Is Stephen Harper A Loose Canon?

[maplesyrup]

Harper has been involved in quite a few serious controversies.

-from an editorial in todays Toronto Star.

Harper, though, is not a true national politician. His track record shows he is a westerner first and foremost, with past comments indicating an anti-Ontario, anti-Quebec, and anti-Maritimes mindset.

Now the NDP has been attacked by Stephen Harper as being as big a threat to Canada as the Quebec separatists.

NDP just as harmful as Bloc, Harper says

The New Democrats in a coalition government would be as dangerous to Canada as the separatist Bloc Québécois, Stephen Harper said yesterday.

NDP Leader Jack Layton said Mr. Harper should do his homework because the party's election platform includes a commitment to annual balanced budgets.

Mr. Layton derided Mr. Harper for painting the NDP as fiscally irresponsible and pointed out that conservative-minded politicians have run red-ink-soaked budgets in Ontario, British Columbia and the United States.

"If Stephen Harper wants to see fiscal recklessness in action, he should call up his friends [former Ontario premier] Ernie Eves, [b.C. Premier] Gordon Campbell or [u.S. President] George Bush and ask them how tax cuts create deficits," Mr. Layton said.

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/Articl...P18//?query=ndp

Now I know that the growing NDP fortunes, particularly in Western Canada, must be quite disappointing to the Conservatives.

But maybe Stephen Harper is the loose canon that many people have accused him of being.

[BigGunner]

We know that the NDP has the attention of the Liberals, and now it seems that the conservatives have been feeling some heat too.

Stephen Harper would send Canadian troops to Iraq - only to get car bombed into coffins. A Stephen Harper government would outsource good paying manufacturing jobs to foreign countries probably faster than George Bush has.

The NDP growth might be frightening to the Conservatives, but there is nothing more threatening to the very existence of this country than the potential of Stephen Harper as the PM.

[maplesyrup]

Harper, with his vicious attacks on so many areas in Canada is going to marginalize the Conservatives.

[maplesyrup]

First harper says he will work with the Bloc.

Then he accuses the NDP of being as bad as the Bloc

Think about it.

[NDP Newbie]

Blocheads aren't any better though:

Look at the propaganda they believe about the NDP.

[Goldie]

What Harper stated

The NDP is against free enterprise, against free trade, and against balanced budgets. In their own way, they are capable of doing as much damage to Canada as the Bloc Quebecois, when put inside a governing coalition,” continued Harper. “I challenge Paul Martin to state unequivocally that he would not form a coalition with the NDP.”

Was in response to Paul Martin suggesting a coalition between Conservatives and the Bloq would damage Canada. Harper has ruled this scenario out and now wishes the Prime Minister to do the same, simply because

a Liberal coalition with the NDP could stifle a governments ability to govern effectively and likely scare away new jobs and investment in Canada.

In a minority situation, would this be more or less damaging to Canada than a Conservative, Bloq agreement in the house on specific issues?

The Liberals already have a nationalist wing within the party that puts Quebecs interests first. Why the hell is it hurting Canada if the Conservatives do it in open with the Bloq? Oh ya Liberals don't like openess.

Show me one viscious attack by Harper so I can strip away the spin and show how maplesyrup is really sap.

[maplesyrup]

actuallt it was a quote from the article:

In an unusually savage attack on the NDP, Mr. Harper said

[Moderate Centrist]

Loose Canon is not really the right term for Harper as it suggests someone who is unpredictable.

Harper has no business in federal politics. He belongs strictly in the relm of provincial politics which unfortunately for him is dominated by Klein.

The man has zero personality and history of anti-Canadian sentiment. Harper is not so much pro-western as pro-Albertan and he certainly doesn't speak for all Albertans.

As I've stated in other threads the Alliance party in all its' guises is a doomed project. It will never form a federal government in this county as it's goals are strictly in the interests of right wing thinking.

The new conservative party has nothing to do with the roots of the old Tory party.

The Liberals have the middle. No matter how sick people get of them they're not going to vote them out for a one track party like the Alliance/Conservatives.

One track - namely that Canada is bad Alberta is good.

I would go one step beyond Harper - the other potential leaders are even worse.

I think we'll see the fortunes of the "new" Conservative party sink even further in the next election. These guys have been at it now for over 15 years and have peaked.

The Reform and Alliance parties have been consistently rejected as the governing party.

Names changes do not a party make.

[Goldie]

The Alliance was rewarded with over 1 million votes in Ontario in 2000 and that was without any high profile Ontario candidates. This does not include the Conservative numbers.

The Liberals did not do as well as that in the west with high profile western candidates.

By your own arguement then the Liberals are Ontario centrist and this gives them legitimacy over the now merged entities that received 37% of the vote in Ontario.

The Alliance had and has strong support in Ontario, much more than the Liberals do in Alberta.

On personality I would say he is the opposite of Day and isn't this supposed to be a good thing. A shy, introverted, intelligent, manager type.

Wow, I guess no leader from the west is worthy of being in federal politics because Ontario will surely find fault some how. You won't hear the actual reason of dislike just some vague excuse, pro-this, anti-that, hidden agenda.

