krazy kanuck Posted January 12, 2009 Report Posted January 12, 2009 The Bernie Madoff scandal has uncovered the amazing embezelment or outright theft of $50,000,000,000.00 dollars and yet as I write this he is walking around free, albiet under house arrest in his comfortable apartment building in New York. He has financially ruined a lot of people, and yet he is free. If a mugger holds just one person up he is destined for a jail cell. Is this fair????? Quote Sick lungs don't show.
kimmy Posted January 12, 2009 Report Posted January 12, 2009 The Bernie Madoff scandal has uncovered the amazing embezelment or outright theft of $50,000,000,000.00 dollars and yet as I write this he is walking around free, albiet under house arrest in his comfortable apartment building in New York. He has financially ruined a lot of people, and yet he is free. Perhaps that is because he has not yet been convicted. Perhaps you should get back to us if he's still free after his conviction. If a mugger holds just one person up he is destined for a jail cell.Is this fair????? I think you'll find that muggers, likewise, don't wind up in jail until after the part where they're convicted. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
krazy kanuck Posted January 13, 2009 Author Report Posted January 13, 2009 I was thinking he should be in jail for his own protection. So many people were robbed by this guy some one could spend another couple of hundred bucks and get him wasted. I see the judge placed additional restrictions on him yesterday. I also agree with what you say about being innocent until proven guilty. Try telling that to any victim. Quote Sick lungs don't show.
krazy kanuck Posted January 16, 2009 Author Report Posted January 16, 2009 There are lots of examples of unjust behavior of corporations and how they operate. Exxon Valdez tragic oil spill happened years ago and fair compensation for victims is still before the courts. The TVA and the recent toxic spill. Dow chemical and Bophal, India deaths. Syncrude and toxic oil tar sands pollution, the Love canal scandal, are just a few that come to mind. My question is~~~Will justice ever be served while big business is in bed with the politicians???? Quote Sick lungs don't show.
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 16, 2009 Report Posted January 16, 2009 My question is~~~Will justice ever be served while big business is in bed with the politicians???? Justice is make believe to start with....all they are arguing over is the price tag. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Huston Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 The Bernie Madoff scandal has uncovered the amazing embezelment or outright theft of $50,000,000,000.00 dollars and yet as I write this he is walking around free, albiet under house arrest in his comfortable apartment building in New York. He has financially ruined a lot of people, and yet he is free.If a mugger holds just one person up he is destined for a jail cell. Is this fair????? Well, the state has pulled the ponzi scheme on every single tax payer. So obviously justice will not come from the courts. Quote
Huston Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 Perhaps that is because he has not yet been convicted. Perhaps you should get back to us if he's still free after his conviction.I think you'll find that muggers, likewise, don't wind up in jail until after the part where they're convicted. -k His sentence will still not be that much. life in prison, whoopdido, a lot of investors will still be shafted. Justice, I thought was to pay the victims back, but his jailing will cost those investors, along with everyone else more money for his jailing. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 Every once in a while there will be a fall guy like Conrad Black who will like the proverbial scape goat absorb all the sins and go off and do the easy time in a nice jail. This is supposedly to restore public confidence but usually the conviction of white collar crimminals is done out of spite and corporate feuding. In other words white collar types will turn on their own if offended. Frankly the reason most crimes of this type are not fully punished is because most judges are friends of the high archy. So as the old book says - don't expect Satan to cast out Satan. As for the concept of justice - there is none...why would those that establish empires over a few generations turn on their own. This is international in scope - the idea for instance of Saudi Arabia being a funder of terrorism - and nothing being done about it shows that all of the top dogs are inter-connected - such is life in the big city. Quote
DrGreenthumb Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 The Bernie Madoff scandal has uncovered the amazing embezelment or outright theft of $50,000,000,000.00 dollars and yet as I write this he is walking around free, albiet under house arrest in his comfortable apartment building in New York. He has financially ruined a lot of people, and yet he is free.If a mugger holds just one person up he is destined for a jail cell. Is this fair????? Harper wants madatory prison sentences for people growing even 1 cannabis plant for their own personal use. The grower has not "mugged" anyone or hurt any at all, not taken a penny from anyone. Why do these government goons think stopping people from growing the plants they enjoy, is more of a priority than doing something about people who are stealing cars, or conning people out of their hard earned money? Decriminalize things that are not really criminal and our police would have plenty of time on their hands to solve REAL crimes. A pleasant side effect would be that the public would feel a lot more trusting of the police force, and would make police investigations into those ACTUAL crimes a whole lot easier. Quote
