Tazering and Garroting - inept law enforcement

[Oleg Bach]

Miss Smith was in the local jail - the usual small town lock up where they put the out of line hicks - She had a habit of stringing things together and choking herself into near oblivion. I am sure you heard of the case and the mini-inquiry. The young woman was in her cell as per usual and was garroting herself as she ofter did - in vain attempts to commit suicide. This had happened so many times that the jailing authorities were simply tired of doing their work , their paper work.

So they set up a policy among the hickish administrators and the grunt guards - that if she were to strangle herself - not to interfere...so off the poor girl went to her own little death and hell as a group of guards stood and watch - and I am sure to them it was highly entertaining - as she lost consciousness and died right on the spot> The questioin I have - is the paper work less bulky when documenting an inside institution suicide - or is there more paper work for an attempted self murder.

Suicide is self murder and it is illegal - If this woman had been strangling another woman (homicide) would the guards have intervened? Of course they would have - apparently they wanted the woman dead and now she is..Where do they find these people who work as masters of the Tazer - or masters over imprisoned human beings - Do those who apply to work as guards or RCMP first apply at the local GM plant or the chicken killing ranch - and if rejected , fill out an application for a nice government job..Like being a cop or a guard? I am wondering - when will our governement re-instate the high standards and intelligence level that was once needed to serve the people? I guess that our public servants have now dwindled down to choosing the dregs - seeing they are dregs themselves!

[blueblood]

Miss Smith was in the local jail - the usual small town lock up where they put the out of line hicks - She had a habit of stringing things together and choking herself into near oblivion. I am sure you heard of the case and the mini-inquiry. The young woman was in her cell as per usual and was garroting herself as she ofter did - in vain attempts to commit suicide. This had happened so many times that the jailing authorities were simply tired of doing their work , their paper work.

So they set up a policy among the hickish administrators and the grunt guards - that if she were to strangle herself - not to interfere...so off the poor girl went to her own little death and hell as a group of guards stood and watch - and I am sure to them it was highly entertaining - as she lost consciousness and died right on the spot> The questioin I have - is the paper work less bulky when documenting an inside institution suicide - or is there more paper work for an attempted self murder.

Suicide is self murder and it is illegal - If this woman had been strangling another woman (homicide) would the guards have intervened? Of course they would have - apparently they wanted the woman dead and now she is..Where do they find these people who work as masters of the Tazer - or masters over imprisoned human beings - Do those who apply to work as guards or RCMP first apply at the local GM plant or the chicken killing ranch - and if rejected , fill out an application for a nice government job..Like being a cop or a guard? I am wondering - when will our governement re-instate the high standards and intelligence level that was once needed to serve the people? I guess that our public servants have now dwindled down to choosing the dregs - seeing they are dregs themselves!

Being the dead beat that you are, why don't you apply to the RCMP and see if you get hired. They have 2000 job openings according to the radio. It's certainly a step up from welfare.

[Oleg Bach]

Being the dead beat that you are, why don't you apply to the RCMP and see if you get hired. They have 2000 job openings according to the radio. It's certainly a step up from welfare.

You know - I paid my taxes - I did my best - I worked hard for twenty years doing 18 hour days...for sometimes 22 days straight - I raised four children and stuck it out with an inappropriate wife that was harmful to my carreer ---- now I am 58 - I am a good performer - Piano - guitar and vocalist - I still compose..and I generated a collection of paintings over the years that are brilliant by all standards --- also _ I believe in goodness and in GOD... My past is rich - and colourful ----still after 30 years I can call up a long lost friend and talk and he listens and respects me - He just did a 4 billion dollar merger....He respects me and knows I am on welfare - and you do not ---- why is that?

[Oleg Bach]

You know - I paid my taxes - I did my best - I worked hard for twenty years doing 18 hour days...for sometimes 22 days straight - I raised four children and stuck it out with an inappropriate wife that was harmful to my carreer ---- now I am 58 - I am a good performer - Piano - guitar and vocalist - I still compose..and I generated a collection of paintings over the years that are brilliant by all standards --- also _ I believe in goodness and in GOD... My past is rich - and colourful ----still after 30 years I can call up a long lost friend and talk and he listens and respects me - He just did a 4 billion dollar merger....He respects me and knows I am on welfare - and you do not ---- why is that?

