Separation vs. Sovereignty

[JerrySeinfeld]

Quebec is like a divorced unfaithful partner who demands support payments while she continues to betray you at a distance. Quebec is seperate and is offically seperated from Canada - now get on with it and file suit against this paristic entity..and cut off all support - If she decides to come home and be part of the family again..we can talk...in the mean time let her go to her father FRANCE...and ask for spare change. She was never loyal. Quebec should have been "Flesh of my flesh, bone of my bone - forsaking all others" Quebec never put her husband first..she was always stuck on dad...The marriage failed because of this immaturity on the part of this french bride.

OLEG you are a unique dude, but in this case I must say your post is bang on.

Personally, though, I wouldn't give her the option to return.

[blueblood]

OLEG you are a unique dude, but in this case I must say your post is bang on.

Personally, though, I wouldn't give her the option to return.

Town drunks are unique dudes too.

Edited December 8, 2008 by blueblood

[Oleg Bach]

OLEG you are a unique dude, but in this case I must say your post is bang on.

Personally, though, I wouldn't give her the option to return.

Like a wise fighter - always give the enemy a way of escape. If you don't you have a protracted eternal war. With Quebec - I hate to say it and display emotional weakness - I love her and always will - she can come home when ever she wants...no strings attatched and total respect and freedom is guarenteed. Quebec has always been family and the marriage is old and tried and true..we got this far - one indicretion must be forgiven.... To put in in human terms - My youngest son had his first love cheat on him...He was devestated and could not be comforted - all of his "friends" attempted to instill hate in him for the young duped woman...Instead he was a man and forgave - and the young woman likes the idea that she is now under his control....Quebec might respect us more if we dominated the little mischievious witch a bit... Nothing abusive and no "I told you so." stuff. Once you love you never stop - and no way in hell or heaven will Canada ever stop loving that hot and passionate French wife QUEBEC!

[NanaimoConservative]

Canada without Quebec would be a far more conservative nation. It was Quebec that blocked our country from having the conservative majority it deserves.

Canada doesn't need Quebec. The province is an anchor around our neck. More than 97% of the Canadian population that live outside of Quebec are being discriminated against because of our bilingualism policies. All they do is threaten their citizens if there isn't french on their signs. Also the french letters better be bigger than the English letters! They cost us a fortune to have to have everything written up in two languages. When we make laws for Canada we have to run them by Quebec and may have to change them a little to make Quebec happy so we then have a law for Canada and special version just for Quebec.

Also I saw some good points about the exodus of some of it's population making it even smaller. And don't even think the native population isn't going to be causing a huge headache for the new independent nation. Although I have a feeling Quebec would just say too bad and would not make any deals af any kind with natives.

[Smallc]

Canada without Quebec would be a far more conservative nation. It was Quebec that blocked our country from having the conservative majority it deserves.

Canada doesn't need Quebec. The province is an anchor around our neck. More than 97% of the Canadian population that live outside of Quebec are being discriminated against because of our bilingualism policies. All they do is threaten their citizens if there isn't french on their signs. Also the french letters better be bigger than the English letters! They cost us a fortune to have to have everything written up in two languages. When we make laws for Canada we have to run them by Quebec and may have to change them a little to make Quebec happy so we then have a law for Canada and special version just for Quebec.

The post above displays why I don't want a Conservative majority...one that certainly doesn't seem deserved based on the Prime Minister and his tendency towards terminological inexactitude.

Edited December 24, 2008 by Smallc

[eyeball]

Canada without Quebec would be a far more conservative nation.

I sure hope Quebec stays then, the notion of a more conservative never mind FAR more conservative Canada makes me ill. Its way way far too conservative as it is already.

I think I'd probably have to take up arms, either to force Quebec to stay or for BC to leave too.

Edited December 24, 2008 by eyeball

[fellowtraveller]

Make no mistake about it, while the LPQ may not be a separatist party like ADQ and the PQ, they still hold a dualist view of Canada.

They would be crazy not to, the long time provincial strategy of divide and conquer at the federal level has been spectacularly successful for Quebec for decades.

As a result, we now have every province/region noting that success and trying to outgreed Quebec. Why wouldn't they, if you want the gravy train to stop in your province you have to play hardball.

Something of a sad state of affairs IMO.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

They would be crazy not to, the long time provincial strategy of divide and conquer at the federal level has been spectacularly successful for Quebec for decades.

As a result, we now have every province/region noting that success and trying to outgreed Quebec. Why wouldn't they, if you want the gravy train to stop in your province you have to play hardball.

Something of a sad state of affairs IMO.

Actually it works well for myself as well. You see, I am an Albertan who is a separatist. The opposition alliance would serve my purposes very well. I am sure that the Coalition would put forth a carbon tax, and that little gem would drive my fellow citizens absolutely crazy. It rings of NEP II, and the consequences of NEP I were a harsh lesson for us. A move in that direction would place many more Alberta citizens against the rest of Canada.

