Religious Right in Canada

[Mr.Canada]

I agree. If you are right, the tories will be removed from power and never again return.

The pendulum is swinging back to the right, that's the pendulum of public opinion who have been living with this socialist hell for the last 45 years or so and the public has had enough of this social experiment.

[gordiecanuk]

You seem to think Jesus as some sort of benevolent person. He was anything but. He had compassion but little patience for those who don't follow His rules.

I don't know about that, he always struck me as pretty forgiving.

[gordiecanuk]

Praise Jeebis!

LoL Bubber...big LoL!!! But I don't even believe in Jeebis!!!

[charter.rights]

The pendulum is swinging back to the right, that's the pendulum of public opinion who have been living with this socialist hell for the last 45 years or so and the public has had enough of this social experiment.

No its not. Propaganda has you believing that the Conservatives are our saviours. They are as far removed from God as the Communists and you are just being taken in by your own delusions.

[blueblood]

The religious right will take more control the Tories at some point and have more power to shape policy. Thank God. More and more religious folks are realizing that the other parties are Godless and secularism pushers which is too far away from God. The pendulum is starting to swing back to the right now as it cannot go any further left. Our time is coming.

Do you want a shovel to help you with that hole your digging?

Damn blasted bible thumpers are ruining it for the fiscal people like myself. Pope JP II would shake his head at you. Please do the party a favor and invest in some duct tape.

[gordiecanuk]

Do you want a shovel to help you with that hole your digging?

Damn blasted bible thumpers are ruining it for the fiscal people like myself. Pope JP II would shake his head at you. Please do the party a favor and invest in some duct tape.

You just gotta know that the Libs are rubbing their hands with glee at the fundamentalist/evangelical crowd's intolerance. Heaven forbid (pun intended) that most Canadians haven't been made to see the light yet. Just give Harper a majority so we can all do our part to speed the second coming of the saviour.

[ToadBrother]

Do all you secularists/atheists really want a country stripped of all religion like North Korea or the USSR?

No, we don't. No one I know of (except a few dogmatically nutty atheists) is advocating the removal of religion, but rather maintaining a separation between church and state.

[WIP]

The USSR was officially an atheist state, and the goal of the Sooviet government for most of its existence was not the separation of Church and State, but the elimination of religion. No such thing in the US.

Which has nothing to do with the desires of most atheists and agnostics, who just want evidence-based government, not supernatural-based government. No one is stopping the religious from practicing their religions here; it shouldn't be too much to ask to keep religious rules out of public policy.

[WIP]

Most of the hierarchy and lower clergy of the Russian Orthodox Church were murdered during the Revolution of 1917-1922. That Church was the victim of murders, deportations and other forms of persecution during most of the existence of the Soviet regime;

And they were also much of the blame for creating the conditions that led to the rise of Communism. Before 1917, the Russian Orthodox Church owned most of the land and provided divine legitimacy for the despotic czarist regimes that ran the country. They also legitimized the feudal order that kept the vast majority of Russians in poverty. As a result, it's hard to feel any sympathy towards them for their share of suffering

In Russia TODAY there is separation of Church and State and some level of religious freedoms. But tthere is NO denying that there was indeed a high level of persecution of religions under the Soviet regime.

If there is separation of church and state in Russia now, I wonder how long it will last, since Putin is working so hard to rehabilitate the Russian Orthodox Church as a state body. At least Lenin and Stalin didn't have supernatural legitimacy to govern with; Russia is heading back to the theocratic czarist type of despotism that they had before Lenin took over.

[CANADIEN]

At least Lenin and Stalin didn't have supernatural legitimacy to govern with

No, they (especially Stalin) had terror and the belief in man-made quasi-divinities (the proletariat and the cult of personnality). So, should we conclude that for you it somehow mitigates their crimes?

Unlike what you do with the knowledge of the existence of God, I will not use that to conclude that atheism is a murdeerous ideology, or that atheists are some sorts of monster. Nor will I waste my time counting bodies, since even one person killed in the name of any ideology is two too many.

Edited January 11, 2009 by CANADIEN

[MontyBurns]

No one is preaching to you. What secular people want is freedom and equality within the boundaries of a just society. We are not slowly removing religion, we are protecting it in conjunction with other things.

