Online voting increases voter turnout minimum 30%

[CAMP]

I have been consulting with a Canadian firm called intellivote systems Inc. about the possibility of having online voting for a federal or other election. They apparently already have set up municipal elections down east with great success! The voter turn out was a minimum 30% higher than normal. When I chatted with their representative Dean (You can find them on the web and phone this guy yourself if your so inclined) he explained that it would be even easier to do federally because in a municipal election there is more than one candidate that needs to be chosen. He also explained it is secure and safe. Online voting via internet and phone voting is what they specialize in setting up. They are also in consultation with some provinces for provicial elections.

I believe this would be an improvement for sure for Canada and our federal elections, if electronic voting was put in place.

This along with proportional representation would create a much more democratic environment in Canada, which we sadly need.

There is a party that is forming now for independents to simplify their efforts in getting their name on the ballot.

Check out www.canadian-alternative.com[url/]

[Riverwind]

I believe this would be an improvement for sure for Canada and our federal elections, if electronic voting was put in place.

If people are too lazy to get off their butt and go to a polling station then they should not be voting.

This along with proportional representation would create a much more democratic environment in Canada, which we sadly need.

Says who? Small parties with platforms that appeal to a small number of voters?

[punked]

WOW a firm who works with and makes it money off on online voting told it is good? Surprise.

Did they tell you my friend voted in our city election but lives on the otherside of the country and is registered to vote out there cause they sent a an online voting number to her house?

[CAMP]

If people are too lazy to get off their butt and go to a polling station then they should not be voting.

Says who? Small parties with platforms that appeal to a small number of voters?

It has nothing to do with being lazy. There are many people who are not in their riding for voting day. Some are away at university etc. Some are down south... ie our snow birds.

Many people are so busy they don't have time to appease an antiquated method of voting.

Get past your short sightedess and get with the times.. jeez.

As far as small parties.. remember every party starts small... but this party is not really a party per say. It's a platform for Independents to organize and make life easy for them. Independents are the way of the future, there is no doubt.

By the way a plane needs more than a left wing and a right wing to fly, just ask a pilot...lol!

[CAMP]

WOW a firm who works with and makes it money off on online voting told it is good? Surprise.

Did they tell you my friend voted in our city election but lives on the otherside of the country and is registered to vote out there cause they sent a an online voting number to her house?

I actually asked if there were any problems and he did say that a very small percentage of people were given wrong information but it was in the order of .001% No doubt there are always going to be glitches in any system... even the regular walk in system has flaws.

Funny how everyone tries to find the bad in everything... never the good. Sad really.

[Wild Bill]

It has nothing to do with being lazy. There are many people who are not in their riding for voting day. Some are away at university etc. Some are down south... ie our snow birds.

Many people are so busy they don't have time to appease an antiquated method of voting.

Get past your short sightedess and get with the times.. jeez.

As far as small parties.. remember every party starts small... but this party is not really a party per say. It's a platform for Independents to organize and make life easy for them. Independents are the way of the future, there is no doubt.

By the way a plane needs more than a left wing and a right wing to fly, just ask a pilot...lol!

I can see it now. There's a home with a domineering man, his wife and perhaps a couple of sons and daughters. They are all of voting age and on the scrutineer's list.

The domineering man intimidates the rest of his family and casts the vote for ALL of them! There's no secret ballot in HIS house!

No polling station. No polling booth. No secret ballot.

No choice!

And how would we ever know it was happening?

A vote that is made too easy tends to become thoughtless. No one seems concerned with the QUALITY of a vote cast!

[punked]

I actually asked if there were any problems and he did say that a very small percentage of people were given wrong information but it was in the order of .001% No doubt there are always going to be glitches in any system... even the regular walk in system has flaws.

Funny how everyone tries to find the bad in everything... never the good. Sad really.

I am in Halifax I know for a fact many people live in Hali and no longer have the right to vote due to our voting laws voted.

[Riverwind]

It has nothing to do with being lazy. There are many people who are not in their riding for voting day. Some are away at university etc. Some are down south... ie our snow birds.

So? That is what mail in ballots and advance polls are for.

Many people are so busy they don't have time to appease an antiquated method of voting.

If they are too busy to go to a polling station then they are too busy to learn enough about the issues to make an informed choice.

Get past your short sightedess and get with the times.. jeez.

I suggest you wake up and realize that voting is a right *and* a priviledge. It is reasonable to expect people to demonstrate that they care enough about it to get to a polling station before accepting their vote. Edited January 20, 2009 by Riverwind

[CAMP]

I can see it now. There's a home with a domineering man, his wife and perhaps a couple of sons and daughters. They are all of voting age and on the scrutineer's list.

