What the Governor General Has to Do!

[Donaill]

We already did. One more time for those that don't get it; we don't vote for governments, we vote for Parliament. Parliament decides who governs, with the assent of Governor General.

I think that that is the point many people miss. We were talking about this at work today. The Governor General can say no to disolving the current government, she could also say that a new election should be called. It is within the right of the GG. However, if it goes to an election and the Liberals fall below official party status, as the Tories did after Mulrooney, I wonder if the Tories will allow Liberals to sit in the house? Than again perhaps we will see a higher voter turn out and see a Liberal government go in.

Personally, I am not for or against any one party. I am a Nationalist and a Socialist. I believe in a strong military and a strong social policy. I don't believe that we should always be bending over to the will of the US with regards to energy, water and trade policies.

I do not care for the politics of some of the Reform elements of the PC party. I still like old PCs like Clark and Danny Williams. I don't want to see Canada head towards a more American style of society. I like the core values that we have lived by since WW2.

[Alta4ever]

We already did. One more time for those that don't get it; we don't vote for governments, we vote for Parliament. Parliament decides who governs, with the assent of Governor General.

When the question of coalition was posed to the lladers of the left the answer was no. Now they have revesed that so what we voted is now not represented.

Why do fear an election? ARE YOU SCARED OF THE MAJORITY OF CANADIANS?

[Oleg Bach]

From my experience - established and well known hard core communists are thriving in Ontario - I attended a birthday party for an old disbarred communist lawyer - We used this guy to do the technical filing when dealing with the Supreme Court - He took the money from what he considered "peti borgousi" (tradesman) (hope I spelled it right.....and betrayed his client who was searching for justice - This old fart - bragged that some of his old feminist communist eccentric friends sat on the bench in Ottawa...and insinuated that he could get favours - and apparently he did. This is not to slander the courts - but I am just repeating what I heard and am attempting to communicate that information as accurately as posssible - there are tacit agreements and bias in our system that favour the left. NOW if the GG is not under the authorship of the Queen and she has socialist leanings we may be screwed. But maybe not - now that she has tasted the rightist luxury that her position granted her - she may now be a convert to capitalism.

[g_bambino]

When the question of coalition was posed to the lladers of the left the answer was no. Now they have revesed that so what we voted is now not represented.

Why do fear an election? ARE YOU SCARED OF THE MAJORITY OF CANADIANS?

It appears you believe we should have election after election until you are satisfied with the results.

[Donaill]

From my experience - established and well known hard core communists are thriving in Ontario - I attended a birthday party for an old disbarred communist lawyer - We used this guy to do the technical filing when dealing with the Supreme Court - He took the money from what he considered "peti borgousi" (tradesman) (hope I spelled it right.....and betrayed his client who was searching for justice - This old fart - bragged that some of his old feminist communist eccentric friends sat on the bench in Ottawa...and insinuated that he could get favours - and apparently he did. This is not to slander the courts - but I am just repeating what I heard and am attempting to communicate that information as accurately as posssible - there are tacit agreements and bias in our system that favour the left. NOW if the GG is not under the authorship of the Queen and she has socialist leanings we may be screwed. But maybe not - now that she has tasted the rightist luxury that her position granted her - she may now be a convert to capitalism.

Thats funny... I wonder if you would feel the same way if you were suddenly destitute. Would you be happy to live without the internet, TV, a shower once a day, or food every day? perhaps you could, or perhaps yopu would be looking for those more socially minded of the community. Sometimes I really wonder if people are fully aware of the political and labour history of this nation. Much of the Socialist thought in Canada was born in the West. Strong socialists of the Farmers Co-Op, Tommy Douglas, and the So-Creds. Many talk about Socialism and Communism as if they are the same thing. Many talk as if Socialism is an evil birth child of the East.

How many of your Grandfathers of Great Grandfathers were among the General Strike. How many had to fight for the socially minded idea that veterans of war should be granted financial and economic aid? How many here know people that have a good living based on the Wheat Board? Canada should protect it's own. We should be proud to be who we are. We have alot of wealth but don't make alot of use of it. We sell energy at a lower rate than we could, to the US but screw other provinces over. We trade easier with the Yanks than we do among ourselves. We complain about other provinces moving into our place of birth. With the Newfoundland oil boom many Albertan companies are afraid of loosing the work force from the Maritimes.

