The Anti-Immigration Sentiment

OddSox · January 6, 2009

And thats because of Unions (in this province) who convince the govt under the Trades Qualification & Apprenticeship Act to institute the 3-1 rule for trades. Immigrants would do that work, if only the Govt could see fit to tell the others to piss off.

It's kind of a side note, but even the interprovincial trade barriers in this country are ridiculous, and many of them are union-instigated.

85RZ500 · January 7, 2009

Is this a joke. Country Rejects are not cream of the crop. They couldn't cut the mustard wherever they came from so they come here. Their home countries don't want them back because Canada did them a favor.

That was then, this is now. The Cons have ammended the act and are supposedly looking at only people of "quality"

As I said, if we accept all their doctors and engineers, we are stealing from their countrys.

The matter of verifying qualifications is another matter, scary stuff indeed.

Oh, and it appears we have had another "honour" killing in these parts, nice.

Argus · January 7, 2009

Umm, you were the one who brought up the 50s with your rant about 'white' cab drivers etc. By the way, my parents immigrated in 1953 and could not speak a word of English, as well as many of the parents of my friends.

Good for them. It wasn't a rant. I merely pointed out that in the absence of masses of desperate immigrants we managed to find people to "do the jobs Canadians refuse to do", without much trouble.

Argus · January 7, 2009

But we do have a demand for it.
Stats Can would disagree with you.

That demand is being met by 11,000 migrant workers. How then does this somehow justify bringing in 250,000 permanent immigrants - who won't work on farms anyway?

"Six months after their arrival, 58% of immigrants reported that they were able to speak English well or very well, while the corresponding figure for French was 11%. Four years after arrival, 69% were able to speak English well or very well, and 14% could speak French so."
Please tell us what it tells you.

It tells me taxi drivers think their English is very good, even if no one else does.

And thats because of Unions (in this province) who convince the govt under the Trades Qualification & Apprenticeship Act to institute the 3-1 rule for trades. Immigrants would do that work, if only the Govt could see fit to tell the others to piss off.

Well, I'm not in trades, but I have a close friend and brother in law and nephew who are. They say there is no interest among our primary immigrant groups (Chinese, India/Pakistan, Africans) for working construction. None have ever seen even a single on on a job site, or trying to get work on a site. They can't remember ever even hearing about one on a job site. I don't think that's just the unions, as only the brother in law has his union papers.

We denigrated all sorts of people in that past. Most of it wrong headed and bigotted.

Perhaps. There is always a clash when cultures meet. However, never in history has the gap between our culture, and that of most immigrants been as great. Never before has the gap between the education/skill/technical level of our society and theirs been so great. An illiterate Irish goat herder could easily find work to do even 50 years ago. Today... not so much. And never before has it been so easy to be a failed immigrant in Canada. Fifty or sixty years ago if you didn't work, you didn't eat, your family had no clothes, and you had no medical care. Now an immigrant can live off social services and have a FAR better life than he would have enjoyed in his homeland. You are discounting all of that.

whowhere · January 7, 2009

Good for them. It wasn't a rant. I merely pointed out that in the absence of masses of desperate immigrants we managed to find people to "do the jobs Canadians refuse to do", without much trouble.

I love refuse to do because there are jobs I would love to do but the employer gives the job to immigrant/newcomer because he is going to save money and keep more for himself. To get anywhere requires opportunity and experience. The Governments have stripped away opportunity in turn denying experience. I know the job market. I know the attitudes of Government Bureacrats. They are assholes. I know this because of the Conservative Government, an asshole on a work permit was made a manager over my department. This manager's goal was to frustrate me out of my employment. He succeeded thanks to the Government Assholes. He did this to save money on his budget. As I try to find relevant work I am competing against low cost immigrants. Thanks boomer trash, may god reap upon you what you sow: the furnace of fire and the gnashing of your teeth.

Fak u Harper.

M.Dancer · January 7, 2009

I love refuse to do because there are jobs I would love to do but the employer gives the job to immigrant/newcomer because he is going to save money and keep more for himself.

Your english is curious. Where did you immigrate from? I'm guessing from the syntax maybe Turkey or Armenia?