The domineering man intimidates the rest of his family and casts the vote for ALL of them! There's no secret ballot in HIS house!

No polling station. No polling booth. No secret ballot.

No choice!

And how would we ever know it was happening?

A vote that is made too easy tends to become thoughtless. No one seems concerned with the QUALITY of a vote cast!

Wow you have an active imagination. But I guess that could happen. I doubt an 18 year old is going to put up with a father like that for too long. Besides... online voting could be done by an 18 year old privately away from home... father is none the wiser... if he asks... I guess sonny boy would say... already done dearest father....lol.... ways around everything isn't there.

Now if you want to talk about thoughtless votes... try explaining why many people just don't bother to vote anymore, because they are fed up with the system as it is. The Quality of a vote... now there's a new one. Every vote has merit quality is your mindset... I'm sure if your a Liberal then you feel a Conservative vote is poor quality or visa versa.... no relevance... sorry .... now try and make a quality post next time.

[Riverwind]

I can see it now. There's a home with a domineering man, his wife and perhaps a couple of sons and daughters. They are all of voting age and on the scrutineer's list.

Or maybe a roommate who takes your voting card info and secretly votes for you before you can. How would you protest when the only evidence you would have is that you have already voted? How could the frauduant vote be reversed unless a computer somewhere associated a particular vote with your voter id?

[CAMP]

Or maybe a roommate who takes your voting card info and secretly votes for you before you can. How would you protest when the only evidence you would have is that you have already voted? How could the frauduant vote be reversed unless a computer somewhere associated a particular vote with your voter id?

And how many roomates are stealing cards wow.. I guess your roomate could also steal your pin number for your bank account and steal your money too. There is a pin number for online voting and you must answer a private question before you can register your vote... so there are checks in place to create security. Like I said in an earlier post, there will always be criminals out there to try and circumvent everything. Look at the up side. I'd much rather see a 30% increase in voter turnout compared to a very small number of students who stole your pin number and some how found out your private question. Pretty far fetched to think that one student is going to cause a difference.

[CAMP]

So? That is what mail in ballots and advance polls are for.

If they are too busy to go to a polling station then they are too busy to learn enough about the issues to make an informed choice.

I suggest you wake up and realize that voting is a right *and* a priviledge. It is reasonable to expect people to demonstrate that they care enough about it to get to a polling station before accepting their vote.

This is mind boggling as to how you can sit there and say such things... I have been in contact with a student who goes to university in California. She couldn't vote last election. She would love to have online voting to be able to.

So you want people to fill out forms and stuff envelopes all in the name of having to go to a polling booth... buddy I own 3 dogs walk them everyday.,.. I work my living *** off 12 hours a day because I'm self employed and you can sit there behind your little computer and bitch about everybody being lazy... you get your head out of the sand. I know plenty about political issues.. and always vote.. but I would love to be able to vote online so I don't have to take that trip to the mundane polling station.

[Riverwind]

There is a pin number for online voting and you must answer a private question before you can register your vote... so there are checks in place to create security.

Private question that comes from where? Tax records? Choosen the first time you sign up? What if you forget? What mechanisms would stop someone from changing the answer by claiming they were you but forgot.

Like I said in an earlier post, there will always be criminals out there to try and circumvent everything.

Creating a system that allows them to cheat more effectively is not necessarily a good thing.

Look at the up side. I'd much rather see a 30% increase in voter turnout compared to a very small number of students who stole your pin number and some how found out your private question. Pretty far fetched to think that one student is going to cause a difference.

And as I said, if people are too lazy to vote using the current mechanisms then they should not be voting (BTW laziness is the *only* reason for not voting - being too busy just an excuse used to cover up laziness). Edited January 20, 2009 by Riverwind

[CAMP]

I am in Halifax I know for a fact many people live in Hali and no longer have the right to vote due to our voting laws voted.

Ok you have perked my interest on this post... please explain further

[CAMP]

Private question that comes from where? Tax records? Choosen the first time you sign up? What if you forget? What mechanisms would stop someone from changing the answer by claiming they were you but forgot.

It's private...you'll never know....lol

Creating a system that allows them to cheat more effectively is not necessarily a good thing.

Wow.. do you not realize people do their banking online... and that's secure as the old way... remember anyone can forge a cheque.

The system is designed to increase voter turn out plain and simple. There will always be a small percentage of people who are criminal in nature... perhaps you...lol seeing as this worries you so much. But you'll never get my vote...lol

And as I said, if people are too lazy to vote using the current mechanisms then they should not be voting (BTW laziness is the *only* reason for not voting - being too busy just an excuse used to cover up laziness).

