Toronto gun violence leaves two dead

William Ashley · October 29, 2008

Money can't pay for a life. If my kid was killed by someone like this, I wouldn't want their money. Even if they did that what kind of money would such a person be able to make? None, who wants to hire them. They would just live on the street and eat at the soup kitchen. That is a daft idea.

So they live on the streets at least they arn't sucking up tax payer dollars at 40,000$/ year or more up to 200,000$/year - I'd rather pay 0$ or receive 10,000$ for the family than loose 40,000$ holding someone in a cell so they can waste gaurds medical personnel and their own time doing nothing productive.

Most guns used in gun crimes arn't registered. A lot of them are smuggled in from the US by gangs, or the CIA or not, maybe the CIA and gangs have nothing to do with the gun smuggling, none the less the vast majority of guns used in gun crimes don't originate from Canada.

It is idle talk, putting people in Jail for longer isn't going to do anyone good, having them be productive is a reasonable option. Just locking them away does NOTHING. If they are a danger to society send them up to the barrens if they just made a mistake give them the chance to make up for their unintended mistake, such as killing innocents. Let them pay those people, make ammends.

Jail isn't punishment it is a waste of life. and has no benefit whatsoever.

Jail is deadtime. It is like flushing money down the toilet. Paying to transport and provide bad care for people is a waste of money. Having people baby sit people is a waste of money. Backlogging the justice system is a waste of money. Having lawyers preside when the lawyers fees could go to help the victims is a waste of money.

While you may not take money from them, the government could try to provide you with the social assistance from that money, that your dead husband can no longer provide to help raise your child, youd rather live in poverty than take government or the murderors money.

Having them locked in a building is NOT justice, justice is for them to make life better for those who had life made worse. They need to balance the crime with the resolution.. the resolution is restitution not ignorance.

Edited October 29, 2008 by William Ashley

Argus · October 29, 2008

The fact that their "living standards are abysmally bad by our terms" is all the more reason to let them in if they can support themselves.

No, it's not. Their lousy lives are their problem, not ours.

It does not necessarily mean they're willing to live in miserable conditions here. In fact, by moving here it could be argued that they're trying to flee that situation.

Of course they are, but even what we call poverty is luxury compared to most of our immigration source countries. So what if he only gets $8hr to do what a Canadian was paid $20h. That's still a fortune to him! And the one bedroom apartment he got from public housing is even more amazing luxury compared to his previous residence - a shack with no electricity or running water.

No one is arguing to bring in legions of immigrants,

Some would argue that 250,000 people a year constitutes legions.

You're blaming immigration for reducing wages and destroying your quality of life, but I'd love to see a rational explanation to back it up. I'm not saying you're wrong. I just don't feel your argument is compelling enough to believe.

I'm not blaming immigration. I'm stating that as an economic fact, immigration lowers wages. Why do you think business has always been totally in favour of it? It's the law of supply and demand. Bring in more workers in a given sector, that raises the supply of workers, and thus lowers the cost. And if they're from a nation where people routinely expect to work 12hr days, and get tiny pay cheques, they'll be delighted to only work 10 and get minimum wage.

guyser · October 29, 2008

Judges need to be held accountable for their decisions and must be made to explain their decisions when it comes back to harm Canadians.

They are held accountable for their decisions.

William Ashley · October 29, 2008

What the heck does immigration have to do with gun violence and the murders in Toronto, the guy who tunred himself in looks pretty white and native canadian.

Edited October 29, 2008 by William Ashley

cybercoma · October 29, 2008

No, it's not. Their lousy lives are their problem, not ours.

A person doesn't choose where his or her mother gives birth. If they can support themselves, why shouldn't they bet allowed in?

Of course they are, but even what we call poverty is luxury compared to most of our immigration source countries. So what if he only gets $8hr to do what a Canadian was paid $20h. That's still a fortune to him! And the one bedroom apartment he got from public housing is even more amazing luxury compared to his previous residence - a shack with no electricity or running water.

Do you have any evidence whatsoever to show that immigrants are making $8/hr to do jobs that Canadians would be paid $20/hr for? Also, is it so that the majority of immigrants to Canada live in public housing, where are those numbers?

Some would argue that 250,000 people a year constitutes legions.