Oh and Blueblood...get rid of the title - I am more blue blooded than you will ever dream to be --- as far as purpose and duty - I took a social justice issue to the Supreme Court - it cost me my good health and left me poor --- but I did my DUTY - I sacraficed the last of my youth for a cause that protected the weak and young ...I am not ashamed to say - that I take money from your pocket..you owe me...don't insult me again...It is you that is a dead beat - you assume money is power - have you had a look around lately.

[guyser]

Miss Smith was in the local jail - the usual small town lock up where they put the out of line hicks - She had a habit of stringing things together and choking herself into near oblivion. I am sure you heard of the case and the mini-inquiry.

No, have not heard of it. Do you have a link?

Seems to me, some guards or the correctional system should be signing a large cheque over to her family.

[scorpio]

You know - I paid my taxes - I did my best - I worked hard for twenty years doing 18 hour days...for sometimes 22 days straight - I raised four children and stuck it out with an inappropriate wife that was harmful to my carreer ---- now I am 58 - I am a good performer - Piano - guitar and vocalist - I still compose..and I generated a collection of paintings over the years that are brilliant by all standards --- also _ I believe in goodness and in GOD... My past is rich - and colourful ----still after 30 years I can call up a long lost friend and talk and he listens and respects me - He just did a 4 billion dollar merger....He respects me and knows I am on welfare - and you do not ---- why is that?

Wow, an arTIST and musician. I take back everything I ever thought of you Oleg.

[Oleg Bach]

No, have not heard of it. Do you have a link?

Seems to me, some guards or the correctional system should be signing a large cheque over to her family.

Not skilled with linking - check the papers or TV...or radio on occassion - I'm old school - you know that. It's not likely that the "guards" will be held libel for anything - there was a no hands on policy - nor will those in charge be held to pay any damage to family - There are protective measures in place to guard not the grards but those that oversee the guards and most penal and mental institutions in Canada - good example was of this female student that is an assocaite of my family - she was standing at a bus stop last year and approached from behing and deeply stabbed a number of times in the abdomen - She almost died and is now in therapy - The trail of the accused is over - she inquired about compensation - The attempted murder fellow had been released from a mental health facility prior to the incident - He was in the looney bin - for doing exactly the same thing a few years back - yet they release him --- there is supposedly a law that states you can not suit the state (mental health institutions)...so much for your suggestion.

[blueblood]

He respects me and knows I am on welfare - and you do not ---- why is that?

Any rational person knows that RCMP members are not inept buffoons. For somebody in your position who is leaching off of society, and doesn't have the mental ability and dignity to go find a job to go and trash the RCMP's standards by saying any idiot can get in, that gets you a response you might not like.

If you think you can do better than they can, put your money where your mouth is.

I am not ashamed to say - that I take money from your pocket..you owe me...don't insult me again...It is you that is a dead beat - you assume money is power - have you had a look around lately.

What do I owe you for? Anyone who takes money from my pocket to laze it up all day is fair game.

I'm looking around, and I am happy that I unloaded all of my grain in the summer time, and am happier that half of it is going to be used for fuel. Being called a deadbeat from someone who raids taxpayers to laze it up, and who's obviously a few lights shy of a christmas tree, honestly brightens my day.

[Oleg Bach]

Any rational person knows that RCMP members are not inept buffoons. For somebody in your position who is leaching off of society, and doesn't have the mental ability and dignity to go find a job to go and trash the RCMP's standards by saying any idiot can get in, that gets you a response you might not like.

If you think you can do better than they can, put your money where your mouth is.

What do I owe you for? Anyone who takes money from my pocket to laze it up all day is fair game.

I'm looking around, and I am happy that I unloaded all of my grain in the summer time, and am happier that half of it is going to be used for fuel. Being called a deadbeat from someone who raids taxpayers to laze it up, and who's obviously a few lights shy of a christmas tree, honestly brightens my day.

I never wanted it like this. I did not believe in abortion - I was playing a club - and the bar tender intentionally made her self pregnant - I had three more children with her - no courtship - nothing - This person came from a long line of cops and she as her father were totally unethical - they abused my goodness and made certain that there were constant up heavels..I stuck it out and then the woman simply found someone else to abuse.