Nope totally disagree... I know for a fact I'm not lazy.. just smart... would rather not waste my gas running to a polling station when I can do it at home in seconds and be done with it... convience... the true answer... go ahead waste your gas.. hope it's raining or better yet -50 when you have to go next time... cheers

[punked]

Ok you have perked my interest on this post... please explain further

I count at least 10 friends who live out of province, are registered voters else where and have no plans returning to NS. Our friend however was helping out on one of the campaigns so these students get a pin number that goes to their family homes. They would be allowed to vote under our election law if they planned to return to the city however they do not. They did get to vote outside the city anyway and they did cause our friend worked on a campaign. That isn't right you don't live in the city and you Plan on not returning to it for the next 5 years you should not get a vote. On the flip side students who live in the city do not get to vote unless the are married to a resident. So it was just stupid. You should have to walk to that voting booth yourself or go through the trouble of filing for a mail in ballot.

[Riverwind]

Nope totally disagree... I know for a fact I'm not lazy.. just smart... would rather not waste my gas running to a polling station when I can do it at home in seconds and be done with it... convience... the true answer... go ahead waste your gas.. hope it's raining or better yet -50 when you have to go next time... cheers

I have not been in a situation when the polling station was not a short walk away from my place. Weather is weather - if I have to go to work in it I can go to a polling station.

You are just making exuses. Voting is not a service provided by a business - it is right and duty of citizenship and a fundemental feature of our society. If anyone refuses to vote unless it is convenient then then should not be voting,

[August1991]

I have to agree with Riverwind on this.

Camp seems to be under the illusion that if more people vote (ie. if we had higher turnouts), somehow government decisions would be better. This logic baffles me.

For starters, making it easier for people to vote doesn't necessarily mean that people will be more interested in the political process.

----

Camp, please understand that if you can't defend your ideas here, you'll get no where with them in the broader world. I can understand however why some private company might want to lobby in favour of this scheme.

[Yorkness]

I dont believe online security technology is sufficiently developed to handle such a personal action as is voting. Also, would the establishment of online voting have a cost disadvantage? Federal funding would be needed to develop such programs as the private market for such technology is'nt very developed or diverse. A contract with a specific company would have to negotiated and ultimately payed. This company would have empolyee salaries to pay making the contract more costly than say that with the volunteers to any given polling station. This is not something we should be looking at at the moment because of the unnecessary financial risk in especially hard economic times and the lack of reliable security technology.

Also, I believe that voting should be a very personal experience and that the physical act of it best eximplifies it personally. I think that the added convenience of online voting would add a certain spontaneity which would make the act of voting less an act of commitment to a certain politcal belief and more an act of preverbal act of publicity. I think most people who vote are the more serious ones in terms of political involvment and want to make that effort to vote. To most people who are'nt that serious the simple physicality involved in the act of voting is their deterrent which in most cases is quite welcome in terms of the philosophy of the vote.

In a more national perspective I doubt online voting would increase voter turnout by 30%. So the isolated cases mentioned are hardly relevant. Also, even if it could raise voter turnout to such a level would that vote not be tainted by the higher uneducated vote for those who have voted out of convenience? Would such questionable, partisan systems of voting such as "strategic" voting be more widely promoted and used? Also, some legitimate security concerns have been pointed out. The very physical act of potentially traditional voting promotes very high personal security. Only you and yourself can vote. With online voting a medium of communication would have to be opened between the voter and his voting username/password. This communication could be easily manipulated. A person's permanent address is hardly reliable. Also, if there are several people in a given household what is there to stop one member of it voting for everybody? Much must be discussed before we go into the promotion of online voting.

[August1991]

I dont believe online security technology is sufficiently developed to handle such a personal action as is voting. Also, would the establishment of online voting have a cost disadvantage? Federal funding would be needed to develop such programs as the private market for such technology is'nt very developed or diverse. A contract with a specific company would have to negotiated and ultimately payed. This company would have empolyee salaries to pay making the contract more costly than say that with the volunteers to any given polling station. This is not something we should be looking at at the moment because of the unnecessary financial risk in especially hard economic times and the lack of reliable security technology.

Also, I believe that voting should be a very personal experience and that the physical act of it best eximplifies it personally. I think that the added convenience of online voting would add a certain spontaneity which would make the act of voting less an act of commitment to a certain politcal belief and more an act of preverbal act of publicity. I think most people who vote are the more serious ones in terms of political involvment and want to make that effort to vote. To most people who are'nt that serious the simple physicality involved in the act of voting is their deterrent which in most cases is quite welcome in terms of the philosophy of the vote.