noahbody Posted January 17, 2009 Report Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) Harper wants madatory prison sentences for people growing even 1 cannabis plant for their own personal use. Where did you get this from? A pot propaganda site? Bill C-26 reads: (i) imprisonment for a term of six months if the number of plants produced is less than 201 and the production is for the purpose of trafficking http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/P...e=1&File=33 Edited January 17, 2009 by noahbody Quote
johnp3 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Posted February 10, 2009 I am new hear, I was reading a news article on the "US Peanut Corporation" there was a lot of blogs going on after the article and one said it was Jimmy Carters Fault. So I Googled "US peanut Corporation Shareholders`ans about the fourth article down was a newspaper report on the company and there share holders. The head office is in Lynchburg Va. and the article said the main shareholders where the `Falwell's`` the Falwell spokes person said it is not against the law to ship tainted products, even though the there tests showed the contamination in Jan 2007. This truly bring new meaning to `the moral majority` Quote
Pliny Posted February 10, 2009 Report Posted February 10, 2009 My question is~~~Will justice ever be served while big business is in bed with the politicians???? Is it justice you want or is it punishment? Are they politically synonymous today? If we see punishment do we think justice has been served? Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
Chris in KW Posted February 10, 2009 Report Posted February 10, 2009 There are lots of examples of unjust behavior of corporations and how they operate. Exxon Valdez tragic oil spill happened years ago and fair compensation for victims is still before the courts. The TVA and the recent toxic spill. Dow chemical and Bophal, India deaths. Syncrude and toxic oil tar sands pollution, the Love canal scandal, are just a few that come to mind. It's funny how a group of people (acting as a group) can justify things that the individuals in that group would never try to justify on their own. That's true of religious and political groups, and corporations. There's a fascinating documentary (I think it's called "The Corporation") that describes how and why corporations came about. Watch it (critically), even if you label it as left-wing nonsense. I see they now have a website that promotes "corporate harm reduction": http://www.thecorporation.com/ My question is~~~Will justice ever be served while big business is in bed with the politicians???? Well, i don't think that's the right question to ask. Your question assumes failure. The question is, how can we limit corporate power (or mandate corporate ethics, or regulate corporate activity) to reduce abuses, or at least make corporations pay to fix mistakes? Quote The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed. (Carl Jung)
Pliny Posted February 15, 2009 Report Posted February 15, 2009 It's funny how a group of people (acting as a group) can justify things that the individuals in that group would never try to justify on their own. That's true of religious and political groups, and corporations. There's a fascinating documentary (I think it's called "The Corporation") that describes how and why corporations came about. Watch it (critically), even if you label it as left-wing nonsense. I see they now have a website that promotes "corporate harm reduction": http://www.thecorporation.com/ Well, i don't think that's the right question to ask. Your question assumes failure. The question is, how can we limit corporate power (or mandate corporate ethics, or regulate corporate activity) to reduce abuses, or at least make corporations pay to fix mistakes? What is corporate power? Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
Oleg Bach Posted February 16, 2009 Report Posted February 16, 2009 What is corporate power? Biblically speaking is is the proverbial beast. To incorporate a thousand human bodies into one entity and call give it the rights of an individual is very sinister in deed. The term beast means dumb animal - a corporation once the founder has passed is like a huge dragon flailing it's spiked tail about - but it really has no brain - the founding brain is dead. So you have this great collective with great power like a huge mircrobial mass that has one useless purpose - the bottom line and the survival of a force that has no purpose other than to sustain itself - to eat...and eat all in it's path.. Once humanity if globally incorporated into one collective then you will see the full and dangerous power of the BEAST. An unstopable force that can not be reasoned with because it has no mind...no leader....just millions of minions eating --- it's a dark vision of the possibel future..the beast has no mercy - no mind and really no heart.....why do I feel like singing a tune out of THE WIZARD OF OZ? Quote
