The Conservatives are financially prudent?

[bush_cheney2004]

.....Canada is a top rank NATO power and as such, the entire world watches how the CF's military procurement performs. The contractor isn't getting a free ride for this. Wanna bet the next RFP they respond to they get a question back asking "Why did you fail to deliver to Canada on time and why is it going to be different for us?"?

Actually, Canada struggles to maintain even middle power status and is the butt of many procurement jokes when it comes to rotary winged aircraft. Canadian Forces deserve better....

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Actually, Canada struggles to maintain even middle power status and is the butt of many procurement jokes when it comes to rotary winged aircraft. Canadian Forces deserve better....

Its a pleasure to find myself agreeing with you for a change.

[Boydfish]

Actually, Canada struggles to maintain even middle power status and is the butt of many procurement jokes when it comes to rotary winged aircraft. Canadian Forces deserve better....

Every procurement in a modern military is fraught with almost comical challenges. When you bring together the best and brightest from military and government services, there are bound to be snags and glitches. The bigger problem is that the best and brightest in the military don't work in supply and the best and brightest in the government don't work in defence.

I'd agree that "better" is needed, both in terms of equipment and in how that equipment is procured. That said, the government had a choice of a few bucks back and average helicopters in 2010 or above average helicopters for a few bucks more in 2010. Either way, they get the helicopters in 2010.

While an argument could eventually be constructed about throwing good money after bad, at this point it makes good sense to grab a beneficial deal.

[bush_cheney2004]

....While an argument could eventually be constructed about throwing good money after bad, at this point it makes good sense to grab a beneficial deal.

No doubt...but when it comes to helos, Canada's procurement record is reminiscent of a committee designing a horse.....the result is a very expensive camel.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Nice analogy!

Brings back memories of the Arrow.

[Moonbox]

Every procurement in a modern military is fraught with almost comical challenges. When you bring together the best and brightest from military and government services, there are bound to be snags and glitches. The bigger problem is that the best and brightest in the military don't work in supply and the best and brightest in the government don't work in defence.

Military procurement IS complicated and highly technical/political/logistical. You have to plan WELL in advance for future procurement and you have to make sure those procurements are being done with 'the Big Picture' in mind.

Throughout the mid-late 80's and 90's, the US military completely overhauled itself. They anticipated what future conflicts would be like and where they would be, what sort of equipment they would need for these conflicts, and then they designed/purchased equipment that integrated perfectly with their existing and/or future systems.

This sort of fore-sightedness is what led to things like the M1 Tank, Apache Helicopter, the Black Hawk, the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, LRMS etc that nobody on earth now could hope to match in combined quality/volume.

The Canadian military, on the other hand, has been hamstrung by the idea that we don't need a military. Instead of cooperating with American and European military development, we've left ourselves out and ignored the forward thinking that has streamlined processes around the world.

Now that we've landed ourselves in a conflict our government has had to improvise to get equipment on the field. We've borrowed Leopard Tanks from Germany, bought second hand from Holland and scrambled to find someone to make the right helicopters in time for our troops to be able to use in Afghanistan.

Edited December 31, 2008 by Moonbox

[punked]

Military procurement IS complicated and highly technical/political/logistical. You have to plan WELL in advance for future procurement and you have to make sure those procurements are being done with 'the Big Picture' in mind.

Throughout the mid-late 80's and 90's, the US military completely overhauled itself. They anticipated what future conflicts would be like and where they would be, what sort of equipment they would need for these conflicts, and then they designed/purchased equipment that integrated perfectly with their existing and/or future systems.

This sort of fore-sightedness is what led to things like the M1 Tank, Apache Helicopter, the Black Hawk, the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, LRMS etc that nobody on earth now could hope to match in combined quality/volume.

The Canadian military, on the other hand, has been hamstrung by the idea that we don't need a military. Instead of cooperating with American and European military development, we've left ourselves out and ignored the forward thinking that has streamlined processes around the world.

Now that we've landed ourselves in a conflict our government has had to improvise to get equipment on the field. We've borrowed Leopard Tanks from Germany, bought second hand from Holland and scrambled to find someone to make the right helicopters in time for our troops to be able to use in Afghanistan.

Give us Butter

[eyeball]

Now that we've landed ourselves in a conflict our government...

Now that our government has landed us in a conflict we could never afford to start and had no business with in the first place, perhaps Canadians will think twice before doing so again, ever.

But I doubt we will.

[Moonbox]

you'd hope we would have thought about it PRIOR to going yes. Now that we're there, what do we do? It's difficult internationally to just bail and leave a power vaccuum. It's generally seen VERY negatively.