It would be refreshing if you just came out of the closet and admitted to being prejudiced towards the west.

Oh ya, a new logo does not a new government make.

[maplesyrup]

I live in the West.

[Goldie]

I was reading Kinsellas latest musings and can anybody shed some light on what he is refering to on March 18.

Regarding Stephen Harper.

http://www.warrenkinsella.com/musings.htm

[maplesyrup]

I think that he must have written someting about Stephen in the past.

It might have been discussed on CTV last nite with Mike Duffy.

I have edited this post.

Apparently what was dicussed on CTV was not related to something Kinsella wrote - see below.

[Goldie]

I'm still in shock over the Globes endorsement of Harper for leader.

Could it be true of a Kinsella retraction in the same week.

[maplesyrup]

We live in interesting times.

[maplesyrup]

Actually here is another twist to this story that apparently came from the Toronto Star:

"Late yesterday, Mike Pal, a 21-year-old University of Calgary political science student, said he and a large network of friends and party supporters launched a Web site attacking Harper because they feared a Harper victory would further divide, not unite, the party.

"Pal said the group, which calls itself Grassroots Conservatives, represents hundreds of people, but is not linked to any of Harper's rival campaigns."

http://www.torontostar.com/NASApp/cs/Conte...ol=968350116467

[Moderate Centrist]

"On personality I would say he is the opposite of Day and isn't this supposed to be a good thing. A shy, introverted, intelligent, manager type."

Goldie

Shy and introverted don't get you very far in politics. Intelligent? I think Harper is an intelligent man but it doesn't really shine through in any of the interviews I've seen.

For example the recent war in Iraq. He suggested we follow American policy for no other reason than to follow American policy - even with the majority of the country and the world against it.

Harper comes across more as backroom accountant than a true manager.

"I guess no leader from the west is worthy of being in federal politics because Ontario will surely find fault some how. You won't hear the actual reason of dislike just some vague excuse, pro-this, anti-that, hidden agenda. "

Goldie

What about Joe Clark, John Deifenbaker and Tommy Douglas to name a few. Were they not from the west?

I don't believe Harper and the Alliance/Conservatives have ever had a hidden agenda.

In fact it's been quite clear - pro-death penalty, pro-prisons, pro-privitization, submissive to American wishes, anti-Quebec, slanderous to Atlantic Canadians, petty in blaming their rejection on the voters and finally a clear cut drive to put Alberta first, isolate it from the rest of the country and associate with notions of separatism.

"It would be refreshing if you just came out of the closet and admitted to being prejudiced towards the west."

Goldie

I have nothing against the west at all. That's another strike against the Alliance - spreading the notion of western alienation.

I'm not a fan. Period.

[Goldie]

In fact it's been quite clear - pro-death penalty, pro-prisons, pro-privitization, submissive to American wishes, anti-Quebec, slanderous to Atlantic Canadians, petty in blaming their rejection on the voters and finally a clear cut drive to put Alberta first, isolate it from the rest of the country and associate with notions of separatism.

This is exactly what I mean, no specifics just general statements. Please be specific and I'm sure you'll find most of these grievances are false and outside of context.

[maplesyrup]

harper has a secret agenda or else he would debate Layton. Does not look good on him.

[August1991]

On personality I would say he is the opposite of Day and isn't this supposed to be a good thing. A shy, introverted, intelligent, manager type.

Wow, I guess no leader from the west is worthy of being in federal politics because Ontario will surely find fault some how. You won't hear the actual reason of dislike just some vague excuse, pro-this, anti-that, hidden agenda.

It would be refreshing if you just came out of the closet and admitted to being prejudiced towards the west.

I read the G&M editorial which endorses Harper by default.

Kinsella? I'll take it at face value that he didn't like the way his words were being used. (Sorry, I don't know Kinsella well - can someone inform me?)

But I think you're right Goldie. Ultimately, Ontario voters are uncomfortable with Harper and I think it's because he's a Westerner.

(In Quebec, the question is moot and in the Maritimes voting is traditional.)

I saw the "firewall" quote and the "culture of defeat" quote. In both cases, I saw nothing wrong. They were comments along the lines of "Why should I sell your wheat?" (Don't get me wrong: Harper is no Trudeau.) IMV, Harper was right to say what he said.

I think Ontario voters are looking for an alternative to the Liberals. They don't know Harper at all but are afraid he's a born-again American. If he gets the leadership, it will be his election to win. He'll have to campaign and present his true colours. What are they, really?

Ontario voters may well be ready to accept an honest English speaking voice from the West. But they'll have to feel "sort of" comfortable with the guy.

One thing to consider if Harper makes PM, the Tory caucus will come mostly from Ontario. Stronach, Clement may will be in the Cabinet. I think Ontario voters will clue into that fact.

[Moderate Centrist]

"This is exactly what I mean, no specifics just general statements"

Goldie

Craig Chandler (PC/Alliance) during Tory leadership debate last year in which I attended:

"We must bring back the death penalty"

During the same debate he referred to Quebec separatists as "traitors".

He was booed by many in the audience.

