Nicholson to kill two-for-one prison-time credit ASAP

[jdobbin]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...25?hub=Politics

The Conservative government announced plans Wednesday to end the "two-for-one" credit judges often grant convicted criminals for time spent in pre-trial custody.

Justice Minister Rob Nicholson told reporters he expects the proposed legislation to be passed as quickly as possible, noting it has "widespread support."

I don't think there will be a problem getting approval.

The problem is that the government should be doing something about the time it takes to get from remand to the courtroom.

Edited March 27, 2009 by jdobbin

[Visionseeker]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...25?hub=Politics

I don't think there will be a problem getting approval.

The problem is that the government should be doing something about the time it takes to get from from remand to the courtroom.

To be frank, putting and end to 2 for 1 will solve a lot of the problem. 2 for 1 has built itself into the strategy of the defence:

Lawyer: "Look, you're going to be convicted and are facing 5 to 10 years when sentenced. I can shave this time by dragging my feet and delaying the trial through other procedural steps. What do you say?"

Accused: "Hell yeah."

By reducing the incentive to keep clients in jails, trials will move more quickly and the jails will become less over-crowded. It will take about 2 years before we see how effective the measure proves.

But to be really effective, the law needs to inject financial support to provincial courts help relieve the backlog.

[DrGreenthumb]

To be frank, putting and end to 2 for 1 will solve a lot of the problem. 2 for 1 has built itself into the strategy of the defence:

Lawyer: "Look, you're going to be convicted and are facing 5 to 10 years when sentenced. I can shave this time by dragging my feet and delaying the trial through other procedural steps. What do you say?"

Accused: "Hell yeah."

By reducing the incentive to keep clients in jails, trials will move more quickly and the jails will become less over-crowded. It will take about 2 years before we see how effective the measure proves.

But to be really effective, the law needs to inject financial support to provincial courts help relieve the backlog.

And there WILL be a huge backlog, what with Harper planning on jailing thousands more Canadians over pot offences.

[Shakeyhands]

I'm not sure that I don't agree that there should be some sort of credit given for pretrial custody.. not X2 but maybe x.1 or something and only after say 6 months pf pretrial custody.

[Muddy]

About bloody time! A victim of crime can be devastated at seeing a criminal walk early because his lawyer used the system and our tax dollars spent on court time and publicly paid lawyers. This could not only bring swift justice and truth in sentencing but save us tax dollars.

[Progressive Tory]

The problem is that the government should be doing something about the time it takes to get from from remand to the courtroom.

Exactly. We're turning into a police state. I'm all for legitimate tough on crime measures, but the entire system is in crisis.

Ruby said the holding centres are extremely overcrowded and prisoners are waiting much too long for trial. "The rule was a good rule developed by the courts to alleviate the hardships of what we are doing to (those awaiting trial)," he told CTV News. Ruby said the real solution is to ensure a speedy trial. "To do that we have to provide more facilities... more judges, more courts," he said. "(But) Mr. Nicholson is not providing a penny for that."

Does the gov't have any proof that the lawyers are deliberately stalling the process so that their clients can knock a bit of time off their sentence? I would like to see a few statistics before passing judgement.

Of course longer sentences and more convictions will help those private prisons the Conservatives have waiting in the wings. Not only gangs will profit from our prohibitions.

[Wilber]

Exactly. We're turning into a police state. I'm all for legitimate tough on crime measures, but the entire system is in crisis.

Ruby said the holding centres are extremely overcrowded and prisoners are waiting much too long for trial. "The rule was a good rule developed by the courts to alleviate the hardships of what we are doing to (those awaiting trial)," he told CTV News. Ruby said the real solution is to ensure a speedy trial. "To do that we have to provide more facilities... more judges, more courts," he said. "(But) Mr. Nicholson is not providing a penny for that."

Does the gov't have any proof that the lawyers are deliberately stalling the process so that their clients can knock a bit of time off their sentence? I would like to see a few statistics before passing judgement.

Of course longer sentences and more convictions will help those private prisons the Conservatives have waiting in the wings. Not only gangs will profit from our prohibitions.

