Coalition Destructing Already

[betsy]

After the interview of Justin Trudeau, a Liberal backbencher (sorry did not get his name) who apparently worked with Pierre Trudeau has said on Mike Duffy: "After hearing Justin describe the Bloc as a "progressive party". I am sure that his father is rolling in his grave."

This backbencher said that just before he went on the show with Duffy he called 7 other Liberal backbenchers (who wish to remain un-identified). Out of those 7, 6 were totally against and disgusted with the Coalition, and one was sort of neutral.

This man said: Canada comes first. The party only comes second.

Is there possibility of floor crossings?

Those who seriously consider having a good political career should consider standing up for Canada now on the ground of VALUES and PRINCIPLES! If I am a Liberal MP, now is the time to stand out in history! Break ranks for the sake of Canada.

The talk show radio hosts from Calgary, Toronto and Vancouver are flooded with angry callers. They all said that this is the first time they ever got this so many angry callers. And they say that these are real people....not partisan hacks!

They all say that "this coalition could still be killed!"

[Shakeyhands]

Betsy, I realize how this whole thing makes you conservative backers feel, I would feel the same way if things were the other way around.

Please realize that the coalition was agreed to by the other parties because they are truely concerned aout what the economic downturn is going to do to our country, not because of party funding via votes, that is the great red herring in all of this. Well, that or it being undemocratic.

Political stability with the Bloc backing the interest of Canadians as a whole for the duration, imagine. Getting this country in the right space to weather the storm. perhpas if the surplus hadn't been frittered away, on stupidity like a 2% consumer tax cut, maybe we wouldn't be here.

Everyone is a little nervous about this whole thing, but we must put the best interests of the electorate ahead of political oneupmanship. We must realize that now is the time to make sure we get through this ahead of our own desires to "destroy the enemy"

If Mr Harper had followed his own advice, we wouldn't be here.

[betsy]

Betsy, I realize how this whole thing makes you conservative backers feel, I would feel the same way if things were the other way around.

Please realize that the coalition was agreed to by the other parties because they are truely concerned aout what the economic downturn is going to do to our country, not because of party funding via votes, that is the great red herring in all of this. Well, that or it being undemocratic.

Political stability with the Bloc backing the interest of Canadians as a whole for the duration, imagine. Getting this country in the right space to weather the storm. perhpas if the surplus hadn't been frittered away, on stupidity like a 2% consumer tax cut, maybe we wouldn't be here.

Everyone is a little nervous about this whole thing, but we must put the best interests of the electorate ahead of political oneupmanship. We must realize that now is the time to make sure we get through this ahead of our own desires to "destroy the enemy"

If Mr Harper had followed his own advice, we wouldn't be here.

If it was only a coalition between the Liberals and NDP, the uproar would not have been so great I think.

But having a seperatist Party prop up this coalition is an unprecedented move. Diuceppe had stated yesterday that he did this for the interest of a sovereign Quebec. "The Bloc has the other two parties by their balls," that's the statement of two journalists on TV (Greg Weston and Joel Bellevance).

Bellevance said that $800 million dollars in total had already been promised to Diuceppe (first and second budget), being one of his demands. Parizeau is getting into this bed as well....a Quebec newspaper will have this article today.

That, plus the economic crisis we're in.

I agree with you that now is not the time to get rid of enemies. Personal feelings should be set aside.

That's why the parties should let the government bring out its budget in January. Hear the budget first.

The way the coalition had played out suggests the two federal parties (Liberal and NDP) are driven by self-interest. To the point of selling out the rest of Canada to the Separatist. Their own credibility and integrity is now being questioned.

How can a coalition that has sown the distrust of half the population (if not majority) govern efficiently in this time of crisis....most especially when the people are seeking to be led and reassured in the coming time of hardships?

To put the people at rest, and since Dion had dramatically gone back on his election promise that there would be no coalition.....then they should all agree to let the people decide.

$300 million is nothing when it comes to the future of this country.

I want an election!

Let the people decide!

Edited December 3, 2008 by betsy

[White Doors]

Believe it.

Call in shows are being flooded with angry callers across the country.

Rallies are planned. People are upset. Normal people that don't come to MLW to post.

