Why Dion as coalition leader?

[Argus]

As for why the NDP and BQ and the remainder of the LPC allowed him to be the leader, my guess is that they feel about the same about Dion: they know he's a loser. They know he's damaged goods, they know he's got absolutely no authority, no chance of hanging onto this job past the leadership convention.

Fro the perspective of the NDP and BQ Dion is an ideal leader. He and the LPC will take the heat, and more importantly, the LPC is WEAK with a capital W. Either Layton or Duceppe will be able to push Dion around all they want. They're not on the verge of bankruptcy, and for the most part, it will be the Liberals who take the heat for the failure of a new government. Layton or Duceppe can pull the plug in three months, saying it was Dion's intransigance which led to the downfall, and can hope to come out of an election relatively unscathed. The Liberals, on the other hand, could be slaughtered. That means both Dion, and his successor, will have to be good little boys and do what the other two tell them - or else.

I also suspect the NDP and BQ believe that Dion being interim PM will do harm to the LPC. I think they probably believe that Canadians who resent this move will resent the Liberals for it. (Ignatieff said as much, yes?)

Why? They have committed to making this charade last for at least 18 months before an election, correct?

Right, and Dalton McGuinty signed a promise on live TV not to raise taxes. Either of the three will have no difficulty finding justification to pull out and vote no on something the other finds sacred as soon as they think it's in their interest to do so. Plus you can expect a lot of brinksmanship among the three similar to what we saw from the Tories last time around. Duceppe and Layton saying, basically "You give me what I want or we're voting against this".

But yes, the Liberals will take the blame for this. This will pretty much finish any chance of a comeback for them out west. They can write off the West for the next twenty years or so now - (though if they stick the west with some sort of environmental tax on resources you can add another couple of generations to that). More importantly, back when the Liberals were actually one of the more relevent parties in Britain, their downfall ended with coallitions with Labour. After that Labour became the primary opposition, and the Liberals were forever after doomed to irrelevancy. I suspect the NDP are hoping for the same here, and if this coallition nonsense ends in the train wreck many suspect it will, they might get their wish.

[August1991]

He's quite divisive isn't he? Never a good quality in a politician.

Pierre Trudeau was extremely divisive and yet many consider him to be a very successful politician.

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Bob Rae is largely responsible for making Dion the coalition's choice for PM. If Rae hadn't insisted, then Ignatieff would have been chosen leader and that would have been the end of Rae's dream of becoming PM. Why did Ignatieff go along with this? Because he expects to become PM in May.

He'll be gone soon. As long as the coalition can survive until the convention, then we will have someone stronger to replace him. Who knows, maybe he'll be a good PM?

I wouldn't count on Dion resigning in May. As we have seen in the past few days, politics can hold many surprises.

If the coalition succeeds, why would they change Dion? What stops Dion from being the choice of the Liberal convention in May?

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One of the Tory talking points is that the Liberals believe Dion is good enough to be PM but not good enough to be Liberal leader!

[August1991]

As if the idea of the the author of the Clarity Act and the head of the separation movement forming a government together wasn't bad enough....

Cartoon

But yes, the Liberals will take the blame for this. This will pretty much finish any chance of a comeback for them out west. They can write off the West for the next twenty years or so now - (though if they stick the west with some sort of environmental tax on resources you can add another couple of generations to that).

To get Duceppe's agreement, they have put Kyoto into the coalition agreement and will implement a cap-and-trade system. Edited December 2, 2008 by August1991

[Argus]

To get Duceppe's agreement, they have put Kyoto into the coalition agreement and will implement a cap-and-trade system.

Which further's Duceppe's aim of distancing Quebec from TROC. The scheme Gordon Campbell put in out in BC is already proving wildly unpopular. And they're not even a resource province. If we get a nationwide scheme put in at the behest of two Quebec leaders - which largely benefits Quebec because they have all that hydro electric power - the resentment towards Quebec from the west will be palpable. The Liberals will lose their last remaining seats west of Ontario, and if they're not very lucky the NDP will too.

Edited to say, The Liberals will be lucky if it's not their last remaining seats west of Toronto.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Argus

[Rue]

But I don't understand why this man is being chosen to lead the coalition when he clearly lost the election. This is absolutely ridiculous, he practically brought the LPC to its knees, Canada clearly did not warm up to the man.

Why is he leading the coalition?

Because that is what the law requires. He is legally the head of the Liberal Party. Until he is no longer the head of the Liberal party, he is their Chief Minister.

There is no legal precedent to choosing a Prime Minister from a political party by ignoring that party's leader. It would have been legally challenged. This way it can not be.

It is clear Dion's mandate is extremely limited and just until the new Liberal leader is appointed.