Leafless · January 7, 2009

Your english is curious. Where did you immigrate from? I'm guessing from the syntax maybe Turkey or Armenia?

Never the less.

Dancer the grammar queen.

guyser · January 7, 2009

Never the less.
Dancer the grammar queen.

You meant "de-facto" grammar king doncha?

OddSox · January 7, 2009

Good for them. It wasn't a rant. I merely pointed out that in the absence of masses of desperate immigrants we managed to find people to "do the jobs Canadians refuse to do", without much trouble.

Ah, but my point is that the people doing those jobs were immigrants, even if they were white. The immigration level back then was as high or higher than it is now, and 99% of them have managed over time to integrate with our society while still maintaining their own cultures. And the current batch of immigrants will do the same given the chance.

Vancouver King · January 7, 2009

You meant "de-facto" grammar king doncha?

No real man uses dancer in his handle. Unless, of course, he's a glamour queen.

bill_barilko · January 7, 2009

Well, I'm not in trades, but I have a close friend and brother in law and nephew who are. They say there is no interest among our primary immigrant groups (Chinese, India/Pakistan, Africans) for working construction. None have ever seen even a single on on a job site, or trying to get work on a site. They can't remember ever even hearing about one on a job site. I don't think that's just the unions, as only the brother in law has his union papers.

Trades are attracting Spanish speakers in large numbers they tend to blend in quickly (underneath the grime).

Start as a labourer, work hard show what you can do and then your experience as tradesman in Bogota or Tegucigalpa or wherever will be recognised, that's the plan anyway and for some it's working.

I'm in Vancouver and signs on most sites are in English and Spanish these days -such as on a garbage bin

Only Drywall

Solo Drywall

It's similar on hiring notices on sites I see walking through downtown daily.

trooper · January 8, 2009

Now an immigrant can live off social services and have a FAR better life than he would have enjoyed in his homeland. You are discounting all of that.

This is B.S. and you know it. if you cared to watch the video from W-5 I posted before, you will see that immigrants are pissed off. They feel cheated and a couple have even tried to file a class action against the government for cheating them. (They both had over 10 years of experience from the UK and were promised good jobs from the British counsel.)

This stereotyping as if immigrants are all from Bangladesh and speak very little English is pathetic. Social services my ass, unless they have a job with medical benefits, the so-called "universal healthcare system" still dings you with huge medical expenses. Obviously you won't know it as you probably never been in such a position. Having lived through it, it isn't pretty, even in Canada.

The immigrants of the 50's were illiterate and totally willing to do any work to survive and thrive. But the immigrants of today have to pass through a rigorous 'points system' where education level, experience and job security are huge and they are promised jobs by the government that says there's a "demand" for the jobs like Pharmacy and when they come here that degree is worthless and they have to start all over again in their 40's and 50's.

Obviously you will find none of that relevant to you and so you will trivialize it or ignore it. But that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

The Canadian government and the boomers are leeching off the immigrants more.

If you cannot calculate simple numbers let me help you:

250,000 Immigrants a year x $975 processing fee = 243,750,000/year + other ancillary fees

Add to that, immigrants are required to bring in certain amount of money, I'm not sure how much it exactly is, but I heart it's somewhere between $25,000 to $50,000. And they obviously spend that money on a car, apartment/house etc. that helps run the economy.

So stop acting live you are doing the immigrants a favour when in fact they are doing you a favor by shutting up and minding their own business even though the government has ripped their hopes and dreams. Cut them some slack will ya?

Martin Chriton · January 8, 2009

So stop acting live you are doing the immigrants a favour when in fact they are doing you a favor by shutting up and minding their own business even though the government has ripped their hopes and dreams. Cut them some slack will ya?

The problem is Canada lets people in before they get the jobs. Jobs should be secured first, they should work sometime under a visa, e.g.: something like the America's H1-B, then they should get their citizenship.

Letting people in before they get interviewed/accepted for jobs doesn't help anyone. Canada needs to be biased towards immigrates that have a proven experience, and the best way to determine that is whether they're able to secure employment.

