Alberta to suffer

[blueblood]

Alberta is in deep trouble with the current recession. It's economy is heavily based on the oil sands and for that to be worthwhile oil has to be relatively expensive. If you look closely you'll see the Canadian dollar goes up and down based on the price of oil. When oil was at it's peak so was the dollar.

I really hope Alberta starts diversifying it's economy a little more. Being so reliant on these "oil booms" is a recipe for disaster.

Alberta is not in trouble. Oil is holding at a price floor and won't go down. there is other oil in Alberta and Saskatchewan and Manitoba and BC other than the oil sands. Alberta has enough oil for 80 years, plenty of time to diversify.

[Mr.Canada]

Um....not a thing in your cite that suggests "why"is there?

Your assertions that money was lost is true, but its the why it was lost that is keeping the myths alive.

Why was it lost you ask?

FACT It's because PM Trudeau insisted that the oil price per barrel be 75% of the world gong rate.

[guyser]

Why was it lost you ask?

FACT It's because PM Trudeau insisted that the oil price per barrel be 75% of the world gong rate.

Uh oh, there is that "fact" thing again.

It was 85% of the world price. Still doesnt explain what happened now does it? Not to mention that Lougheed agreed it was a good day for Alberta. Heck, they even drank Champagne to toast the agreement. So , Trudeau only huh?

Your missing the world price per bbl dropped, making all the plans not viable, among many other factors.

But hey, dont let FACTS get in your way.

Carry on with your myths.

Edited November 5, 2008 by guyser

[craiger]

Alberta is not in trouble. Oil is holding at a price floor and won't go down. there is other oil in Alberta and Saskatchewan and Manitoba and BC other than the oil sands. Alberta has enough oil for 80 years, plenty of time to diversify.

I am going to listen to Syncrude on this one. They have said "20 years left" using current technology's it is still to hard or costly to extract the remaining 60 years worth.

besides the way we have been ramping up production those figures are way out dated.

[Mr.Canada]

Uh oh, there is that "fact" thing again.

It was 85% of the world price. Still doesnt explain what happened now does it? Not to mention that Lougheed agreed it was a good day for Alberta. Heck, they even drank Champagne to toast the agreement. So , Trudeau only huh?

Your missing the world price per bbl dropped, making all the plans not viable, among many other factors.

But hey, dont let FACTS get in your way.

Carry on with your myths.

I don't think it matters what I say or how much proof I provide, you'll still tear it down due to partisan considerations. Just don't reply to my posts any longer.

[M.Dancer]

I don't think it matters what I say or how much proof I provide, you'll still tear it down due to partisan considerations. Just don't reply to my posts any longer.

That happenes when a poster posts stuff they don't understand...it gets ripped apart as you have learned. Mind you, when it's qa poster trying to make partisan points who finds themselves way out of their league, it is quite funny to watch them make themselves look silly, as you have learned.

[guyser]

I don't think it matters what I say or how much proof I provide, you'll still tear it down due to partisan considerations. Just don't reply to my posts any longer.

Oh it matters alright. Just that if you were right, I would agree with you.

You did not provide any proof , and I did some research. As for partisan considerations, I did vote CPC once, so thats not it.

Sorry, you dont get to pick which posters to engage with. Put up something, hell even the correct time, and I will be happy to congratulate you.

[Mr.Canada]

Oh it matters alright. Just that if you were right, I would agree with you.

You did not provide any proof , and I did some research. As for partisan considerations, I did vote CPC once, so thats not it.

Sorry, you dont get to pick which posters to engage with. Put up something, hell even the correct time, and I will be happy to congratulate you.

BS. You'll still tear it down. You'd start telling me my sources aren't good enough, I can read it already.

[craiger]

your lucky at least people reply to your post I submit facts and figures and nobody responds as people don't know how to deal with the truth.

you side spun a good thread into some stupid wheat board post.

[BC_chick]

I fee like smashing everything and stabbing myself in the frickin neck.

No, please don't smash anything.

[guyser]

BS. You'll still tear it down. You'd start telling me my sources aren't good enough, I can read it already.