Pliny Posted February 17, 2009 Report Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Biblically speaking is is the proverbial beast. To incorporate a thousand human bodies into one entity and call give it the rights of an individual is very sinister in deed. The term beast means dumb animal - a corporation once the founder has passed is like a huge dragon flailing it's spiked tail about - but it really has no brain - the founding brain is dead. So you have this great collective with great power like a huge mircrobial mass that has one useless purpose - the bottom line and the survival of a force that has no purpose other than to sustain itself - to eat...and eat all in it's path.. Once humanity if globally incorporated into one collective then you will see the full and dangerous power of the BEAST. An unstopable force that can not be reasoned with because it has no mind...no leader....just millions of minions eating --- it's a dark vision of the possibel future..the beast has no mercy - no mind and really no heart.....why do I feel like singing a tune out of THE WIZARD OF OZ? Because it doesn't sound like you are in Kansas anymore? Well, thank you for that interpretation Oleg. I must say I wasn't expecting that! So is corporatism a form of collectivism? If so, is it then just another socialistic organism? A symbiotic parasite buoyed by sucking it's power to exist from the State in the form of privilege, bailouts, pork and favour? Is corporatism something the proletariat lost it's power to dictate to through it's only true power over any and all forms of collectivism - consumer choice? Edited February 17, 2009 by Pliny Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
Oleg Bach Posted February 17, 2009 Report Posted February 17, 2009 Because it doesn't sound like you are in Kansas anymore?Well, thank you for that interpretation Oleg. I must say I wasn't expecting that! So is corporatism a form of collectivism? If so, is it then just another socialistic organism? A symbiotic parasite buoyed by sucking it's power to exist from the State in the form of privilege, bailouts, pork and favour? Is corporatism something the proletariat lost it's power to dictate to through it's only true power over any and all forms of collectivism - consumer choice? Left Kansas a long time ago --- as they say - once you go into the spinning vortex and find the light - it opens up the sky and you can be a real good aim with a flying house....witch squashing is a sport I truely enjoy. You use the term "symbotic parasite"....that's a contradition you can not be symbotic and parasitical at the same time...a parasite takes and ever gives...symbiotic relationships are of mutal co-operation..there are no winners or losers just surviving winners. Consumers choice makes as much sense as getting the kids at the breakfast table and asking them what kind of cereal they want..This brand - or this one or this one or that one...It has been my experience that the child will bicker and hesitate and prolong some task that could be more quickly accomplished --- I would say to my wife ---"This breakfast is taking for ever - why are you giving them a CHOICE...? The are 3 years old for god's sake - don't give them a choice...feed them and get it over with" My real point when describing the collective orgainism is that the group be it corporation - over enlarged government or what every --- even a nation in a utlitarian state. An organic sort of thinking takes place - a collective consciousness begins to rule - and the problem with this consciousness it that it is actually UN-conscious and does not think - nor has it good judgement in what is good for the whole or the individual...It becomes a large moving cluster - a Zombie...and it can step on you.. Quote
Pliny Posted February 17, 2009 Report Posted February 17, 2009 Left Kansas a long time ago --- as they say - once you go into the spinning vortex and find the light - it opens up the sky and you can be a real good aim with a flying house....witch squashing is a sport I truely enjoy. You use the term "symbotic parasite"....that's a contradition you can not be symbotic and parasitical at the same time...a parasite takes and ever gives...symbiotic relationships are of mutal co-operation..there are no winners or losers just surviving winners. So you wouldn't consider governments parasites upon the economy and the power of corporations parasitical upon government acting symbiotically, i.e. mutually cooperating - government supplying the power of corporations to outstrip any competition while corporations grease the palms of government, and they thrive until the host revolts or dies. Consumers choice makes as much sense as getting the kids at the breakfast table and asking them what kind of cereal they want..This brand - or this one or this one or that one...It has been my experience that the child will bicker and hesitate and prolong some task that could be more quickly accomplished --- I would say to my wife ---"This breakfast is taking for ever - why are you giving them a CHOICE...? The are 3 years old for god's sake - don't give them a choice...feed them and get it over with" So by your good graces the children shall have Sugar Crisp. Children, although persons deserving of the highest respect, lack only experience in order to be allowed the freedom to act as adults, until then they must be guided by adults. By your analogy adults should not have choice either. My real point when describing the collective orgainism is that the group be it corporation - over enlarged government or what every --- even a nation in a utlitarian state. An organic sort of thinking takes place - a collective consciousness begins to rule - and the problem with this consciousness it that it is actually UN-conscious and does not think - nor has it good judgement in what is good for the whole or the individual...It becomes a large moving cluster - a Zombie...and it can step on you.. I won't argue that point. Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
