Alberta to suffer

[Mr.Canada]

I voted for marketing choice in the plebiscite. If it works out in the WTO then all the better, and that's a big if.

Now you listen carefully, I am an ag producer, I know far more about the wheat board than you will ever learn. Albertans want the wheat board gone, that means no two tier system. In their eyes there is no compromise like Ontario. An Ontario farmer gets more money through their wheat board/free market mainly in part to this little thing called transportation costs. It is much cheaper to transport grain from Ontario to port than it is for prairie farmers. If you look at the CWB webpage, you will see the deductions in their PRO's. Sometimes the wheat board gets a better price, sometimes it doesn't. By the way grain sold for feed or ethanol does not have to be sold through the wheat board out west, that is a fact.

So what I said there is 100% false?

This

Alberta wheat farmers cannot sell their own crop on the free market. They must sell it through the Canadian Wheat Board and in doing so the ALberta farmer doesn't get as much money as an Ontario farmer can get on the free market. Ontario wheat farmers an sell their grain on the free market nad get that higher profit margin that Albert an farmers are denied.

There is no truth to this at all? This is precisely what as told to me by farmers in southern Alberta. Wow, I wonder if they know they are all misinformed?

Edited November 5, 2008 by Mr.Canada

[M.Dancer]

Repeated attempts to set up an Alberta Wheat Board has been blocked by decades of Liberal rule.

Repeated attempts? Can you find even one?

[madmax]

Listen carefully.

Deny it all you want. That is fact,. In denying it you make yourself look foolish.

Oh yes I forgot, when I'm right no one responds to my threads. Heaven forbid I be right.

When Blueblood responds to a thread in his field (no pun intended), It is wise to listen carefully for fear of looking foolish.

I have found nothing but clarity in his posts regarding agricultural policy and the CWB.

[noahbody]

Albertans want the wheat board gone, that means no two tier system. In their eyes there is no compromise like Ontario.

Many Albertan farmers support the wheat board.

An Ontario farmer gets more money through their wheat board/free market mainly in part to this little thing called transportation costs. It is much cheaper to transport grain from Ontario to port than it is for prairie farmers.

Except for prairie farmers who live close to the border.

[noahbody]

del double post

Edited November 5, 2008 by noahbody

[Mr.Canada]

When Blueblood responds to a thread in his field (no pun intended), It is wise to listen carefully for fear of looking foolish.

I have found nothing but clarity in his posts regarding agricultural policy and the CWB.

My point was that many Alberta farmers don't like the CWB monopoly on Albertan farmers. Their displeasure is well documented, sheesh.

[jdobbin]

My point was that many Alberta farmers don't like the CWB monopoly on Albertan farmers. Their displeasure is well documented, sheesh.

A lot of Albertans support a dual market where the Wheat Board stands beside the private options.

In many cases, farmers have been sold a bill of goods. A state trading enterprise would have to be shut down because WTO rules only allow its existence if it has a monopoly.

In other words, make the change to dual market and the Wheat Board will be gone instantly. The only option will be the private option.

People forget why the Wheat Board was created in the first place. Farmers believed they were being ripped off by the princes along Wellington Crescent.

[Mr.Canada]

A lot of Albertans support a dual market where the Wheat Board stands beside the private options.

In many cases, farmers have been sold a bill of goods. A state trading enterprise would have to be shut down because WTO rules only allow its existence if it has a monopoly.

In other words, make the change to dual market and the Wheat Board will be gone instantly. The only option will be the private option.

People forget why the Wheat Board was created in the first place. Farmers believed they were being ripped off by the princes along Wellington Crescent.

Those times are gone and the government of the day needs to change with it. Farmers now are much more educated and feel that they can market their own crops without the governments involvement. I don't see a problem. It would free up a lot of money that would be spent elsewhere.

[jdobbin]

Those times are gone and the government of the day needs to change with it. Farmers now are much more educated and feel that they can market their own crops without the governments involvement. I don't see a problem. It would free up a lot of money that would be spent elsewhere.