I told everyone on here that this is a HUGE mistake for the Liberals and a win-win for Harper, if not for the very short term, it is a HUGE win for the CPC over the medium and long term. The Liberals have taken away one of their most compelling reasons for existence for this crass political ploy.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2008/...7607031-cp.html

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...1202?hub=Canada

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...me=&no_ads=

If this keeps up, the Liberals will be backing down poste haste

[betsy]

The three coalition parties differ drastically in their ideology. With all three of them trying to make concessions with one another....specially with the Separatist Party that's propping them up....surely, any decisions they'll make will never center around the best interest of Canada.

[betsy]

Believe it.

Call in shows are being flooded with angry callers across the country.

Rallies are planned. People are upset. Normal people that don't come to MLW to post.

If this keeps up, the Liberals will be backing down poste haste

You should see the anger in the faces of the talk radio hosts yesterday on MDuffy! They say that this is HUGE! And that it is REAL!

[ThatGuy]

The Bloc propped the tories up for 2 years. Funny how that isn't mentioned much.

[Alta4ever]

Political stability with the Bloc backing the interest of Canadians as a whole for the duration, imagine. Getting this country in the right space to weather the storm. perhpas if the surplus hadn't been frittered away, on stupidity like a 2% consumer tax cut, maybe we wouldn't be here.

The country is in the right place to weather the storm. Its just too bad you are too follsih to recognizes that. This Coalition was never about the economy, if it was they wouldn't have been planningit from election night. This is about power pure and simple.

[ToadBrother]

But having a seperatist Party prop up this coalition is an unprecedented move. Diuceppe had stated yesterday that he did this for the interest of a sovereign Quebec. "The Bloc has the other two parties by their balls," that's the statement of two journalists on TV (Greg Weston and Joel Bellevance).

Bellevance said that $800 million dollars in total had already been promised to Diuceppe (first and second budget), being one of his demands. Parizeau is getting into this bed as well....a Quebec newspaper will have this article today.

What do you suppose Duceppe's justification would have been if he had got into bed with the Tories in 2004?

Let's face it, whoever is running the show right now is going to have to deal with the Bloc. If it's wrong for this coalition to do so, then it's been wrong for the Tories to do so.

This is the reality of the current political situation in Canada. Let's face it, the Bloc is the Eastern version of what Reform was in the west, founded by disaffected Tories. The real problem is not this coalition, it's that the job of uniting the right has not been completed.

[ToadBrother]

The country is in the right place to weather the storm. Its just too bad you are too follsih to recognizes that. This Coalition was never about the economy, if it was they wouldn't have been planningit from election night. This is about power pure and simple.

Politics is always about power. They're not suggesting anything that Harper didn't suggest four years ago.

Besides, just how long did the Conservatives think they could keep kicking the opposition in the nether parts before it blew up? That's the question, it appears, that many Conservatives are asking. The knives are being drawn now over the unnecessary confrontational behavior of Harper.

[Alta4ever]

Politics is always about power. They're not suggesting anything that Harper didn't suggest four years ago.

Besides, just how long did the Conservatives think they could keep kicking the opposition in the nether parts before it blew up? That's the question, it appears, that many Conservatives are asking. The knives are being drawn now over the unnecessary confrontational behavior of Harper.

Just what do you think will be left of the caolition after this poll after poll shows that Canadians are more than 60% against this. The hidden agenda of the left has now been exposed.

[madmax]

This backbencher said that just before he went on the show with Duffy he called 7 other Liberal backbenchers (who wish to remain un-identified). Out of those 7, 6 were totally against and disgusted with the Coalition, and one was sort of neutral.

This man said: Canada comes first. The party only comes second.

Is there possibility of floor crossings?

If there were LPC members crossing the floor, we would have heard it by now. Liberal cracks are huge, and the fact that they have managed to do this, would suggest that the LPC are much strong then the CPC propoganda is highlighting.

The fact that the longest serving conservative and now sitting independent is not backing the CPC is telling. You would think he would be easy pickings.

You will have to do better then this Betsy, for anyone to believe you, let alone take you seriously.

[segnosaur]

Please realize that the coalition was agreed to by the other parties because they are truely concerned aout what the economic downturn is going to do to our country, not because of party funding via votes, that is the great red herring in all of this.

So, what you're saying is that you actually trust that the leaders of the Liberals/NDP weren't in it to protect themselves over the funding issue.