No one has argued about what the numbers should be at. Maybe we need to restrict immigration, maybe we need to open it, maybe we should leave it where its at. What I'm trying to understand is where you get off broad-brushing all immigrants as welfare collecting neanderthals that are destroying the quality of life for born Canadian citizens.

I'm not blaming immigration. I'm stating that as an economic fact, immigration lowers wages.

If that's all you were saying, I wouldn't even reply to your post.

Why do you think business has always been totally in favour of it? It's the law of supply and demand. Bring in more workers in a given sector, that raises the supply of workers, and thus lowers the cost. And if they're from a nation where people routinely expect to work 12hr days, and get tiny pay cheques, they'll be delighted to only work 10 and get minimum wage.

Once again, I'm eager to know what professions had Canadians making "$20/hour" and working an eight hour day, where the businesses now are hiring immigrants at "$8/hour" at a ten hour day. Or is that just an exaggeration and rhetoric?

cybercoma · October 29, 2008

What the heck does immigration have to do with gun violence and the murders in Toronto, the guy who tunred himself in looks pretty white and native canadian.

Didn't you know? All the problems in Canada are a direct result of immigration. [/sarcasm]

William Ashley · October 29, 2008

Didn't you know? All the problems in Canada are a direct result of immigration. [/sarcasm]

If it wasn't immigration it'd be sex.

guyser · October 29, 2008

If it wasn't immigration it'd be sex.

The lack of sex is probably why some blame immigrants.

Too many immigrants are stealing the Canadian girls.......so a good Canadian boy has to go without.

or something like that.

William Ashley · October 29, 2008

The lack of sex is probably why some blame immigrants.
Too many immigrants are stealing the Canadian girls.......so a good Canadian boy has to go without.

or something like that.

That is one of the reasons I propose a hot female immigration class.

eyeball · October 29, 2008

Didn't you know? All the problems in Canada are a direct result of immigration. [/sarcasm]

Actually all the problems in Canada like immigration, lax judges even prohibition I bet, are a direct result of socialists, lefties and other assorted varieties of liberals.

Every single problem in the entire universe can be laid at the feet of those on the left.

eyeball · October 29, 2008

That is one of the reasons I propose a hot female immigration class.

I could fwd you the spam I get from Russia if you'd like.

wulf42 · October 29, 2008

The Canadian Army should form "Special Units" to go in and "take care" of these Gangs!

jdobbin · October 29, 2008

The death penalty should be reinstated for heinous crimes where there is either DNA evidence or three eyewitnesses. An eye for an eye, you kill one of our citizens, we'll kill you back should read the sign upon entering the country. That would get revenge and closure to the victims family and would free up some jail space for more convicts since there is never a shortage of people willing to commit crime.
I would like to see a referendum on that. Put it to a vote see if it'll pass. I say it would it would be as close as the yes/no Quebec one was as manyt Canadians are in favor of capital punishment.

I think you'll find many think you are a Liberal for setting the car too high.

eyeball · October 29, 2008

A soldier on every street? That's about what it'll take.

jdobbin · October 29, 2008

A Liberal appointed judge let this guy out of prison twice before on gun charges. This is the third time and he finally killed someone. It's sad really that the white Liberal elite who hold all that guilt still cannot admit when wrong even when it costs lives.

Which Liberal government appointed the judge in question? The last appointment I see listed for Rivard was made by the Harper government in April.

Also, from what I read, the sentence was based on a plea agreement set up by the Crown and Defence attorneys.

wulf42 · October 29, 2008

A soldier on every street? That's about what it'll take.

No it wouldn't.........the Army could just hunt them down one gang at a time and simply make them go away............it wouldn't be long before being in a Gang wouldn't seem like such a good idea!

Mr.Canada · October 29, 2008

Which Liberal government appointed the judge in question? The last appointment I see listed for Rivard was made by the Harper government in April.
Also, from what I read, the sentence was based on a plea agreement set up by the Crown and Defence attorneys.

I made an error. The who's who for 2003 has him listed as being called to the bench in 1997 to the Ontario Supreme court. I believe that would be Mike Harris. I should have just said a liberal slanted judge which he clearly must be as his previous rulings would suggest.

Edited October 29, 2008 by Mr.Canada

William Ashley · October 29, 2008

A soldier on every street? That's about what it'll take.