The fact of the matter is that most of the grain farmers who voted in favour of ending the monopoly expect the Wheat Board to continue. That will be a problem if it is ruled illegal by the WTO.

The government has never made it clear how the Wheat Board would continue. It is one of the reasons why they won't bring it up in Parliament. If they do, it will raise alarm among farmers supportive of other marketing boards. The WTO wants them made illegal as well.

If the Tories want to lose 10 seats in Quebec, make people there think that the milk marketing board will be gone.

[Mr.Canada]

The fact of the matter is that most of the grain farmers who voted in favour of ending the monopoly expect the Wheat Board to continue. That will be a problem if it is ruled illegal by the WTO.

The government has never made it clear how the Wheat Board would continue. It is one of the reasons why they won't bring it up in Parliament. If they do, it will raise alarm among farmers supportive of other marketing boards. The WTO wants them made illegal as well.

If the Tories want to lose 10 seats in Quebec, make people there think that the milk marketing board will be gone.

It's going to depend on how they package it if they indeed do make a motion to change things.

[blueblood]

The fact of the matter is that most of the grain farmers who voted in favour of ending the monopoly expect the Wheat Board to continue. That will be a problem if it is ruled illegal by the WTO.

The government has never made it clear how the Wheat Board would continue. It is one of the reasons why they won't bring it up in Parliament. If they do, it will raise alarm among farmers supportive of other marketing boards. The WTO wants them made illegal as well.

If the Tories want to lose 10 seats in Quebec, make people there think that the milk marketing board will be gone.

The Doha round is back on at the WTO, it will be interesting if there will be any agreement and what it is. Europe has been calling for the head of the CWB and the tories aren't caving on that. Due to tough economic times, I think and am hoping an agreement is made.

[jdobbin]

It's going to depend on how they package it if they indeed do make a motion to change things.

I don't know how you package the end of the CWB. Read the polls that government ran on this and most farmers expect the Wheat Board to continue. It won't. It can't. Not unless Canada is expecting to withstand countervailing duties on a whole lot of products.

[jdobbin]

The Doha round is back on at the WTO, it will be interesting if there will be any agreement and what it is. Europe has been calling for the head of the CWB and the tories aren't caving on that. Due to tough economic times, I think and am hoping an agreement is made.

Many have been asking at the WTO for the end of all marketing boards in Canada. All of them.

The CWB remains legal only so long as it has a monopoly. Anything else and it is all over except the pink slips.

[noahbody]

In other words, make the change to dual market and the Wheat Board will be gone instantly. The only option will be the private option.

Or you could just make Ontario farmers go through the wheat board.

[jdobbin]

Or you could just make Ontario farmers go through the wheat board.

I've never heard anyone say they should be included. Any reason why?

The CWB was set up to represent the vast majority of grain farmers and didn't include Ontario grain farmers since their grain was used in more in local and regional markets whereas western grain was marketed world-wide. Moreover, the Ontario Board was its own enclosed entity.

Dual marketing cannot exist under WTO rules. It is all or nothing.

[blueblood]

Many have been asking at the WTO for the end of all marketing boards in Canada. All of them.

The CWB remains legal only so long as it has a monopoly. Anything else and it is all over except the pink slips.

its a wait and see as to what happens at doha.

[jdobbin]

its a wait and see as to what happens at doha.

One thing is clear. No monopoly: no Wheat Board.

If farmers know that, accept that, want that...then let a vote proceed in the House and end the Wheat Board. If not, stop the deception that somehow farmers will be able to go back and forth between Wheat Board and other options.

[blueblood]

One thing is clear. No monopoly: no Wheat Board.

If farmers know that, accept that, want that...then let a vote proceed in the House and end the Wheat Board. If not, stop the deception that somehow farmers will be able to go back and forth between Wheat Board and other options.