Stephen Harper

"His militant stand on provincial rights also raised a few eyebrows -- he urged the Alberta premier to build a "firewall" around the province to keep the tentacles of federal bureaucracy from gaining a choke hold on the province."

http://www.cbc.ca/checkup/archive/2002/intro020324.html

"Last May, Harper said he thought Atlantic Canada was hampered economically and politically by "a culture of defeat," a comment that infuriated politicians and people throughout the region. "

Source http://www.aims.ca/Media/2002/prsep2002.htm

I'll leave it at this for now.

Regardless of weather Harper's comments are right or wrong if he wants to lead the country he hasn't done enough to build bridges. He belongs in provincial politics.

[willy]

Moderate Centrist:

Some people in all nationalist parties would go for the death penalty.

Parties that stand for breaking up the country are traitors.

Harper has positions and you might not like them, but you don't have to vote for him. I am glad he is in federal politics because it gives me someone to vote for.

I am not a socialist so I can’t vote NDP.

I believe that the person I vote for will actually attempt to do what they say, so I can’t vote liberal.

Harper will do what he says and it will make this a better country.

How is being for prisons a bad thing? Are you suggesting we don't put rapists, murders and thieves in jail and leave them there a while? I guess punishment is not politically correct.

[Goldie]

I would go further than Harper and suggest a culture of defeat exists in aboriginal cummunties and some farming communties and I'm sure others can point out more.

To state a fact of life is not blameworthy and hardly a reason not to support Harper. To address a problem you must first admit there is one. Liberals won't look at the problem because they would have to admit they helped create it.

This leads us directly into provincial jurisdiction and a firewall. If Harper said, build a firewall around the Atlantic fisheries to protect it from federal mismanagement, he would be a hero out there. Because he said it about Alberta, he is a goat, I don't think so.

Allow me to put what Harper said into Liberalese

For generations the federal government has taken the spirit of a once great community and replaced it with a culture of defeat. (culture of defeat)

The federal government has become so layered and bloated it now threatens, not just provincial rights and responsibilities but those of cities and individuals too.(firewall)

Many political leaders have said things that are insulting to groups, regions, individuals,ect. It wasn't enough to keep them from federal politics. Trudeau was the worst and Cretien a close second. I'm not buying the "Well, Harper has baggage 'cause he said this and that."

On supporting the Iraq war and backing the US. What complete hypocracy from the centre left. As if the so called right has to teach them a little something about solidarity. You wanna break a company and its CEO, all Unions are called upon to boycot, pester, and picket. No problem as long as it advances your own personal station.

Want to take out an obvious tyrant and make sure he has no weapons that might find their way to Montreal(God forbid) and free a people in the process. No we won't get behind that in solidarity. This still bugs the hell out of me because of the double standard.

[Dennis]

What's with the maplesyrup attack campaign on Stephen Harper?

I thought this was a political discussion site, not the meeting place of backroom politicos and spin-meisters.

[Moderate Centrist]

Hello All,

I don't believe in sacred cows and I think anything should be open for comment. However Harpers wording and lack of personality is what really turns people off.

A better politician could easily have said the same things and not pissed off anybody.

"How is being for prisons a bad thing? Are you suggesting we don't put rapists, murders and thieves in jail and leave them there a while? I guess punishment is not politically correct. "

Willy

I should have been more clear. I was referring to Stockwell Day's proposal that the best way to fight crime was to build more prisons at enourmous expense to the public.

The prison system plays an essential part of our criminal justice system. However it is only a PART of the system.

Add to this the Alliance party seems to have a morbid fascination with crime and trying to suggest our laws are inadequate.

"If Harper said, build a firewall around the Atlantic fisheries to protect it from federal mismanagement, he would be a hero out there. Because he said it about Alberta, he is a goat, I don't think so."

Goldie

Yes he would be a hero out there... and just as wrong. The point being Harper didn't say it about the Atlantic provinces, or Manitoba or British Columbia. He said it about Alberta and this guy gives the distint impression of concern only with issues that affect Alberta.

He has also leant his ear to the cause of Alberta separatism rather than condemning it.

Bottom line is that I don't think Harper would make a good Prime Minister and a lot of people don't like him. My reasoning may differ from yours but it's not illegitimate.

On the war on Iraq - I don't agree with Harper's position and neither did most of the country.

Personally I say leave Saddam alone - the Devil you know theory.

It's tough luck for the Iraqis living under him but that's their problem.

On the weapons of mass destruction ... so far we were right on that one.

[Goldie]

by Stephen Harper

The Moncton Times and Transcript

February 20, 2004

I count myself lucky to be one of the millions of Canadians whose roots in this country extend deep into Atlantic Canada. My grandparents' generation, and generations before it, reflected this region's emphasis on hard work, common sense, and strong community spirit. Unfortunately, circumstances in Atlantic Canada have resulted in people of this region to uprooting themselves, in search of greater opportunity.

For the fact of the matter is that the people of this region have had their potential suppressed by federal government policy that is more interested in the political status quo than it is in unleashing the potential of Atlantic Canada and its people. Decades of misguided federal government programs have held back Atlantic Canada. Now is the time to acknowledge that these largely Liberal policies have failed.

Not Alberta centric and well put.