Carbon Tax rejected by the masses.

[TCCK]

The people of Canada have spoken NO CARBON TAX!!

[Smallc]

Yes, I don't know if we'll see that again for a while.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Charles Anthony
deleted re-copied Opening Post

[Hydraboss]

Ya, you'll see it again in the next election. The Liberals just cannot understand that ORDINARY people don't believe in what the Natural Governing Party believes in.

Too bad. They might have had a chance if their leader had been able to speak one of Canada's official languages and able to explain his ideals for Canada.

[jdobbin]

The people of Canada have spoken NO CARBON TAX!!

And No Harper majority!

[kengs333]

All it says is that Canadians are more concerned about themselves than they are about the environment, the destruction of which is the most serious issue facing us. A massive slump in an artificially inflated market scares people, climate change, pollution, and melting arctic ice does not. That's sad. Well, suffer the consequences. I think we've already passed the point of no return, and the majority have spoken: we want to blindly go on as before even if it means polluting our world to death.

[TCCK]

And No Harper majority!

But he gained seats so the population is starting to like him, give him 3-4 more years of governing and if the Liberals and NDP let him do some GOOD for the country the people will come around.

They are smarter than the Liberals believe them to be, thus wwwwhy the Liberals are only 77 seats.

Hell people even voted for Layton to not give the Liberals a vote and yet not vote for Harper, that really says something against Dion and his Liberals!!!'

[jdobbin]

But he gained seats so the population is starting to like him, give him 3-4 more years of governing and if the Liberals and NDP let him do some GOOD for the country the people will come around.

You have a lot of faith that Harper won't go as quick as he can.

[TCCK]

You have a lot of faith that Harper won't go as quick as he can.

Trust me he won't be able to, the Liberals wwwill stand in the door blocking anything good unless it is in thier best interests too ie: MP raises or monies to any of their ridings.

Spoiled rotten children holding their breath until they get thier way or fighting just to be the cork in the bottle of medicine everyone needs just to feel powerful.

It disgusts me that they could even act that way!

[jdobbin]

Trust me he won't be able to, the Liberals wwwill stand in the door blocking anything good unless it is in thier best interests too ie: MP raises or monies to any of their ridings.

He won't be able to call an election?

[kengs333]

But he gained seats so the population is starting to like him, give him 3-4 more years of governing and if the Liberals and NDP let him do some GOOD for the country the people will come around.

They are smarter than the Liberals believe them to be, thus wwwwhy the Liberals are only 77 seats.

Got a problem with your "w" key?

Keep in mind that just because the stock market rallied for a day, that the economy in general is not still sliding towards a recession. We just assured ourselves of having a neocon government during what will probably not be a good economy the next three or four years. Canada never does well with a Con government during tough economic times.

Keep in mind, too, that the general trend is for Cons governing for 5-8 followed by lengthy Liberal governments. With a new Liberal leader, I suspect that this trend will continue.

Hell people even voted for Layton to not give the Liberals a vote and yet not vote for Harper, that really says something against Dion and his Liberals!!!'

In my riding a lot of Liberals apparently went Conservative. I'm not sure why you're trashing the Liberals given that they supported the Cons on so many occasions.

Edited October 15, 2008 by kengs333

[Moonbox]

We just assured ourselves of having a neocon government during what will probably not be a good economy the next three or four years. Canada never does well with a Con government during tough economic times.

Your unsubstantiated way of thinking is what lost the Liberals the election. The 'hidden agenda', 'just like Bush', 'neo conservative' and 'bullying' Harper rhetoric was rejected by Canadian voters twice in a row now. When that's all you have to your campaign, and you've recycled it for 6 years straight, you end up with poor results. Dion, being an intellectual, could have argued intellectually and probably done better. Instead, he couldn't resist slipping back to the grossly exaggerated emotional appeals that assume people aren't going to think any further than the words being said. The conservatives are guilty of this too, but at least there was some 'meat' to their campaign. The Green Shift would have raised taxes and in uncertain economic times that's the last thing the economy needed.

Keep in mind, too, that the general trend is for Cons governing for 5-8 followed by lengthy Liberal governments. With a new Liberal leader, I suspect that this trend will continue.

There's not a lot of 'history' for your trend. You're looking at cycles of 20+ years, and Canada's not that old. On top of that, to suggest that Canadians today haven't changed much from Canadians 75+ years ago is a deep error in reasoning. The political landscape has completely changed.

[Mad_Michael]

The people of Canada have spoken NO CARBON TAX!!

I think you may be misinterpreting the election results and seeing what you want.

Canadians didn't reject carbon taxes. There was virtually no discussion of taxes, carbon or otherwise during this election.

No, Canadians just rejected Stephane Dion.

You can be sure carbon taxes will be back. It is the responsible thing to do and a necessary policy in the long run.

[Riverwind]

You can be sure carbon taxes will be back. It is the responsible thing to do and a necessary policy in the long run.

Only if the planet actually starts to warm again. Until then when can afford to wait and see.

[Drea]

The people of Canada have spoken NO CARBON TAX!!

Oh goodie! Now we can raise other taxes (income tax increase anyone?) to pay for new technologies.

Oil is going to run out. It is not infinite. We need to research and develop new, green energy right now. If we don't do anything now, a carbon tax will seem like a cakewalk compared to rising costs when there simply is no oil left, nor any alternative.

Where is the money to do this going to come from?

BC already has a 2% carbon tax -- if we can do it then so can the rest of the country.

[independent]

The people of Canada have spoken NO CARBON TAX!!

They had no clue what it was. Too them it was just another tax. There Liberals had no time to explain how it works. Once the world economic crisis is over you will see Harper bringing out his Green Plan.