You can read it? PM me the 649 for tonight.

We must be careful what sources we use. Partisan reporting is a problem.

I promise I wont tear it down, try me....for instance, what day is it today ( In Canada) ?

Answer that correctly and I will be nice.

[Mr.Canada]

No, please don't smash anything.

I'm sure you're making fun of me like everyone else but I'll bite just for the heck of it.

I'm ok now, that was yesterday. I'm just an average guy who drinks beer and plays pool, works hard, goes fishing in the summer and plays ice hockey in winter. I get upset when people look down on me and speak to me in a condescending manner. In my professional life I put these people in their place but online I need to learn different skills to deal with it and I'm not there yet.

I let my emotions run me sometimes and it has it's good and bad. I'm not a stupid person, I got high 80's and low 90's all through school.

Sorry for the off topic.

Edited November 5, 2008 by Mr.Canada

[craiger]

You can read it? PM me the 649 for tonight.

We must be careful what sources we use. Partisan reporting is a problem.

I promise I wont tear it down, try me....for instance, what day is it today ( In Canada) ?

Answer that correctly and I will be nice.

Today is a day we should take our heads out of our ars and think about today dwelling on the past only makes things worse.

I would like to hear new ideas and new opinion with direction to the future outside a tiny box, we can ramble in circles for years to come and accomplish nothing.

[guyser]

Today is a day we should take our heads out of our ars and think about today dwelling on the past only makes things worse.

Ok.

One question though....are you going to drop your lawsuit ?

It too is in the past, and dwelling about it only makes things worse.

[Mr.Canada]

Since the label changing on food production goods is it possible to build some canning and food production facilities, perhaps fund some farmer based initiatives?

In an effort to diversify the province as I pretend to understand that the oil and natural resource sector is a finite market.

[guyser]

I'm ok now, that was yesterday. I'm just an average guy who drinks beer and plays pool, works hard, goes fishing in the summer and plays ice hockey in winter. I get upset when people look down on me and speak to me in a condescending manner. In my professional life I put these people in their place but online I need to learn different skills to deal with it and I'm not there yet.

See, we share so many of the same things, 'cept I dont play pool.

Condescension comes from people here who know when one is bloviating on something they obviously dont know about.

We have had threads about all sorts of historical figures, wars , etc , and I almost never post, just read. Cuz I have very limited knowledge about them.

But some, and not just you, opine as 'fact' when they shouldnt. Thus, ya gets what ya gets.

No more. No less.

[capricorn]

We have had threads about all sorts of historical figures, wars , etc , and I almost never post, just read. Cuz I have very limited knowledge about them.

Same here guyser. I don't come here just to post but to learn. There are very knowledgable posters on this board.

[guyser]

Same here guyser. I don't come here just to post but to learn. There are very knowledgable posters on this board.

There certainly are.

Whats that phrase, about not knowing much, but open your mouth and everyone knows?...or something like that.

History -anything, and I shut up and listen.

Global warming, same.

Some just like to post for the H of it. Knock themselves out.

[bluegreen]

Same here guyser. I don't come here just to post but to learn. There are very knowledgable posters on this board.

Hear hear. Until 20 minutes ago I was clueless about the intricacies of Wheat Boards, whether CWB or Ontario Variant.

On the topic of diversification though, Alberta is liable to suffer from the same disease as Ontario and Quebec, and it is likely to become more pronounced with the passage of time. The conundrum is that resource extraction employs relatively few people, and adds very little value given the foreign exchange earnings it generates. It will be very hard to compete with imports, whether of goods, OR services, so long as the dollar is driven up by resource exports.

If you want to see an absolutely brilliant model of how a State was able to ameliorate the damage that massive resource exports can cause, look at Kuwaits KIO in the 1980's. Because the state controlled a large proportion of Oil revenues, they were able to divert a really large proportion of gross revenues to offshore investments. By so doing, they were stashing it away overseas for a rainy day, thus reducing their own exchange rates, which allowed a lot more room for normal value added economic activity. I guess a King, or Sultan can do it, but elected Parliaments just cannot keep their hands off the loot.