Cops are okay - and I may have been off on a bitter tangent here --- There is one former RCMP cop on my street and we are friends...he's bright and kind and cares about my family - and he is protective of me.. As for my finacial situation.._ sure I could step out and do what has to be done...but I still have a dream - and my level of skill is in the musical areas - and I am upgrading that skill - not that there money in it but it does bring status and perhaps a new wife...

Thirdly - by chance a car blocked me as I was walking to my daughters loft in the film district - a woman stuck her head out the window and asked me if I was going to the audition...I assumed she was an actor - so I started giving her some pointers - she said NO - I am the casting director and I thought you were auditioning - because you are exactly what we are looking for --- I said I was not in the buisness..anymore and I proudly turned and walked away.....Talk about a lost opportunity - it was knocking at my door and I rejected it..That opportunity would have meant going back to work - and loving it - but I have gotten lazy - and I am feeling sorry for myself....but tomorrow - the muscians will jam - and I have an idea - rather than preform - I should bring opportunity to the talented ones - and promote and produce...I have to do something - I am not dead yet..

Why would I drag my sorry ass of to a ware house and use up the rest of my old bones to labour and die --- I will hold on - and I will fulfill my dreams ---- call me stubborn.

[Oleg Bach]

GETTING BACK to the point regarding the quailtiy of cops. Giving it a little thought - it also relates to the quailty and effectiveness of judges also. What I see having taken place is bureacratic political correctnes - that good sound human JUDGEMENT - has been replaced by policy. Individuals who are of sound judgement are not permitted to make a judgement - instead they must adhere to a policy - even if they know in their heart of hearts that it is wrong..the stand stupified like robots and go through the motions - so the problem with law enforcement and the judicary is the trickle down effect of poor policy send down by government...which means I should have been focusing on our politicians and law makers rather than their enforcers....The politicals are dumbfounded..not police. How so many stupid people managed to climb so high in rank is actually quite bizarre and distressing.

[eyeball]

No, have not heard of it. Do you have a link?

Seems to me, some guards or the correctional system should be signing a large cheque over to her family.

OTTAWA — The family of Ashley Smith, who choked to death in prison at 19 while guards watched, are calling on the government to name the names of Corrections officials who broke the law in the teenage girl's case.

Link

Our problems run far deeper than just inept law enforcement. We live in an inept state.

[Oleg Bach]

Our problems run far deeper than just inept law enforcement. We live in an inept state.

Diligent you - you nailed it ------------smart and good people don't run for office ...why -? Going to the link now.

[eyeball]

Diligent you - you nailed it ------------smart and good people don't run for office ...why -? Going to the link now.

Oleg... this is about the saddest example of how fucked up our country and too many people in it are when it comes to mental illness.

“As a family, we feel that Ashley died because no one in Canada really cared. No one cared,” Ashley Smith's mother, Coralee Smith, said at a news conference this morning.

Tears are running down my face right now.

[Oleg Bach]

Stunning - this is the first report I have read - It reminds me of the Marlene Moore - the young woman that was dubbed "The most dangerous woman in Canada" - she died chained like a dog to the floor. I knew here brother and family - my sister went to school with this poor woman .. We were part of this semi-rural community and ran the local store and resturant..From what I gathered - she was sexually abused by a brutish father - there were 16 kids in the family - It was grinding poverty - and not once was the poverty issue addressed or the sexual abuse and beatings done by a man (father) that was in the ring as a boxer with a world heavey weight.

How the sytem seems to have always worked and the same goes for hospitals as well - if you do not have an advocate or the authorities and guards assume that you are unprotected because you are from the lower economic stratus - you have no protection and are worthless and open for abuse...This is the mentally of some guards and administrators - same as police - it's human nature - If you carry yourself in a sad manner on the street - say with low self esteem - police gravitate towards you - if you have dingity..to do not bother you - this was a judgement call on behalf of guards and prison officals - that this young woman was worthless and here death would be but an amusement.

[guyser]

Our problems run far deeper than just inept law enforcement. We live in an inept state.

Pretty bloody sad.

The guards are all coached for suicide cases, they have suicide cells w 24 hr cameras and are supposed to check them every minute or so.