[fellowtraveller]

Actually it works well for myself as well. You see, I am an Albertan who is a separatist. The opposition alliance would serve my purposes very well. I am sure that the Coalition would put forth a carbon tax, and that little gem would drive my fellow citizens absolutely crazy. It rings of NEP II, and the consequences of NEP I were a harsh lesson for us. A move in that direction would place many more Alberta citizens against the rest of Canada.

we both know that Alberta separatism is a myth, and supported by very few. Only one of us will acknowledge that reality.

Creds: I'm born, raised and currently reside in AB.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

It is not a myth, it is a suppressed desire. Albertans tend to be a little more independent than other Canadians. We seek to do things on our own. Since you are from here, you will know this.

Separatism in Alberta is not a dead issue, it will come to light with the onset of NEP2.

[eyeball]

Separatism in Alberta is not a dead issue, it will come to light with the onset of NEP2.

In light of Newfoundland's support of Danny William's this is hard to argue with. Individual Canadians, perhaps Albertan's more than others, are definitely in a mood to ask, what's in it for me?

[Smallc]

Separatism in Alberta is not a dead issue, it will come to light with the onset of NEP2.

Given the current price of oil, that would make little sense.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Given the current price of oil, that would make little sense.

What does the price of oil have to do with anything?

[Smallc]

What does the price of oil have to do with anything?

The NEP2 (sic) wouldn't make any money whatsoever. It would cause the shutdown of production, which would completely defeat its purpose. Its not going to happen anyway. We have no need for another wealth transfer as the Equalization program already has any province that can't meet fiscal capacity covered.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

NEP2 is a carbon tax! Bring that dastardly tax into reality and Alberta gets beat with a stick. The hydro provinces get a break, but not here, we are coal based for electricity production.

Alberta citizens are already shouldering the largest burden in terms of equalization costs per capita, include an "Alberta" tax based on carbon production and our citizens will be heard in Ottawa all the way from Alberta without the need for any sort of amplification.

[Smallc]

NEP2 is a carbon tax!

Who is now talking about a carbon tax?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The Liberals, the NDP and the Bloc all favour such an abomination.

[Smallc]

The Liberals, the NDP and the Bloc all favour such an abomination.

The Liberals did, but don't now and the NDP and the Bloc never did. The NDP and Bloc support the same thing as the Conservatives say that they do.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The Liberals did, but don't now and the NDP and the Bloc never did. The NDP and Bloc support the same thing as the Conservatives say that they do.

Really?

http://www.ndp.ca/platform/environment/aplanthatwillwork

Implement our clean air and fighting climate change program:

* Make big polluters pay. We will put a price on carbon through a "cap-and-trade" carbon pricing system which establishes hard limits on pollution and a tough charge on polluters who exceed the limits.

* All revenue will be applied to environmental solutions.

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/feat...30-bddc41e05b64

The Bloc Québécois

The sovereignist party is pushing for a cap-and-trade system to be implemented as soon as possible with stringent targets for industry.

Like the other opposition parties, the Bloc also supports the Kyoto Protocol and stringent greenhouse-gas emission targets for Canada to achieve in short, medium and long term.

Bloc leader Gilles Duceppe said he would examine the Liberal "green shift" carbon tax proposal in detail before deciding whether or not his party should support it.

it sounds to me like these folks are hair splitting but also support the carbon tax concept under a different name.

[Smallc]

The Conservative Record

Introduced a balanced, achievable plan to reduce Canada’s greenhouse gas emissions 20% by 2020 and cut air pollution in half by 2015. In this plan:

*For the first time ever, industry will be forced by law to meet tough emission reduction targets; and

* National caps for industrial emissions of four air pollutants commonly associated with smog and acid rain will be introduced.

http://www.conservative.ca/EN/4739/78192

http://www.reuters.com/article/environment...E4AI70120081119

Conservatives support targets and cap and trade. Cap and trade isn't a carbon tax.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Of course not, and what happened to the Jews wasn't genocide.

[Smallc]

Sorry, but I'm not seeing the parallel.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The Nazis denied the holocaust was planned, they lied. The governments deny that a cap and trade system isn't a carbon tax, they are lying.

[Smallc]

The Nazis denied the holocaust was planned, they lied. The governments deny that a cap and trade system isn't a carbon tax, they are lying.

They deny it because its not a carbon tax. A carbon tax is government driven. Cap and trade is privately driven (its a market). If you want to follow your line of reasoning though, it seems that all parties support a carbon tax.

Edited December 28, 2008 by Smallc

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Cap and trade; pollution levels set by governments then excess amounts must be purchased from another company with a smaller carbon footprint. Company A is taxed by company B, provided B has a carbon tax credit for sale.

In the case of Alberta, with coal fired plants and the oilsands development there will be much buying from one company to the next. Of course the credits for sale will have to be bought from other provinces. So it becomes an Alberta business tax.

Carbon Tax; Liberal greenshift concept has pollution taxed and paid to government to reduce poverty and fund "green technology"

Either way it will hit my province hard. In either instance the consumer is going to have to pickup the tab because business will simply add the cost to the net price of the products.

Too bad you can't see the folly of these approaches to a problem that cannot be solved. Start down this path and you will end up with an international carbon tax credit market in short order.