Tell me, what exactly have the Liberals done to establish such a trust in you? After all, Dion did state during the election that he wouldn't form a coalition.

Hey, if you want to claim Harper has made mistakes or gone back on his word, fine... I'm sure he had. But don't be a hypocrite about it.

Political stability with the Bloc backing the interest of Canadians as a whole for the duration, imagine.

First of all, you're assuming that such a coaltion would actually lead to short term stability. Yes, the Bloc has promised to support the coaltion for a certain length of time, but in reality, there's not much that's preventing them from withdrawing their support. Not to mention the additional instability caused by any outrage over this issue from the electorate.

Secondly, even if it did provide some short term stability, it may have a negative long-term impact. If the actions of the Bloc end up improving the fortunes of the separatists through any 'deals' that are made, then we may be trading a short period of stability now for a long-term period of even more problems.

Getting this country in the right space to weather the storm. perhpas if the surplus hadn't been frittered away, on stupidity like a 2% consumer tax cut, maybe we wouldn't be here.

First of all, what exactly do you think the government should do? Spend money? Where do you think that money will come from? Higher taxes? (That may actually cause more harm than good, since people will have less money to spend.) Increased debt? Canada doesn't have the same problems that other countries do... our banking system is more stable than that in the U.S., and our housing market doesn't have the same problem with subprime mortgages. Other than perhaps investing in useful public works infrastructure, I can't think of too many benefits that would come from increased spending.

You complain about the surplus being 'frittered away' on a consumer tax cut. Yet cutting consumer taxes is actually a good thing to do. One problem that we do have is the problem of reduced market confidence. Encouraging sales (especially on high-value items) will probably be more beneficial than simply spending money just for the sake of spending money.

Lastly, I find it ironic that you'd suggest the suplus has been 'frittered away', yet you support the formation of a coaltion that, last I heard, plans to spend BILLIONS on their 'stimulous package'. Even if the GST were still at 7%, such actions would probably end up putting us into deficite anyways.

Everyone is a little nervous about this whole thing, but we must put the best interests of the electorate ahead of political oneupmanship.

You are under the mistaken assumption that:

- The actions of the conservatives are 'political oneupmanship' whereas the actions of the Liberals/NDP are not.

- That the formation of the coaltion is actually in the 'best interests' of the electorate

[capricorn]

The knives are being drawn now over the unnecessary confrontational behavior of Harper.

I thought it was about Harper not responding to the urgent financial worldwide crisis that's about to swallow us up.

[White Doors]

The Bloc propped the tories up for 2 years. Funny how that isn't mentioned much.

How do you figure that?

[segnosaur]

The Bloc propped the tories up for 2 years. Funny how that isn't mentioned much.

Not really.

Most of the success the minority conservative government had in surving for 2 years was due to the Liberals abstaining from certain key votes.

[William Ashley]

What uproad

99% is engineered by conservative ads to get a response from the sheep, that and party members who can't accept their impotence and are inanely and in an unbalanced way pathetically trying to salvage something that will simply fail.

They are damaging the canadian economy and wasting money in the process.

[madmax]

Pot meet kettle....Kettle meet pot.

The “Three Amigos,” the media dubbed, worked on other reforms as well. Gilles Duceppe wanted all the changes we had agreed upon to be put forward in an amendment to the Speech from the Throne. As the most experienced Opposition leader, he clearly wanted to move into the driver’s seat, and successfully did so for the first couple of meetings. Forcing the Liberals to accept our recommendations as an amendment to the speech from the throne amounted to a game of parliamentary “chicken.” If the government refused, Mr. Duceppe pointed out, the three parties had enough votes to ensure its defeat. Waiting outside Mr. Harper’s office for our meeting to begin, I asked Mr. Duceppe what he thought would happen if the prime minister refused to accept such an ultimatum. He replied that a government defeat so soon after a general election meant the Governor General would then have to turn “to one of us” to form a government. We both knew that meant Stephen Harper and his Conservatives. I asked Mr. Duceppe if he could accept such an eventuality. He was not only clear that he could, but he would.