That these guards, useless, pathetic fathead union boys that they are, refused to do the job they are paid for should mean they are held accountable.

Although a pipe dream, I say we give them a two day jail term. No more..just two days.

Of course they must serve in gen'l population , and all other prison guards are ordered to turn off monitors and leave the compounds.

And when their families come for their husbands bodies, we can say...sorry.

[eyeball]

That these guards, useless, pathetic fathead union boys that they are, refused to do the job they are paid for should mean they are held accountable.

What about their managers who gave them their orders or the policy makers who gave the managers theirs. What about the people who gave the policy makers their mandate? When are we finally going to be held accountable?

When its too late I think. Pretty bloody sad indeed.

Edited March 5, 2009 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

....What about the people who gave the policy makers their mandate? When are we finally going to be held accountable?

When you shell out another $10 million CAD plus legal expenses.

[Argus]

Pretty bloody sad.

The guards are all coached for suicide cases, they have suicide cells w 24 hr cameras and are supposed to check them every minute or so.

That these guards, useless, pathetic fathead union boys that they are, refused to do the job they are paid for should mean they are held accountable..

What in the hell are you talking about? The problem here wasn't the guards, it was the administration. They even brought in a specialist to teach them when they could and could not intervene, and made it abundantly clear that if anyone intervened while she was still breathing they would face sever discipline.

Why?

The human factor meets the bureacratic factor.

Apparently, in order to have better "oversight" on interactions between guards and prisoners (corrections does not trust its guards at all), every time a guard has to "intervene" in any way, especially any forceful way, reems of paperwork has to be churned out so that platoons of administrators and managers can make sure everything was done exactly according to code. This nut job kept trying to strangle herself, time after time after time. One might wonder why they didn't just make sure there was nothing available in her cell to strangle herself with - or why she wasn't in a straight jacket (a violation of her rights, no doubt) - or why she wasn't in a psychiatric hospital, but evidently, senior managers decided she was a pain in the ass with all the "interventions" which were required, and the massive flood of paperwork, and possibly that she was faking it, and so they said no one was to go in unless she actually stopped breathing. One presumes they figured at that point, instant intervention would quickly allow her to breath again without undue damage, but evidently they were wrong.

[Argus]

What about their managers who gave them their orders or the policy makers who gave the managers theirs. What about the people who gave the policy makers their mandate? When are we finally going to be held accountable?

When its too late I think. Pretty bloody sad indeed.

I'm all in favour of building more psychiatric facilities and providing better management and care to those with psychiatric disorder. But then again I'm all in favour of making sure everyone has whatever level of health care they need without waiting - regardless of cost.

I detest waste. I detest spending on things which aren't needed. However, I have never considered health care or psychiatric care to be useless luxuries.

[Oleg Bach]

I'm all in favour of building more psychiatric facilities and providing better management and care to those with psychiatric disorder. But then again I'm all in favour of making sure everyone has whatever level of health care they need without waiting - regardless of cost.

I detest waste. I detest spending on things which aren't needed. However, I have never considered health care or psychiatric care to be useless luxuries.

Whether it is an orgainic damage - chemically induced - or good old fashioned perlonged stress and snapage - just about everybody will have some sort of mental disorder during their lives. With some it will pass naturally - with some who are young they will simply out grow the condition as the body and brain change and develope...but it is an invironmental illness - the human environ is getting worse as the population increases and as we are pressured more finacially and socially.

Putting that aside - to go back to the good old days when people who were simply odd were institutionalized against their will and damaged by well meaning and overly curious practitioners is probably not an option. First we have to realize that this young girl may not have been clinically mentally ill - there may have been other issues - just to assme that she was nuts - as the jail guards did - and this does show that if they believed that she was crazy - they also stand by the antiquated ideals that mental illness is not a disease by a possesson of evil...There should be real and proper care provide --

-- Once when a family member was having some problems - I spoke to a Peruvian psychiatrist..and asked about the young girls depression...she gave me her grass roots evaluation - THE GIRL HAS LOST HOPE.....modernist shrinks would have labled and drugged and confined such a case - but it was simple - some break - when hope is gone - perhaps we should attempt to instill hope in everyone we see --- if not we could break down and be hopeless in time.