Often times Canada seems to be used by immigrants as a backup for those aren't accepted by the US. There is no reason why the quality bar for being accepted as Canadian citizen should be less than that of the US.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Martin Chriton

Martin Chriton · January 8, 2009

250,000 Immigrants a year x $975 processing fee = 243,750,000/year + other ancillary fees

That's peanuts if you look at how much money the average workers pays in taxes every year. If those people aren't paying equivalent taxes albeit minus that small processing fee they're a drain on the system.

M.Dancer · January 8, 2009

No real man uses dancer in his handle. Unless, of course, he's a glamour queen.

No real man uses Vancouver, unless he's Sven...

bill_barilko · January 8, 2009

This is B.S. and you know it. if you cared to watch the video from W-5 I posted before, you will see that immigrants are pissed off. They feel cheated and a couple have even tried to file a class action against the government for cheating them. (They both had over 10 years of experience from the UK and were promised good jobs from the British counsel.)

They say they were promised good jobs but have no proof, starting over is never easy and they have to deal with it just like everyone else does/has done since the beginning.

That website is for whiners, I know immigrants here who are quite happy with what they have even though it's less than what they left-because their kids will have a better life.

That's why they left Colombia or China or Korea or Thailand-for their children.

trooper · January 8, 2009

They say they were promised good jobs but have no proof, starting over is never easy and they have to deal with it just like everyone else does/has done since the beginning.
That website is for whiners, I know immigrants here who are quite happy with what they have even though it's less than what they left-because their kids will have a better life.

That's why they left Colombia or China or Korea or Thailand-for their children.

Okay... So Canadian government says they are desperate for skilled workers and doctors, pharmacists etc. but when a doctor with 10 years experience from the UK or South Africa comes here, they have to do 2 years of study + wait 4 years for a license. Isn't that cheating and deceit? Why should the government accept these folks in the first place if they have to wait for 6+ years to even practice their profession?

As opposed to the US who readily accept these degrees. Last I heard, they are the world superpower. Why? The whole world agrees due to the smartest minds coming and working in the US. In Canada, the smartest minds are not given an opportunity to shine but rather pushed down and under and demoralized.

Over the past 10 years or so, the immigrants are coming here by taking risks not just for a a better life for their kids but also themselves. (i.e. chances to grow in their profession) But as we saw from the Chinese woman in the video, that hasn't happened.

The fact that there are even such websites (there are others that target New Zealand which also has a similar shoddy immigration system) shows how pathetic the Canadian immigration system is in getting the brightest of people from all parts of the world and wasting their potential. And to have people like Argus who talk condescendingly towards the immigrants is shameful.

trooper · January 8, 2009

That's peanuts if you look at how much money the average workers pays in taxes every year. If those people aren't paying equivalent taxes albeit minus that small processing fee they're a drain on the system.

They also bring in a combined amount of over $2.5 Billion to $5 Billion CDN per year that gets taxed. You conveniently fail to ignore that.

It surpasses the insane amount of taxes average workers pay. It's the government's easy money that helps the boomers get their pension checks every month. Yet they are the most complaining bunch of the lot. Ironic.

bill_barilko · January 8, 2009

Okay... So Canadian government says they are desperate for skilled workers and doctors, pharmacists etc. but when a doctor with 10 years experience from the UK or South Africa comes here, they have to do 2 years of study + wait 4 years for a license. Isn't that cheating and deceit? Why should the government accept these folks in the first place if they have to wait for 6+ years to even practice their profession?

Two word answer- Professional Associations.

They protect what they see as their own and couldn't care less about serving the public.

trooper · January 8, 2009

Two word answer- Professional Associations.
They protect what they see as their own and couldn't care less about serving the public.

Isn't the same in any other western country. UK, US and Australia have Professional Associations too but they still accept other degrees and are prosperous nations. Canada seems to be the only western nation (other than New Zealand maybe) that advertises and lures immigrants in but is too rigid and disorganized to allow for leeway for accreditation.

bill_barilko · January 8, 2009

Isn't the same in any other western country. UK, US and Australia have Professional Associations too but they still accept other degrees and are prosperous nations. Canada seems to be the only western nation (other than New Zealand maybe) that advertises and lures immigrants in but is too rigid and disorganized to allow for leeway for accreditation.

So you agree that I'm right.

And you're onto something when you mention disorganised, who ever praised the Canadian Gubmint for being efficient and coordinated?