In a more national perspective I doubt online voting would increase voter turnout by 30%. So the isolated cases mentioned are hardly relevant. Also, even if it could raise voter turnout to such a level would that vote not be tainted by the higher uneducated vote for those who have voted out of convenience? Would such questionable, partisan systems of voting such as "strategic" voting be more widely promoted and used? Also, some legitimate security concerns have been pointed out. The very physical act of potentially traditional voting promotes very high personal security. Only you and yourself can vote. With online voting a medium of communication would have to be opened between the voter and his voting username/password. This communication could be easily manipulated. A person's permanent address is hardly reliable. Also, if there are several people in a given household what is there to stop one member of it voting for everybody? Much must be discussed before we go into the promotion of online voting.

That's a thoughtful post, Yorkness.

It's true that there is something important when I get my ballot from people at the table and then go behind those cardboard walls we use in Canada and mark it. The ballot is mine and it's secret. (I have always felt uncomfortable with the printed number on a ballot. I would prefer unnumbered ballots to ensure the appearance of secrecy.)

-----

I have been a scrutineer in Canada and I have been to polling offices in different countries to see how it's done elsewhere. While Canada's system could be improved, I admire its simplicity and solemness.

[M.Dancer]

It has nothing to do with being lazy. There are many people who are not in their riding for voting day. Some are away at university etc. Some are down south... ie our snow birds.

Many people are so busy they don't have time to appease an antiquated method of voting.

Get past your short sightedess and get with the times.. jeez.

People too stupid to use advance polls shouldn't be allowed to vote...

[M.Dancer]

I can see it now. There's a home with a domineering man, his wife and perhaps a couple of sons and daughters. They are all of voting age and on the scrutineer's list.

The domineering man intimidates the rest of his family and casts the vote for ALL of them! There's no secret ballot in HIS house!

No polling station. No polling booth. No secret ballot.

No choice!

And how would we ever know it was happening?

A vote that is made too easy tends to become thoughtless. No one seems concerned with the QUALITY of a vote cast!

Very good point...maybe someone could move this spammish thread to an Egyptian or Syrian forum where it will get more traction.

[Molly]

The real beauty of the paper ballot is that it can't be messed with in any meaningful way. Even if someone tries, there are those pesky slips of paper that can be reviewed, and reviewed and reviewed. There is simply no more secure way to do it.

Anyone here ever have a login problem, or a power outage, a crash, a virus, or info stolen, or lost to someone elses keystroke? Happens every day.

The US uses quite a bit of electronic voting, and has had consequent questions about the validity of votes. The 'machine voting' used in some local municpalities has also been fraught with security/accuracy problems.

Sorry, but the technology has a long, long, long way to go to be up to snuff, even under 'show up to vote with our protected machines' terms. It's

i miles

away from having stay-at-home voting up to viable option status.

[CANADIEN]

The ONLY advantage of electronic voting (and even that could be solbed through other means) would be to allow people who are away from their riding for an exetended period of time or who are physically unable to go to a pollinh station the possibility to vote.

As for those who won't make the effort to walk (or drive) a few blocks and take 30 to 45 minutes top to vote, they should be watching international news once an while. They'll see people line up for hours to vote, they'll see people willing to risk physical assault and death to vote. That's how important voting is to people who know what it is to live without the right to vote freely. If after that they still can endure the gross inconvenience of actually going to vote, then as a society we can live without their vote.

[CAMP]

I count at least 10 friends who live out of province, are registered voters else where and have no plans returning to NS. Our friend however was helping out on one of the campaigns so these students get a pin number that goes to their family homes. They would be allowed to vote under our election law if they planned to return to the city however they do not. They did get to vote outside the city anyway and they did cause our friend worked on a campaign. That isn't right you don't live in the city and you Plan on not returning to it for the next 5 years you should not get a vote. On the flip side students who live in the city do not get to vote unless the are married to a resident. So it was just stupid. You should have to walk to that voting booth yourself or go through the trouble of filing for a mail in ballot.

Thank you for explaining what happened. As I figured it was people (mainly studends by the sounds of it) who have moved due to school or whatever. Of course they would get a pin number forwarded to them by mail because their mail is probably getting sent by their parents or they have it diverted at the post office. People who have moved in or out of an area create small issues for a municipal election, because of the limitations and requirements of voting for just a small geographic area. Now just remember the big picture.. a 30% increase in voter turn out. Just imagine if the rest of the eligible voters could have been able to vote!

The other point of focus here is that for a federal election, you would be able to vote no matter where you moved to as long as your a Canadian citizen, so people who move for various reasons would still most likely be able to vote as long as they have their mail forwarded properly.