Stephen Harper, while less inclined to brinksmanship, nevertheless warmed to the seduction of Mr. Duceppe’s strategy. Under this scenario, Mr. Harper would become prime minister in an informal alliance with the Bloc. Unthinkable? Not to either Mr. Harper or Mr. Duceppe. The Bloc leader was willing to strategize for Stephen Harper to become prime minister, despite the Conservatives’ many negative policies - policies completely contrary to the desires and values of most Quebecers. While shocked, I could not say I was surprised.

Mr. Duceppe and the Bloc would have been key players in any Harper coalition,

Edited December 3, 2008 by madmax

[jdobbin]

If it was only a coalition between the Liberals and NDP, the uproar would not have been so great I think.

But your party tried the same thing in 2000 and 2004.

[Argus]

Betsy, I realize how this whole thing makes you conservative backers feel, I would feel the same way if things were the other way around.

Please realize that the coalition was agreed to by the other parties because they are truely concerned aout what the economic downturn is going to do to our country,

Wow. I guess you were first in line when the kool-aid was handed out, eh?

[capricorn]

Uh oh! I think this Lib MP will get his knuckles rapped.

Frank Valeriote does not favour a coalition government and instead hopes Prime Minister Stephen Harper can work toward rescuing the Canadian economy.

“I believe in working toward a solution, not working toward a coalition,” Guelph’s Liberal MP said Wednesday.

http://news.guelphmercury.com/News/Breakin.../article/411713

[Shakeyhands]

If it was only a coalition between the Liberals and NDP, the uproar would not have been so great I think.

But having a seperatist Party prop up this coalition is an unprecedented move. Diuceppe had stated yesterday that he did this for the interest of a sovereign Quebec. "The Bloc has the other two parties by their balls," that's the statement of two journalists on TV (Greg Weston and Joel Bellevance).

Bellevance said that $800 million dollars in total had already been promised to Diuceppe (first and second budget), being one of his demands. Parizeau is getting into this bed as well....a Quebec newspaper will have this article today.

That, plus the economic crisis we're in.

I agree with you that now is not the time to get rid of enemies. Personal feelings should be set aside.

That's why the parties should let the government bring out its budget in January. Hear the budget first.

The way the coalition had played out suggests the two federal parties (Liberal and NDP) are driven by self-interest. To the point of selling out the rest of Canada to the Separatist. Their own credibility and integrity is now being questioned.

How can a coalition that has sown the distrust of half the population (if not majority) govern efficiently in this time of crisis....most especially when the people are seeking to be led and reassured in the coming time of hardships?

To put the people at rest, and since Dion had dramatically gone back on his election promise that there would be no coalition.....then they should all agree to let the people decide.

$300 million is nothing when it comes to the future of this country.

I want an election!

Let the people decide!

I don't want more spent on another election so soon. And, the Bloc is not part of the coalition.

[Alta4ever]

Sounds like the first Liberal MP is breaking Ranks. Are we seeing the beginings of a break away caucus?

Breaking: 1st LPC MP breaks ranks against coalition

Frank Valeriote

Wednesday, December 03, 2008

Guelph Liberal MP: "I believe in working toward a solution, not working toward a coalition"

More cracks in the coalition. The Guelph Mercury is reporting that Guelph Liberal MP Frank Valeriote has come out against his party's decision to form a coalition with the NDP/Bloc and says he would rather allow Harper to figure things out. Here's the story:

Quote:

Frank Valeriote does not favour a coalition government and instead hopes Prime Minister Stephen Harper can work toward rescuing the Canadian economy.

“I believe in working toward a solution, not working toward a coalition,” Guelph’s Liberal MP said Wednesday.

Valeriote added he does not believe a Liberal-NDP coalition, with support from the Bloc Quebecois, will unseat the Tories.

“I have given no thought to that,” Valeriote said when asked whether he saw himself in a cabinet role under such an arrangement. “I am not, frankly, anticipating moving into government.”

The Guelph Mercury promises there will be more tomorrow.

http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2...-liberal-p.html

[blueblood]

I don't want more spent on another election so soon. And, the Bloc is not part of the coalition.

I don't want billions wasted on the auto industry either. We can't always get our way.

[madmax]

Uh oh! I think this Lib MP will get his knuckles rapped.

http://news.guelphmercury.com/News/Breakin.../article/411713

And maybe a spanking. He may like being spanked, if it comes with a cushy cabinet seat .... nudge nudge, wink wink.....