Say waht you want. Bitch about what you want. Bloody well complain and throw accuastions around all you want. Thats ok. I blat my own mouth off as well. But when people choose to pick small points out of history of out of current political drama and make it seem like a bigger deal than it is??!!!! It was a Torie goverment that promised free and open votes in Parliament, never happened. It was a Torie goverment that promised electoral reform, never happened. It was a torie goverment that reneged on two energy agreements with the east coast but had to cave in to pressure. Not because of want to do the correct thing but because of fear of loosing any PC votes in the east.

Yes, there are Tories in the east. Just not the same kind as in the West.

[Alta4ever]

It appears you believe we should have election after election until you are satisfied with the results.

It appears that no-one voted for this out come and the the people of Canada are against you. Opinion poll on opinion poll show just how out of touch you are with the people. It is not the poeple of Canada that have lost confidence in the current government just those who did don't end up with the election reslut that they want. Now they have formed this bloodless coup that has enraged a nation. You my friend are in the wrong.

[Oleg Bach]

Thats funny... I wonder if you would feel the same way if you were suddenly destitute. Would you be happy to live without the internet, TV, a shower once a day, or food every day? perhaps you could, or perhaps yopu would be looking for those more socially minded of the community. Sometimes I really wonder if people are fully aware of the political and labour history of this nation. Much of the Socialist thought in Canada was born in the West. Strong socialists of the Farmers Co-Op, Tommy Douglas, and the So-Creds. Many talk about Socialism and Communism as if they are the same thing. Many talk as if Socialism is an evil birth child of the East.

How many of your Grandfathers of Great Grandfathers were among the General Strike. How many had to fight for the socially minded idea that veterans of war should be granted financial and economic aid? How many here know people that have a good living based on the Wheat Board? Canada should protect it's own. We should be proud to be who we are. We have alot of wealth but don't make alot of use of it. We sell energy at a lower rate than we could, to the US but screw other provinces over. We trade easier with the Yanks than we do among ourselves. We complain about other provinces moving into our place of birth. With the Newfoundland oil boom many Albertan companies are afraid of loosing the work force from the Maritimes.

Say waht you want. Bitch about what you want. Bloody well complain and throw accuastions around all you want. Thats ok. I blat my own mouth off as well. But when people choose to pick small points out of history of out of current political drama and make it seem like a bigger deal than it is??!!!! It was a Torie goverment that promised free and open votes in Parliament, never happened. It was a Torie goverment that promised electoral reform, never happened. It was a torie goverment that reneged on two energy agreements with the east coast but had to cave in to pressure. Not because of want to do the correct thing but because of fear of loosing any PC votes in the east.

Yes, there are Tories in the east. Just not the same kind as in the West.

My destitution was not sudden. It was incrimental and I am accustomed to it. I am crafty and have access to what ever I need because even though I am more poor than a church mouse - I survive because I am creative and intelligent and love people. I own nothing...except my free speech. One thing I have learned about old school Tories - they hold the money and still maintain a sense of honour - for that I am grateful - and they are very cheap - for that I am not grateful - The left are dangerous because they were not born with money and crave it - It's like a corporation - It's not the founder of the corporation that is corrupt. It is always middle management..Those who crave more material goods and status - those that hunger to competer without abiding to ethics.

Put it this way - I would rather have my masters that were conservative in mind than those that want Porches and who have a driving need to impress their fellows...old money can be good money...and liberals only want to liberate that money and take it for themselves...Unionist once they are wealthy become what they hated.It's human nature....Just like the darling feminists who protected woman during the 60s and 70s - most are well established now and behave like rich white guys....It's like a prisoner who promises to do a good turn for his fellow inmates upon his release....once that prisoner walks out of the gates - The first thing on his mind is his own freedom and comfort - the last thing on his mind is what he leaves behind - Leftist in time become rightist and alway abandon the cause - always!

[g_bambino]

It appears that no-one voted for this out come and the the people of Canada are against you. Opinion poll on opinion poll show just how out of touch you are with the people.

Erm, of course no one voted for this outcome; do you expect people to predict the future? Let opinion polls show a snap-shot of the present emotional state of some segment of the populace; nothing changes the points that 1) we do not elect governments, and 2) the result of an election cannot be forseen, meaning there was no way to know whether or not there would be any coalition until after the results from the ballot box were totalled. Those who somehow now expect otherwise show their own ignorance.

You must be a politician, given the way you've anointed yourself the spokesperson for the people of Canada.