The practical reality is this is a caretaker coalition. The new Liberal leader in June will disband the coalition. There is no way Ignatieff or Rae or Leblank will continue with Layton. Not a chance.

Imagine the scenario. Layton and Rae? Right. Ignatieff and Layton? Hah. Not going to happen.

This is a temporary aberation designed to give Harper the finger for giving all three other parties the finger. Harper believes this will cause a back-lash to give him his majority, Layton feels a few months in power will show Canada he is a sensible communist when given a government post to run, and the Liberals I have no idea what is in it for them. Dion necessarily will be a lame duck good and I suppose they can blame any mistakes on Layton for not allowing them to do what they had to do. But it will be interesting to see Ignatieff or Rae trying to distance themselves from Layton while being Ministers in the same government as him.

My bet is Ignatieff wins, and then immediately distances himself from Layton and takes a non financial post probably External Affairs where he can do what he does wax poetic about human rights and world affairs. Rae, I am not sure. The suddenly capitalist former socialist is going to be out of place in any position they give him. He may want a position such as Industry where he can take credit for saving the car industry. John McCallum right now is whether he likes it or not, being an ex banker, the Finance Minister already. It would make the most sense putting him in at Finance for now with Goodale as the other seasoned veteran either in Treasury or the Transport or in charge if infrastructure rebuilding. You know the NDP will be given environment and Labour and probably Human Resources and Culture. If NDP gets the Health Ministry this is a signal the government will not last maybe not even until June-the NDP is committed to big time spending particularly in health while the right wing of the Liberals lead by Ignatieff are dead against it.

If Dominic Leblan is lucky they can give him Daddy's old Ministry of Fisheries portfolio.

[kimmy]

Because that is what the law requires. He is legally the head of the Liberal Party. Until he is no longer the head of the Liberal party, he is their Chief Minister.

There is no legal precedent to choosing a Prime Minister from a political party by ignoring that party's leader. It would have been legally challenged. This way it can not be.

I agree with most of your post, but I believe the Liberal Party is free to appoint whoever they wish as their interim leader.

After the 2006 election, PMPM stepped down and had an interim successor in place within a day or two, did he not?

-k

[BC_chick]

The problem is that Harper's weakness - arrogance and an unwillingness to compromise - are traits which are actually WORSE in Dion. We've already heard all about it - from his own party. He's very unloved. He's arrogant, doesn't listen to advise, a lone wolf who goes his own way, completely without charisma and communications skills.

And this is a guy who is going to lead an unstable coallition which absolutely requires diplomatic finesse and compromise? Please.

Fair points all. To make matters worse, at least Harper seems to arouse inspiration from his base, Dion couldn't even manage that.

[BC_chick]

Because that is what the law requires. He is legally the head of the Liberal Party. Until he is no longer the head of the Liberal party, he is their Chief Minister.

There is no legal precedent to choosing a Prime Minister from a political party by ignoring that party's leader. It would have been legally challenged. This way it can not be.

It is clear Dion's mandate is extremely limited and just until the new Liberal leader is appointed.

The practical reality is this is a caretaker coalition. The new Liberal leader in June will disband the coalition. There is no way Ignatieff or Rae or Leblank will continue with Layton. Not a chance.

Imagine the scenario. Layton and Rae? Right. Ignatieff and Layton? Hah. Not going to happen.

This is a temporary aberation designed to give Harper the finger for giving all three other parties the finger. Harper believes this will cause a back-lash to give him his majority, Layton feels a few months in power will show Canada he is a sensible communist when given a government post to run, and the Liberals I have no idea what is in it for them. Dion necessarily will be a lame duck good and I suppose they can blame any mistakes on Layton for not allowing them to do what they had to do. But it will be interesting to see Ignatieff or Rae trying to distance themselves from Layton while being Ministers in the same government as him.

I'm gonna have to go with Kimmy on this one, an interim leader would have been a better choice. Not as a matter of law, but more for ethical reasons.

[Smallc]

I'm gonna have to go with Kimmy on this one, an interim leader would have been a better choice. Not as a matter of law, but more for ethical reasons.

I agree with that as well. I would have much rather seen either the Goodale or McCallum.

[kimmy]

I agree with that as well. I would have much rather seen either the Goodale or McCallum.

Big Fat Ralph might have been a good choice. Everybody knows he's not going to lead the party, so that's not an issue. As a former finance minister, his presence in the big chair might give some credibility to the claim that "it's about saving the economy!!!" rather than a power-grab by a guy who never accepted the election results. It would also detract from the perception that Dion's fanciful agenda of carbon taxes and wind-powered scooters is going to be forced on Canadians. And it might help appease westerners who are loading their shotguns and buying large quantities of canned food as we speak.

-k

[Smallc]

Big Fat Ralph might have been a good choice.

I thought that McCallum would be a good choice being as he used to be chief economist of RBC.