Oleg Bach Posted February 17, 2009 Report Posted February 17, 2009 So you wouldn't consider governments parasites upon the economy and the power of corporations parasitical upon government acting symbiotically, i.e. mutually cooperating - government supplying the power of corporations to outstrip any competition while corporations grease the palms of government, and they thrive until the host revolts or dies.So by your good graces the children shall have Sugar Crisp. Children, although persons deserving of the highest respect, lack only experience in order to be allowed the freedom to act as adults, until then they must be guided by adults. By your analogy adults should not have choice either. I won't argue that point. The kids would get the best choice in what they have for breakfast//// MY choice because as you say - I have experience...and the Sugar Crisp is something brought into the house by a poorly choosen mate with poor judgement ..and we will leave it at that. Governments are to govern-- much like the real purpose for putting a governor on a motor ---- to preserve it as long as possible - by not allowing it to run at full capacity for to long and blow it self up. Government is not an opprossor but a manager....They become parasitic once the pride arrogance lust for human dominance over takes common sense and the purpose of it's existance. I have nothing against government...as long as those there are in service as agreed upon via the democratic social contract with the people - Once that contract is breached - they are no longer government - and passive or violent revolt are not the option...You counter them with the same device they abuse the public with - ignorance.....You boycott them by ignoring them. As for adult choice ------- if the adult is 30 years old and has the wisdom of a new born...then perhaps his choice of which video game to buy should be his. We have too many choices and those things that are choosen through the inticement of advertising become non-choices the next day and fill our landfills. My last wife of 25 years was a chooser ---- a consumer --- unless she was consuming product at a relentless consistant pace she was not happy - consumerism was her religion - there was never enough to satisfy this type of human being ---- my wise mother said of this person on first meeting....gesturing with her finger to her mouth and then to her anus...."goes in this end and comes out the other - non stop and there is no end - I pitty you my son that you will struggle to keep this thing going - she was right. Consumerism as a way of life is a form of mental illness and enslavement...Take what you need and leave the rest!~ Quote
Pliny Posted February 23, 2009 Report Posted February 23, 2009 Governments are to govern-- much like the real purpose for putting a governor on a motor ---- to preserve it as long as possible - by not allowing it to run at full capacity for to long and blow it self up. Government is not an opprossor but a manager.... How does the governor of government work? In our democracy is it only in the vote? Government is not a friend. I like George Washington's description. "Government is not elegance. It is not reason. It is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master." Once the people are granted privilege by government, such as "free" health care and education, or special status, it is viewed as a "right", an entitlement and the "governor" comes off leaving the government self regulating. As for adult choice ------- if the adult is 30 years old and has the wisdom of a new born...then perhaps his choice of which video game to buy should be his. We have too many choices and those things that are choosen through the inticement of advertising become non-choices the next day and fill our landfills. My last wife of 25 years was a chooser ---- a consumer --- unless she was consuming product at a relentless consistant pace she was not happy - consumerism was her religion - there was never enough to satisfy this type of human being ---- my wise mother said of this person on first meeting....gesturing with her finger to her mouth and then to her anus...."goes in this end and comes out the other - non stop and there is no end - I pitty you my son that you will struggle to keep this thing going - she was right. Consumerism as a way of life is a form of mental illness and enslavement...Take what you need and leave the rest!~ We all make choices we regret. We all must consume and we all must make choices. It is government that must keep an economy going in order to take it's sustenance from the produce of the people. It is government that must drive consumerism lest it itself wither. And that is obvious in the current environment by their attempt to "stimulate" the economy. They cannot allow you the choice not to consume or they die. They attempt to stimulate consumption by providing easy credit and pouring money into the economy. They do not themselves cut spending or make production easier and that is perhaps because they don't have any idea what you would choose to consume. They just want you to consume and it doesn't matter what. Soon you will be hearing about "hoarders" that are not contributing to the stimulus of the economy. It will be unpatriotic to "save". They will make it illegal to own assets used to preserve value while their fiat currency loses value. It is true that many people would suffer financially if the government did nothing but the economy cannot sustain itself. It is a house of cards and propping it up will only prolong the fantasy. Government, in my view must remain limited in it's size and mandate or it becomes all-consuming. Quote I want to be in the class that ensures the classless society remains classless.