[Donaill]

My destitution was not sudden. It was incrimental and I am accustomed to it. I am crafty and have access to what ever I need because even though I am more poor than a church mouse - I survive because I am creative and intelligent and love people. I own nothing...except my free speech. One thing I have learned about old school Tories - they hold the money and still maintain a sense of honour - for that I am grateful - and they are very cheap - for that I am not grateful - The left are dangerous because they were not born with money and crave it - It's like a corporation - It's not the founder of the corporation that is corrupt. It is always middle management..Those who crave more material goods and status - those that hunger to competer without abiding to ethics.

Put it this way - I would rather have my masters that were conservative in mind than those that want Porches and who have a driving need to impress their fellows...old money can be good money...and liberals only want to liberate that money and take it for themselves...Unionist once they are wealthy become what they hated.It's human nature....Just like the darling feminists who protected woman during the 60s and 70s - most are well established now and behave like rich white guys....It's like a prisoner who promises to do a good turn for his fellow inmates upon his release....once that prisoner walks out of the gates - The first thing on his mind is his own freedom and comfort - the last thing on his mind is what he leaves behind - Leftist in time become rightist and alway abandon the cause - always!

There are alot of economically Concervative people that drive Porches and BMWs just to show off the wealth. It has become an issue, even among the wealthy. Much of the Old Wealth think that it is dispicable the way that some of the Newly Wealthy flaunt wealth and make money hand over fist with no other reason other than to make money. I know that on the East Coast we have some VERY wealthy families that don't flaunt it and give generous amounts of money to social programs, as well as other worthy causes. There is a divide now between the Haves and Have nots this is getting larger. The Middle Class is disappearing through out North America. The Ultimate Wealthy no longer wish to sustain jobs or promote growth within our continent. They seem to wish to go to areas that they can exploit poor working conditions and low wages.

[CanadianBacon]

It appears that no-one voted for this out come and the the people of Canada are against you. Opinion poll on opinion poll show just how out of touch you are with the people. It is not the poeple of Canada that have lost confidence in the current government just those who did don't end up with the election reslut that they want. Now they have formed this bloodless coup that has enraged a nation. You my friend are in the wrong.

You are trying to redo our political system ad-hoc to suit your end goal.

In claiming he is wrong then you are claiming the constitution is wrong.

[Oleg Bach]

If you want the play to be successful and come to a happy end - You must follow the script (constitution). To re-write the rules (lines) and change the director in a whimsical manner causes the play to come to a disasterous end. All is well that ends well - but not if we toss out the script and improvise...anything could happen - Canada is to precious in the world to haphazardly toy with. Rule of law - moral the legal law..together.

[Donaill]

There is nothing unconstitutional or illegal about what is happening now. AS someone else pointed out, we vote for a parliament, not a goverment. It is in the hands of the GG and that is part of the law. Agree or disagree, this is not a question of law. If it was than Clark would have stayed in power the last time a goveremnt fell to a vote of none confidence.

[Oleg Bach]

There is nothing unconstitutional or illegal about what is happening now. AS someone else pointed out, we vote for a parliament, not a goverment. It is in the hands of the GG and that is part of the law. Agree or disagree, this is not a question of law. If it was than Clark would have stayed in power the last time a goveremnt fell to a vote of none confidence.

Creepy how legalist are willing to thwart moral law and common law. When it suits them they will say suddenly that it's "not a question of law" - But take it to the courts and it's all about laws written on behalf of maintaining a status quo, whether it is healthy for the nation or not. Loss of faith - or confidence in government is exaclty like the loss of faith in our monitary system...ironic how both are taking place at the same time. This cursed double whammy must be contained - we had better regain our confidence in man and money or depression will set in.....Have faith - you have no choice....personally - I believe that all will do the right thing...I am not worried...Right will prevail - even if that right is on the left - a body needs both hands..left and right - so this internal war is but an adjustment....I hope we have learned a lesson here...what I see is peace and prosperity coming for all...I HAVE THE ONLY WEALTH WORTH HOLDING -------------HOPE!

[whowhere]

Harper was granted a one to one, face to face meeting with the Governor General whereas the coalition had to send over a letter of intent. Everyone insists the Governor General's position is ceremonial but she in fact crossed the line when she agreed to close parliament at Harper's request. Harper's demeanor is rather threatening in the house of commons one could only imagine if you were alone with him in a room.

What has been established Here? Traditionally, the English Common law is one of precedents. When something has been done once it can be replicated without an appeal to a higher power/court. In the Governor Generals case the appeal would have to be the queen herself.