Even honest judges will tell you they are. The argument given for double credit is that they do not have access to rehabilitation and other programs while in remand. It seems to me that if they are so in need of the rehabilitation and programs the prisons provide, they should be getting more time in them, not less.

[Smallc]

It seems to me that if they are so in need of the rehabilitation and programs the prisons provide, they should be getting more time in them, not less.

My thoughts exactly. The logic behind double time credit makes very little sense....if any.

[Smallc]

Exactly. We're turning into a police state.

The things you quote don't show that at all.

[Shakeyhands]

Even honest judges will tell you they are. The argument given for double credit is that they do not have access to rehabilitation and other programs while in remand. It seems to me that if they are so in need of the rehabilitation and programs the prisons provide, they should be getting more time in them, not less.

There is a huge difference in remand centers like the Metro East & West facilities, or the Don Jail and provincial or federal facilities , it borders on inhumane. Putting 4-6 people in a cell designed for 2 isn't uncommon. There are plenty of differences beyond treatment options. Again, our system is set up for rehabilitation as opposed to strictly punishment.

[Smallc]

Again, our system is set up for rehabilitation as opposed to strictly punishment.

So then how does the fact that they end up spending less time in rehab because of double time credit make sense?

[blueblood]

Of course longer sentences and more convictions will help those private prisons the Conservatives have waiting in the wings. Not only gangs will profit from our prohibitions.

And what's wrong with private prisons?

[Shakeyhands]

And what's wrong with private prisons?

They cost more to run.

[Shakeyhands]

So then how does the fact that they end up spending less time in rehab because of double time credit make sense?

Great point, however, rehab programs don't necessarily have to run hand in hand with custodial sentences.

[noahbody]

They cost more to run.

Citation?

[Wilber]

Great point, however, rehab programs don't necessarily have to run hand in hand with custodial sentences.

What about when they are just given time served in the form of a conditional sentence? There is no rehab in these cases. Why not just sentence everyone to rehab only with no time involved?

[jdobbin]

Citation?

There are some that say that private prisons are more cost effective. However, in one of the most conclusive studies on the subject in the U.S., there as was found to be no little or no difference in cost.

http://www.sentencingproject.org/Admin/Doc...ivatization.pdf

[Muddy]

Locate all prisons for violent offenders on Baffin or Ellesmere Islands! Just make sure we tell all the prisoners that if they escape they will not be pursued by authoritys. Polar bears have to eat too!

[DrGreenthumb]

What about when they are just given time served in the form of a conditional sentence? There is no rehab in these cases. Why not just sentence everyone to rehab only with no time involved?

Actually there is rehab involved in conditional sentences, that is one of the most common "conditions".

I'm not against getting rid of double time credit for pre-trial custody, after all if the person is found guilty of victimizing someone I really don't feel sorry for them, the public's right to safety is more important than a victimizers right to a private or semi-private cell.

The problem is what do we do to compensate someone who for instance spends a year in pre-trial custody and is then found innocent at trial?

We can't give them back the year of their life that we stole, and in that case the state is the victimizer. A person who was punished for a year in prison when they have done nothing wrong would definitely deserve some major compensation for the pain, suffering and damage to their reputation that we have caused them.

Private prisons are about the worst attack on our justice system possible. It is a form of slavery. The prisons "own" the inmates and hire them out as slave labour. They do nothing to rehabilitate people because it is more profitable for them to keep them coming back to jail. The conditions that prisoners are subjected to are appauling, and dangerous. The more a prisoner is mistreated and abused while in custody the more angry and dangerous that offender becomes.

When we intend to fill up our jails with non-violent drug offenders like the americans have done, and then subject them to abuse and hardship during their incarceration we are only going to unleash more havoc and violence on our streets than we have EVER seen before in Canada.

The Conservatives have it wrong on crime, and always have. We need to get get SMART on crime, getting TOUGH without getting smart is a recipe for disaster.

[Progressive Tory]

Even honest judges will tell you they are. The argument given for double credit is that they do not have access to rehabilitation and other programs while in remand. It seems to me that if they are so in need of the rehabilitation and programs the prisons provide, they should be getting more time in them, not less.