[Riverwind]

Oil is going to run out. It is not infinite. We need to research and develop new, green energy right now. If we don't do anything now, a carbon tax will seem like a cakewalk compared to rising costs when there simply is no oil left, nor any alternative.

Dion's tax excluded gasoline so it would have done nothing to encourage alternatives to oil. However, it would have taxed coal generated electricity even though there is no shortage of coal. That is the dumb part of this CO2 obession. Everyone thinks it is all about oil and forgets that electricity does not magically appear - it has to come from somewhere and given our current technology it will have to be fossil fuels.

[independent]

But he gained seats so the population is starting to like him, give him 3-4 more years of governing and if the Liberals and NDP let him do some GOOD for the country the people will come around.

They are smarter than the Liberals believe them to be, thus wwwwhy the Liberals are only 77 seats.

Hell people even voted for Layton to not give the Liberals a vote and yet not vote for Harper, that really says something against Dion and his Liberals!!!'

Harper gained seats. NDP gain seats. Harpers adds making Dion look like some kind of monster worked. Now Harper has to do what he says he is going to do.

Balanced budget

Tough on crimes.

lower taxes

He promised to ruduce green house gas. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/09/science/.../09climate.html

He has to deal with job losses.

Harper was given the mandate but he is still on thin ice.

Remember HARPER said the Liberals will run this country in too debt.

He better deliver.

Edited October 15, 2008 by independent

[Mad_Michael]

Harpers adds making Dion look like some kind of monster worked.

Not really. Those ads probably were more effective in preventing Harper from getting a majority.

The Liberal party vote was down barely 1% over 2006, despite two years of non-stop Harper-Tory attack ads against Dion.

[segnosaur]

They had no clue what it was. Too them it was just another tax. There Liberals had no time to explain how it works.

Actually, the last thing the Liberals would have wanted is to actually explain the workings of the Green Shift carbon tax.

You see, because people don't know the details, they may end up thinking "Oh, using the word Green implies they like the environment". However, when you actually look at the details of the plan, you start to see problems... When you actually look at the numbers you see that people in Alberta, and especially Ontario, get punished over the tax (for no other reason than they use a lot of fossil fuel for electrical generation.) Other provinces (such as Quebec and Manitoba) who use a lot of hydroelectric power, would end up benefitting.

So, why would the Liberals want to go to Ontario voters (the province basically keeping the Liberals from getting slaughtered) and tell them "Hey we're going to punish you so we can give your money to other provinces"?

[capricorn]

Actually, the last thing the Liberals would have wanted is to actually explain the workings of the Green Shift carbon tax.

Looks like no more explanations will be necessary. thegreenshift.ca website no longer exists. The site is redirected to liberal.ca. This is probably the first step in removing the green shift from the Liberal policy book. This must be crushing for Dion because this was his flagship policy on which he staked his political career. Unlike Mr. Dion, I won't mourn the passing of the green shift plan.

[independent]

Looks like no more explanations will be necessary. thegreenshift.ca website no longer exists. The site is redirected to liberal.ca. This is probably the first step in removing the green shift from the Liberal policy book. This must be crushing for Dion because this was his flagship policy on which he staked his political career. Unlike Mr. Dion, I won't mourn the passing of the green shift plan.

It will be crushing for Dion because he believed in it. You may yet lament its passing when harper pulls out his plan.

[jdobbin]

Unlike Mr. Dion, I won't mourn the passing of the green shift plan.

Now, will Harper end the cap and trade and indicate that he doesn't believe in global warming?

[Drea]

Dion's tax excluded gasoline so it would have done nothing to encourage alternatives to oil. However, it would have taxed coal generated electricity even though there is no shortage of coal. That is the dumb part of this CO2 obession. Everyone thinks it is all about oil and forgets that electricity does not magically appear - it has to come from somewhere and given our current technology it will have to be fossil fuels.

That's all well and fine until it becomes too expensive to extract it from the tarsands or when it simply runs out.

I am not saying electric is the way to go... why not coal burning cars? ...If we have lots of it...and emmissions mean nothing... (you don't "believe in" global climate change or air pollution so you should have no problem with coal being burned as fuel for everything!)

Wouldn't it be great to be sitting on your non-smoking restaurant patio with a coal burning bus idling there?

Or realistically , governments could force the automakers to develop engines that get a minimum of 100+ mileage. Currently your gas powered vehicle actually uses only 30% of the fuel you put in it, the rest is completely wasted.

If we don't force the automakers to change, perhaps we should tax the shit out of those who drive gas guzzlers? A vehicle with low mileage, for example, could have a levy of 200%.... works for me, I drive a 6cyl. LOL

[Riverwind]

Or realistically , governments could force the automakers to develop engines that get a minimum of 100+ mileage. Currently your gas powered vehicle actually uses only 30% of the fuel you put in it, the rest is completely wasted.

100+mpg cars would be glorified tricyles. There are some basic laws of physics that require the consumption of fuel to go up as the size of the vehicle increases. The 30% figure you quote refers to the amount of energy in the gasoline that can be converted to kinetic energy. There are also physical limits on what can be achieved there too.

In any case, you clearly don't have a clue what is involved in producing the energy that you need to live your life so you really are not in a position to comment on what is possible or not. People who do understand the system know that solar and wind power can never provide enough power and no one wants nuclear power. That leaves gas or coal if we want electricty and no amount of whinging about GHGs is going to change that.

[capricorn]

Now, will Harper end the cap and trade and indicate that he doesn't believe in global warming?

Like you, I'm waiting.