What secularists want is their own views (or lack thereof) to be predominant. To me, religion is a integral part of our culture and heritage that should be valued and celebrated. Do you not celebrate Christmas? It's a religious holiday btw.

I find among secularists a bit of a double standard. They degrade the religion of Christianity but are silent about other religions. I never hear secularists criticize Islam for example. The "Christian right" is fair game though.

[Mr.Canada]

What secularists want is their own views (or lack thereof) to be predominant. To me, religion is a integral part of our culture and heritage that should be valued and celebrated. Do you not celebrate Christmas? It's a religious holiday btw.

I find among secularists a bit of a double standard. They degrade the religion of Christianity but are silent about other religions. I never hear secularists criticize Islam for example. The "Christian right" is fair game though.

Agreed, I've made this point before. It's only Christianity that is a threat. Islamic fascism is celebrated as a triumph of multiculturalism as is every other religion. Only the evil Jesuits need to be shunned by the secular socialists.

[ToadBrother]

What secularists want is their own views (or lack thereof) to be predominant. To me, religion is a integral part of our culture and heritage that should be valued and celebrated. Do you not celebrate Christmas? It's a religious holiday btw.

I find among secularists a bit of a double standard. They degrade the religion of Christianity but are silent about other religions. I never hear secularists criticize Islam for example. The "Christian right" is fair game though.

Secularism isn't about criticizing religions, it's about making sure that the government is blind to any religious faith. And if you think secularists don't criticize secularism, then you weren't listening very hard when folks got up in arms about Shariah-styled courts in Ontario.

REligion may be an integral part of society, but the government and the courts must be blind to it, or we get, to one degree or another, what England was once like; perhaps tolerating people of other beliefs, but certainly giving the upper hand to those not only of the appropriate faith, but of the appropriate church.

Sadly, nonsense like the "war on Christmas" get spread around as if it were true. It isn't.

[Smallc]

They degrade the religion of Christianity but are silent about other religions.

No religion has a place in government. I don't care what religion we're talking about.

[MontyBurns]

REligion may be an integral part of society, but the government and the courts must be blind to it, or we get, to one degree or another, what England was once like; perhaps tolerating people of other beliefs, but certainly giving the upper hand to those not only of the appropriate faith, but of the appropriate church.

Ok, the government should be blind to atheism/secularism as well them. Atheism is a religion.

Edited January 11, 2009 by MontyBurns

[MontyBurns]

No religion has a place in government. I don't care what religion we're talking about.

What about atheism?

[ToadBrother]

Ok, the government should be blind to atheism/secularism as well them. Atheism is a religion.

No it is not. ATheism is the lack of belief in God. How is that a religion? Unless of course you use such a wide-open definition that football and two-column accounting are religions as well.

And secularism is a political philosphy, and is not atheism.

But hey, if changing the meanings of words wins arguments, why not?

[MontyBurns]

ATheism is the lack of belief in God.?

So it is "belief" then. A religion in other words.

[LesterDC]

What about atheism?

The country is SECULAR. Not Atheist.. There is a difference.

The last time I checked, you have the right to practice religion, just keep it to yourself..

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

a) freedom of conscience and religion;

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely

between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for

his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government

reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign

reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that

their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment

of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus

building a wall of separation between church and State."

- Jefferson

Nobody could have said it better..

[LesterDC]

So it is "belief" then. A religion in other words.

Since when did belief become interchangeable with religion? Do you worship your son's football team when you believe that he will win?

[bush_cheney2004]

....Nobody could have said it better..

Maybe.....but he clearly wasn't speaking for Canadians.

[bush_cheney2004]

Since when did belief become interchangeable with religion? Do you worship your son's football team when you believe that he will win?

Yet...all are constituents of a "belief system".....gods are just a subset of this.

[MontyBurns]

Since when did belief become interchangeable with religion?

You wish to impose your secular beliefs on me. Why can't I impose my beliefs on you.

[ToadBrother]

You wish to impose your secular beliefs on me. Why can't I impose my beliefs on you.

So let me get this straight, because some of us want to make sure that our government doesn't promulgate a specific set of religious doctrines, adopt any specific faith or church as an official one, or judge or treat people differently based upon their religious beliefs (or lack thereof), we're imposing a set of beliefs on you?

[LesterDC]

Maybe.....but he clearly wasn't speaking for Canadians.

What is your point? Separation of Church and State is not exclusive to a specific country..