If it were only that simple. We can't point to any single thing, but the court system overall. I still haven't been able to find any judge who says that lawyers are deliberately keeping their clients in what has been described as 'hell holes'.

End prohibition, especially on marijuana, and we'd see an immediate impact on that backlog. But can you imagine this gov't seeing that as a good start toward crime reduction; by simply eliminating 'crimes' that shouldn't be crimes in the first place? Far too forward thinking.

I support tough on crime for legitmate crimes. This gov't are making gang members their pimps.

[Progressive Tory]

Private prisons are about the worst attack on our justice system possible. It is a form of slavery. The prisons "own" the inmates and hire them out as slave labour. They do nothing to rehabilitate people because it is more profitable for them to keep them coming back to jail. The conditions that prisoners are subjected to are appauling, and dangerous. The more a prisoner is mistreated and abused while in custody the more angry and dangerous that offender becomes.

When we intend to fill up our jails with non-violent drug offenders like the americans have done, and then subject them to abuse and hardship during their incarceration we are only going to unleash more havoc and violence on our streets than we have EVER seen before in Canada.

The Conservatives have it wrong on crime, and always have. We need to get get SMART on crime, getting TOUGH without getting smart is a recipe for disaster.

Excellent post. It's a numbers game. If they can fill them up it gives the misconception that they are dealing with crime. It's a dangerous game.

[Progressive Tory]

The things you quote don't show that at all.

That's my own personal opinion. I wasn't looking for validation. This gov't gives me that.

Stephen Harper travels with a veritable swat team

PM's security tab hits nearly $30M

They keep ever expanding lists of undesirables at the border. Good thing they weren't around when the Underground Railroad was in operation or Harriet Tubman would have been an 'undesirable'.

They suggest that criticizing Israeli aggression is a 'hate' crime. Sheer nonsense.

I think whenever a Conservative MP leaves the country we should put their name on a list and they have to prove that they are not a threat to our security to get back in. It's starting to look like a fascist state.

[Progressive Tory]

And what's wrong with private prisons?

You mean besides everything?

For starters, their focus is on profit, not rehabilitation. Who will they answer to? Shareholders? We tried one in Ontario and it was a complete and utter failure.

Ontario to take back control of private super-jail

Canada's only privately run jail, in Penetanguishene, Ont., will return to public control on Saturday after a performance evaluation found a public jail of equivalent size had better security, prisoner health care, and reduced repeat offender rates.

[Progressive Tory]

Locate all prisons for violent offenders on Baffin or Ellesmere Islands! Just make sure we tell all the prisoners that if they escape they will not be pursued by authoritys. Polar bears have to eat too!

I am absolutely behind tougher sentences for violet crime. However, the quickest way to reduce the numebr of criminals in Canada is by eliminating some of the ridiculous things that constitute crime. MARIJUANA is a good place to start. Prostitution is another. Legalize, control and tax. It's a no-brainer.

[DrGreenthumb]

I am also in favour of getting tough on violent crime, just not on personal choices like drug use and prostitution. What is the difference if a woman would rather take 100 bucks to sleep with a guy, than sleep with him after he spends 100 bucks on her? As long as she is free to choose wether or not she wants to sleep with him there is no victim. Just like if a person CHOOSES to buy some pot from someone who CHOOSES to sell it to them there is no victim, and therefore no crime.

I think we also need to address what should be done to compensate innocent people who have had to spend time in pre-trial custody for months on end because the courts are backlogged with stupid cannabis possession charges. This problem is only going to increase with the idiotic mandaTORY minimums contained in c-15, that will take away any incentive for people to plead guilty to possession charges. Almost every person charged with possession is also charged with intent to traffic, if they have more than 3 grams of pot on them. Most people who smoke pot buy their weed in 7 or 28 gram bags because the more you buy the cheaper it is. People will probablyu start to buy it even larger quantities so that they have to travel with it on their person and risk getting caught in transport. Our courts will be overwhelmed with ridiculous cannabis charges, because their will be no more incentive to plead guilty in the hopes of recieving a more lenient sentence.