cybercoma Posted February 23, 2009 Report Posted February 23, 2009 There is no justice. Wealth is always made by standing on the backs of nearly impoverished labour forces. Quote
Oleg Bach Posted February 23, 2009 Report Posted February 23, 2009 There is no justice. Wealth is always made by standing on the backs of nearly impoverished labour forces. That's so stero-typical commie...I catch myself doing this when I use the word worker. You have to take a more insider approach...You can not tear down the established temple with nothing in place that's better to replace it with.. Authorities take offense at such revolutionary statements - Yes it is true - but the best you can to is be diligent in your efforts to change the powers that be...it is difficult to deprogram the so-called wealthy - All great familiar inherited wealth comes from some sort of crime committed by the founders...These originals have children who take over the "buisness" .. - these people are programmed to be cruel and heartless when it comes to those who are more poor and more just and fair...I suggest you attempt to win the hearts and minds of not just the masses but of the wealthy. It's almost impossible to change these people - but even one power monger won over is helpful. You have to love them - then they have to option to love back - if they hate more intensely because of your good will towards them - then they slowly destroy them selves - it all works out. This concept was originated by Jesus the old king of Judea...Love your enemies....this is also a very offensive approach - the advesary has a choice to love back - and if they hate you that hate becomes toxic and they parish...kind of a sweeter and more gentle assassination... Quote
Sir Bandelot Posted December 11, 2010 Report Posted December 11, 2010 Justice comes eventually, real justice, given enough time and space. Son of Bernie Madoff dead in apparent suicide NEW YORK — Jailed financier Bernard Madoff's son was found dead of an apparent suicide Saturday on the second anniversary of his father's arrest, according to a law enforcement official. Mark Madoff, 46, was found in his apartment in Manhattan's fashionable SoHo district, according to the official. His body was found hanging from a dog leash that had been fashioned into a noose and strung over a pipe in the ceiling of his living room. "Mark was an innocent victim of his father's monstrous crime." Martin Flumenbaum, an attorney representing Mark said. What goes around, comes around. Oroboro Quote
bloodyminded Posted December 15, 2010 Report Posted December 15, 2010 (edited) Justice comes eventually, real justice, given enough time and space. Son of Bernie Madoff dead in apparent suicide NEW YORK Jailed financier Bernard Madoff's son was found dead of an apparent suicide Saturday on the second anniversary of his father's arrest, according to a law enforcement official. Mark Madoff, 46, was found in his apartment in Manhattan's fashionable SoHo district, according to the official. His body was found hanging from a dog leash that had been fashioned into a noose and strung over a pipe in the ceiling of his living room. "Mark was an innocent victim of his father's monstrous crime." Martin Flumenbaum, an attorney representing Mark said. What goes around, comes around. Oroboro "Sins of the father" is not a view inclined towards justice, in my opinion. Edited December 15, 2010 by bloodyminded Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Bonam Posted December 15, 2010 Report Posted December 15, 2010 Justice comes eventually, real justice, given enough time and space. Son of Bernie Madoff dead in apparent suicide NEW YORK — Jailed financier Bernard Madoff's son was found dead of an apparent suicide Saturday on the second anniversary of his father's arrest, according to a law enforcement official. Mark Madoff, 46, was found in his apartment in Manhattan's fashionable SoHo district, according to the official. His body was found hanging from a dog leash that had been fashioned into a noose and strung over a pipe in the ceiling of his living room. "Mark was an innocent victim of his father's monstrous crime." Martin Flumenbaum, an attorney representing Mark said. What goes around, comes around. Oroboro We already had a thread on this. To take joy in the death of someone's child is perverse indeed. Quote
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