The New Governor General Power?

She has the power to suspend/close parliament if and when she is asked. This could be useful going forward. I wonder if the Governor General could also go as far as suspending parliament without pay?????

EDITED by moderator

This post was once the Opening Post of a thread entitled:

Harper Bullied the Governor General? -- Sometimes its hard to say NO!

It has been merged into this previous thread on the same topic.

Edited December 8, 2008 by Charles Anthony
merged threads

[Smallc]

but she in fact crossed the line when she agreed to close parliament at Harper's request.

And you have proof of this?

[whowhere]

And you have proof of this?

Proof is in the actions. It's a matter of logical deduction my dear watson. If as people insist the governor generals role is ceremonial than it would go to reason she should followed the "will" of parliament. The fact is the role of Prime Minister is a created role and only exists because the so called ruling party created the position. If the governor general was in fact ceremonial she would have sidestepped harper and pushed the matter back on parliament to allow the will of parliament to decide Harper's fate.

Because the Governor General intervened she alone saved Harper from the "will" of the democratically elected members of parliament. Because of this move the Governor General is now empowered to suspend parliament at her discretion. As I stated, English Common Law is one of Precedents and the Governor General has indeed set a precedents with her actions.

[Smallc]

it would go to reason she should followed the "will" of parliament.

She follows the advice of ministers of the crown (unless of course they are "wrong" in regards to things she has power over). That's the way its pretty much always been.

[punked]

She did what she had to do. She had no real evidence that Harper does not have confidence of the house so she went with it. Not her fault really.

[whowhere]

She follows the advice of ministers of the crown (unless of course they are "wrong" in regards to things she has power over). That's the way its pretty much always been.

Who are these ministers of the Crown?? As far we know the Governor General represents the Queen. How and who the Governor General consults to make a decision on the running of parliament is certainly a question. If the Governor General is consulting with with the Prime Minister and the Ministers she has entered into a conflict of interest to the parliament of Canada. The fact is, she made a decision which should have been made by the parliament. Because of this, The Governor General has the power to suspend parliament if and when asked. The Governor General answers to the Queen not to Canada.

[whowhere]

She did what she had to do. She had no real evidence that Harper does not have confidence of the house so she went with it. Not her fault really.

Then she should have allow him to face the house in a vote of confidence. Harper suposedly lost the confidence of the house. This would have been established had he faced a democratic vote of parliament.

[Goat Boy©]

Then she should have allow him to face the house in a vote of confidence. Harper suposedly lost the confidence of the house. This would have been established had he faced a democratic vote of parliament.

She did her job, stop complaining.

[Smallc]

Who are these ministers of the Crown??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-Eighth_Canadian_Ministry

[Riverwind]

Because the Governor General intervened she alone saved Harper from the "will" of the democratically elected members of parliament. Because of this move the Governor General is now empowered to suspend parliament at her discretion. As I stated, English Common Law is one of Precedents and the Governor General has indeed set a precedents with her actions.

There is no hard and fast rule covering this situtation and whatever decision she made it would made a 'precedent'. You are just whinging because it did not go the way you wanted. Fortunately, she made the best decision for the country and this "coalition" will still have its chance in Jan. If the "coalition" falls apart then that will be evidence that they had no business trying to run the country in the first place.

She also did not make her decision in isolation. She took full advantage of her right to consult with experts before deciding:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...PStory/National

Edited December 8, 2008 by Riverwind

[Goat Boy©]

There is no hard and fast rule covering this situtation and whatever decision she made it would made a 'precedent'. You are just whinging because it did not go the way you wanted. Fortunately, she made the best decision for the country and this "coalition" will still have its chance in Jan. If the "coalition" falls apart then that will be evidence that they had no business trying to run the country in the first place.

She also did not make her decision in isolation. She took full advantage of her right to consult with experts before deciding:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...PStory/National

We didn't want Dion during the election, why on earth would we want him now. Most especially attached to the NDP & BQ? Did John Manley not say something nearly identical?

[whowhere]

You are just whinging because it did not go the way you wanted. Fortunately, she made the best decision for the country and this "coalition" will still have its chance in Jan. If the "coalition" falls apart then that will be evidence that they had no business trying to run the country in the first place.

whining because it didn't go my way?? I am on record for saying screw the coalition. It should have went to the parliament for a vote after which a decision by the Governor General should have been made to let the coalition govern or hold another election. I stated hold another election and I gave my reasons why.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....showtopic=12760