Martin Chriton · January 8, 2009

the Canadian immigration system is in getting the brightest of people from all parts of the world and wasting their potential.

This is simply untrue. Our immigration system sucks because we're not getting best and most qualified immigrants.

There are several things that need to be done:

1. Bias towards those with higher education.

2. Bias towards those that have already secured employment.

3. Bias towards those that are already working under a work visa.

The Conservatives proposed #1, which is a start, and were blasted for it. It's a shame. Canada's current immigration policy is designed to be a welfare program for the rest of the world. It shouldn't remain like this.

You seem to be blaming the government for these immigrant's problem, that's fine insofar as they should never have been accepted in the first place had #1, #2, and #3 been in effect. Government should not put private sector in a position that they're forced to hire a specified amount of immigrants.

As someone who has worked in the US on a TN, and now an H1-B, I haven't seen this problem here as the immigrants I work with secure employment before going through the Visa/Green Card/Citizenship process. Note I work in Silicon Valley area where there are an immense amount of educated immigrants.

Edited January 8, 2009 by Martin Chriton

Argus · January 8, 2009

This is B.S. and you know it.

How do I know it? How is it BS? I used to live practially across the street from one of Ottawa's major housing project, and it was filled with immigrants and refugees.

This stereotyping as if immigrants are all from Bangladesh and speak very little English is pathetic.

I didn't say "all" of them are from third world shitholes - just the vast majority. Which is proven by simply consulting immigration canada about our source countries.

The immigrants of the 50's were illiterate and totally willing to do any work to survive and thrive. But the immigrants of today have to pass through a rigorous 'points system' where education level, experience and job security are huge and they are promised jobs by the government that says there's a "demand" for the jobs like Pharmacy and when they come here that degree is worthless and they have to start all over again in their 40's and 50's.

I'm sure some of the immigrants in the 50s were illiterate, but not all that many since the great majority came from Europe. I'm equally sure many of the immigrants today are illiterate, as most do not come in through any kind of points system. When you add together those who come in as refugees, those who come in under family reunification, and those who are brought in by a primary points system immigrant (ie spouses) they greatly outnumber those individuals who have actually gotten in through points.

I'm also sure that the government never promises them jobs. And I would think that a professional in another country would make sure his or her credentials would be acceptable in another country before packing up and moving there.

250,000 Immigrants a year x $975 processing fee = 243,750,000/year + other ancillary fees

Citizenship and Immigration Canada spends about a billion a year on its programs - four times what you list them as collecting above.

Add to that, immigrants are required to bring in certain amount of money,

So they can buy a house. So what? How much is siphoned out of Canada every year by millions of immigrants sending money home to their poor countries?

Argus · January 8, 2009

They also bring in a combined amount of over $2.5 Billion to $5 Billion CDN per year that gets taxed. You conveniently fail to ignore that.

Where did you get that number from?

It surpasses the insane amount of taxes average workers pay. It's the government's easy money that helps the boomers get their pension checks every month. Yet they are the most complaining bunch of the lot. Ironic.

According to stats canada immigrants send about $2 billion per year offshore to their families abroad.

BigAl · January 8, 2009

I know that there are some people people on this forum who are condescending towards immigrants (Mr.Canada) and it sickens me.. To me, immigrants are as Canada as any other; in fact, this country was somewhat built by immigrants, so what gives? Apparently, some people think that the citizenship card doesn't really mean much anymore.. I take quite a lot of pride as a Canadian to know that we are very libertarian and friendly towards immigrants.

I'd take it a step further and say that the current culture in Canada (and indeed in North America) was ENTIRELY built by immigrants -- witness the marginalization of the Native people of this continent. I am totally in support of talented, educated people coming to this country in order to help us build a new future. The one and only thing I ask -- and forgive me if this sounds "racist" -- is that if you're an immigrant looking to work in public services, please make an effort to learn the language. If you already do, awesome. If you don't -- come on man, it's English -- learn it on your lunchbreak or something. I'm just saying if I moved to a non-English speaking country I would do my damndest to learn the native language as quickly and efficiently as possible. It's not as though we don't have hundreds of services in place to facilitate this.