to be very useful! In order to avoid mass riots, NATO troops will take control over Georgia’s capital. Then Saakashvili will just only have to resign. The end. There it is Mikho! It was you alone who put an end to your president career when who signed a document to host NATO exercises in Georgia.

[Oleg Bach]

NATO has no legal authority over the civilian populace. Nor does the UN. Those that support the control of innocent civilians though force should stop being control freaks and learn to control themselves first.

[dub]

During the Blitz, the UK moved civilian populations away from German bombers.

so you are comparing the nazi attacks on the british people to israel's attack on the gazans? an interesting comparison.

the nazi's main objective was the demoralization of the british people. sounds a lot like what the IDF was trying to do to the palestinians.

can you show me something to back up your claim that the UK moved the civilian population out of the way? besides, of course, using the already available underground tube stations to shelter some of the people?

[Oleg Bach]

My father witnessed the horror of white phosphorus during world word 11 - He said men would submerge themselves in water to put it out - no matter what they did - when they re-emerged..the fire would continue to burn to the very bone ---- If Israel used it then they are Nazis. What the heck - it was the secularist Jews that invented Hitler for f** sake!