Japan uses what is called "community based policing" where they have booths where the active duty officer stays. It is quite successful. I highly recommend this method for policing, especially as gas prices rise. In the winter it may be more so issued but building a good solid shack that uses solar heating ain't too hard. People will drive safer too if they have to drive past cops every four blocks.

As for the military.. that is a totally different issue. I don't think the military should be involved in policing the public, unless they are especially trained to do so. I think they could be far more productive doing other things. Where as the police really are there to respond to issues.

Thing is though police tend to have good pay rates, and there are relatively few of them. eg. the 200 cops in this city arn't enough to fill every four blocks. So what it means is that the whole idea towards community service, through block programs or otherwise needs to be taken to the digital age. Eg. Cameras every four blocks. And potential rotations of police to high crime areas.

Mr.Canada · October 29, 2008

Japan uses what is called "community based policing" where they have booths where the active duty officer stays. It is quite successful. I highly recommend this method for policing, especially as gas prices rise. In the winter it may be more so issued but building a good solid shack that uses solar heating ain't too hard. People will drive safer too if they have to drive past cops every four blocks.
As for the military.. that is a totally different issue. I don't think the military should be involved in policing the public, unless they are especially trained to do so. I think they could be far more productive doing other things. Where as the police really are there to respond to issues.

Thing is though police tend to have good pay rates, and there are relatively few of them. eg. the 200 cops in this city arn't enough to fill every four blocks. So what it means is that the whole idea towards community service, through block programs or otherwise needs to be taken to the digital age. Eg. Cameras every four blocks. And potential rotations of police to high crime areas.

I find this hard to say as William Ashley is usually very partisan but that is actually a really good idea. Permanently post police in the trouble areas of cities. Thanks for pointing that out. Good post W.Ashley.

wulf42 · October 29, 2008

Japan uses what is called "community based policing" where they have booths where the active duty officer stays. It is quite successful. I highly recommend this method for policing, especially as gas prices rise. In the winter it may be more so issued but building a good solid shack that uses solar heating ain't too hard. People will drive safer too if they have to drive past cops every four blocks.
As for the military.. that is a totally different issue. I don't think the military should be involved in policing the public, unless they are especially trained to do so. I think they could be far more productive doing other things. Where as the police really are there to respond to issues.

Thing is though police tend to have good pay rates, and there are relatively few of them. eg. the 200 cops in this city arn't enough to fill every four blocks. So what it means is that the whole idea towards community service, through block programs or otherwise needs to be taken to the digital age. Eg. Cameras every four blocks. And potential rotations of police to high crime areas.

Yes this sounds like a very good idea.........it would likely work.

M.Dancer · October 29, 2008

Japan uses what is called "community based policing" where they have booths where the active duty officer stays. It is quite successful.

We have something in Canada that is similar. We cal them, "Police Stations". In them there are constables who are on duty.

But really. Japan is probably the most crime free modern nation in the world. Police are more likely to look for lost cats than cat burglers....

Edited October 29, 2008 by M.Dancer

guyser · October 29, 2008

No it wouldn't.........the Army could just hunt them down one gang at a time and simply make them go away............it wouldn't be long before being in a Gang wouldn't seem like such a good idea!

But you are worried that the "Canada I know" wont be around much longer.

If true then you certainly cannot agree with your own post. How loud will you scream when its one of your kids mistaken for a gang member.

wulf42 · October 29, 2008

But you are worried that the "Canada I know" wont be around much longer.
If true then you certainly cannot agree with your own post. How loud will you scream when its one of your kids mistaken for a gang member.

My son is in the Military as was i............so i guess that won't be an issue...lol

Edited October 29, 2008 by wulf42

M.Dancer · October 29, 2008

My son is in the Military as was i............so i guess that won't be an issue...lol

Chilian?

Mr.Canada · October 30, 2008

We have something in Canada that is similar. We cal them, "Police Stations". In them there are constables who are on duty.
But really. Japan is probably the most crime free modern nation in the world. Police are more likely to look for lost cats than cat burglers....

And they are also one of if not the most homogeneous modern nations on the planet.

Sorry M.Dancer, you lobbed me a softy, I had to take it.

EDIT- Also have some of the most strictest immigration policies on the planet. There are even signs up in many of the bars to this day that say "No Gaijin" No foreigners.

Edited October 30, 2008 by Mr.Canada