[craiger]

Hear hear. Until 20 minutes ago I was clueless about the intricacies of Wheat Boards, whether CWB or Ontario Variant.

On the topic of diversification though, Alberta is liable to suffer from the same disease as Ontario and Quebec, and it is likely to become more pronounced with the passage of time. The conundrum is that resource extraction employs relatively few people, and adds very little value given the foreign exchange earnings it generates. It will be very hard to compete with imports, whether of goods, OR services, so long as the dollar is driven up by resource exports.

If you want to see an absolutely brilliant model of how a State was able to ameliorate the damage that massive resource exports can cause, look at Kuwaits KIO in the 1980's. Because the state controlled a large proportion of Oil revenues, they were able to divert a really large proportion of gross revenues to offshore investments. By so doing, they were stashing it away overseas for a rainy day, thus reducing their own exchange rates, which allowed a lot more room for normal value added economic activity. I guess a King, or Sultan can do it, but elected Parliaments just cannot keep their hands off the loot.

They also got bombed to shit. the Kuwaities got nothing in that deal

still nobody can explain what ever happened to the largest gold reserves in the world they had prior to war

Edited November 6, 2008 by craiger

[Brunopolis]

Hear hear. Until 20 minutes ago I was clueless about the intricacies of Wheat Boards, whether CWB or Ontario Variant.

On the topic of diversification though, Alberta is liable to suffer from the same disease as Ontario and Quebec, and it is likely to become more pronounced with the passage of time. The conundrum is that resource extraction employs relatively few people, and adds very little value given the foreign exchange earnings it generates. It will be very hard to compete with imports, whether of goods, OR services, so long as the dollar is driven up by resource exports.

If you want to see an absolutely brilliant model of how a State was able to ameliorate the damage that massive resource exports can cause, look at Kuwaits KIO in the 1980's. Because the state controlled a large proportion of Oil revenues, they were able to divert a really large proportion of gross revenues to offshore investments. By so doing, they were stashing it away overseas for a rainy day, thus reducing their own exchange rates, which allowed a lot more room for normal value added economic activity. I guess a King, or Sultan can do it, but elected Parliaments just cannot keep their hands off the loot.

I think what you're talking about regarding resource extraction is called "dutch disease".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease

[jdobbin]

Alberta is not in trouble. Oil is holding at a price floor and won't go down. there is other oil in Alberta and Saskatchewan and Manitoba and BC other than the oil sands. Alberta has enough oil for 80 years, plenty of time to diversify.

Some of the big projects could slow down for a variety of reasons. Many thought the floor price for oil might be $70 a barrel. It is now headed south past $60 this morning.

Also, the availability of credit could hamper large projects from proceeding at pace.

A slowdown seems in the cards. For Alberta that might be a good thing as they can use the time to adjust to dramatic changes in population, infrastructure and services.

Given the spending of the Alberta government, they had better get a grip on or they might see a repeat of the Getty years.

[bluegreen]

They also got bombed to shit. the Kuwaities got nothing in that deal

still nobody can explain what ever happened to the largest gold reserves in the world they had prior to war

I can explain it, the KIO had roughly $90 billion overseas, including gold. They happily handed it over the the US Treasury to help defray the costs of the first Gulf War. Fair enough in my opinion. The ultimate in rainy days.

W.R.T. the currency trap, I distrust shortcuts like 'Dutch Disease'. I prefer to lay it out, because simple labels invite simple solutions. This is a complex problem, that no-one has adequately solved (Except Kuwait). It is similar to what totally screwed NewFoundlands economy for a generation, and has already started to seriously screw up some of the smaller members of the European monetary union. The only 'easy' solution, is to break up the country into optimal currency blocks. Yeah right, what an easy solution!

[bluegreen]

I think what you're talking about regarding resource extraction is called "dutch disease".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease

I should have checked the link first. It is a very succint description of what I was describing. I wasn't aware of several of the other sovereign wealth funds, although I don't believe that the Russian fund is anything other than a giant slush fund. Good link.

[craiger]

I read in the paper today Investors have pulled out $30 billion in Alberta investments