Ahh, but the doha talks is the equivalent to opening a can of worms. There is a chance some things will happen there. In an economic downturn, Canada is in a position of leverage. I'd wait until the talks are done until figuring out the fate of the wheat board. This we do know, the tories are quite clear in defending the wheat board and supply management there.

[noahbody]

I've never heard anyone say they should be included. Any reason why?

Farmers could no longer bitch about being treated unfairly.

The CWB was set up to represent the vast majority of grain farmers and didn't include Ontario grain farmers since their grain was used in more in local and regional markets whereas western grain was marketed world-wide. Moreover, the Ontario Board was its own enclosed entity.

Why should local and regional markets in Ontario get to buy locally? Albertans aren't allowed a local gasoline market.

Dual marketing cannot exist under WTO rules. It is all or nothing.

So what harm would it do for Ontario farmers to go through the wheat board?

[blueblood]

Farmers could no longer bitch about being treated unfairly.

Why should local and regional markets in Ontario get to buy locally? Albertans aren't allowed a local gasoline market.

So what harm would it do for Ontario farmers to go through the wheat board?

Your making the wrong argument with Ontario buying locally. There is a large population there. You should be making the argument that why is Ontario allowed to export grain on their own while westerners go through the board.

[jdobbin]

Farmers could no longer bitch about being treated unfairly.

If they want the Wheat Board gone, all they have to do is get the Tories to introduce a bill in the House. Instead the Harper Tories have tried to do it illegally and the courts have shut them down three times.

Why should local and regional markets in Ontario get to buy locally? Albertans aren't allowed a local gasoline market.

I have no idea what you mean on the gas market. It is an open market. It has never been controlled by a board.

The Ontario Wheat Board once had the monopoly in Ontario like the CWB has for the west. The Board there no longer has a monopoly and farmers can choose to market through the marketing agency or market it themselves.

Provincial marketing boards are presently allowed under WTO rules. National Boards without a monopoly are not allowed.

So what harm would it do for Ontario farmers to go through the wheat board?

By all means if they want to do. They already have a marketing board for their use Ontario so I don't why they would want to join the CWB. Nor have I ever heard western farmers wanting them included. It is only 4% of the whole market for grain.

[jdobbin]

Your making the wrong argument with Ontario buying locally. There is a large population there. You should be making the argument that why is Ontario allowed to export grain on their own while westerners go through the board.

The reason is that provincial marketing boards are allowed to operate in a dual market under present WTO rules. The CWB as a state trading enterprise of the Feds cannot do that.

If farmers want to break up the CWB into provincial marketing boards, they could operate in a dual market. The CWB would cease to exist though. Alberta could then set up an Alberta Wheat Board, etc.

Of course, the Doha round is looking to clip the marketing board provincially as well so it might be a short lived environment of dual marketing.

True conservative government around the world are pressuring Harper to throw marketing boards under the bus.

[guyser]

I fee like smashing everything and stabbing myself in the frickin neck.

Better see your Union Rep first, as there is probably a disability cheque waiting once completed.

I'm going to move to downtown TO and quit my job and start working for greenpeace and OCAP and protest everything that doesn't give free money to anyone who doesn't want to work.

Thanks for setting me straight guys, you've all converted another former bigoted conservative.

Congrats.

Well....you are a union guy , so I guess you will fit in just fine with OCAP. They are after all, of your ilk.

[guyser]

2. It is estimated by various scholars that Alberta lost between $50 billion and $100 billion because of the NEP. Source

Um....not a thing in your cite that suggests "why"is there?

Your assertions that money was lost is true, but its the why it was lost that is keeping the myths alive.

[Brunopolis]

Alberta is in deep trouble with the current recession. It's economy is heavily based on the oil sands and for that to be worthwhile oil has to be relatively expensive. If you look closely you'll see the Canadian dollar goes up and down based on the price of oil. When oil was at it's peak so was the dollar.

I really hope Alberta starts diversifying it's economy a little more. Being so reliant on these "oil booms" is a recipe for disaster.