[eyeball]

I have never considered health care or psychiatric care to be useless luxuries.

I've come to consider them as being canaries - indicators of our society's humaneness and capacity for compassion.

We're badly lacking in both it appears. I don't know if these are something we've lost or whether we ever had them and it really doesn't even matter any more, all I know is that we need them and I don't care how much they cost either, they're not luxuries.

[Oleg Bach]

I've come to consider them as being canaries - indicators of our society's humaneness and capacity for compassion.

We're badly lacking in both it appears. I don't know if these are something we've lost or whether we ever had them and it really doesn't even matter any more, all I know is that we need them and I don't care how much they cost either, they're not luxuries.

I agree - there is little compassion is some areas - my neighbourhood seems to have a bit - but you have to spread it like a good virus.

Look at our health care system - where emergency wards are full late at night - I would say half the people that come - arrive out of lonelyness - they want to be touched and cared for - to be talked to ---It's unbelievable --- much like you who will go for a hair cut when you don't need it just for the human female contact..

[guyser]

What in the hell are you talking about? The problem here wasn't the guards, it was the administration. They even brought in a specialist to teach them when they could and could not intervene, and made it abundantly clear that if anyone intervened while she was still breathing they would face sever discipline.

I am talking about guards who failed to do their jobs . They had a job to do, and that si to monitor Ashley Smith 24-7. Every 15 mins she is to be checked.A guard is posted outside her door to check on her.

They failed (guards) at every chance they had.

Howard Sapers, Federal Corrections Investigator, testimony states....

"Sapers maintains their duty to preserve life dictated staff should have responded promptly - and been directed to by their managers - in every instance"

..and this...

""In sum, there's some 25 to 30 minutes perhaps between when a ligature is first noted and when any kind of medical response or first aid response is provided," said Sapers."

So, I will stick with my assertion that these fatheads screwed up and bad.

That the three guards were charged with criminal negligence causing death is welcome, they have been subsequently let off from that or the charges were withdrawn.

And thats sad.

[Oleg Bach]

Some guards are mean. The proceedure even for a night in the town slammer is that belts and shoe laces are to be removed - noted and stored..cameras are to be closely watched to ensure all is well - and in the flesh viewings are to be done intermittently - You are not a prisoner as most percieve - you at the moment that door slams shut are a ward of the crown - you are supposed to be under her majestys' supervision and kind care.. I saw a cop that was spite full allow a prisoner his shoe laces...he knew the drill...that prisoner was me..

I faked a heart attack to get out of the drunk tank when I was a teenager...when I got back from the hospital the officer...allowed me back into the steel box with belt and shoe laces - I took them off and handed them to him --- he smiled...I could have sworn this idiot was hoping for some excietment in the late hours like a suicide---some cops are nut.. as for the case of this young woman - they stood by and watched her kill herself - if this was ancient time in Britian and the Queen got wind of one of her crown wards being indirectly murdered like this - heads would roll.

[Oleg Bach]

Some guards are mean. The proceedure even for a night in the town slammer is that belts and shoe laces are to be removed - noted and stored..cameras are to be closely watched to ensure all is well - and in the flesh viewings are to be done intermittently - You are not a prisoner as most percieve - you at the moment that door slams shut are a ward of the crown - you are supposed to be under her majestys' supervision and kind care.. I saw a cop that was spite full allow a prisoner his shoe laces...he knew the drill...that prisoner was me..

I faked a heart attack to get out of the drunk tank when I was a teenager...when I got back from the hospital the officer...allowed me back into the steel box with belt and shoe laces - I took them off and handed them to him --- he smiled...I could have sworn this idiot was hoping for some excietment in the late hours like a suicide---some cops are nut.. as for the case of this young woman - they stood by and watched her kill herself - if this was ancient time in Britian and the Queen got wind of one of her crown wards being indirectly murdered like this - heads would roll.

It is a breach of the crimminal code to stand by and watch one person murder another and to stand by and not intervene...suicide is MURDER - literally self murder ...and these guards should be charged for allowing a murder to take place...If the young woman was "not herself" then that other self killed her - They should have stopped the killer - they were in power and control to do so - but they failed to do their duty.