The Difference between a Liberal and Conservative

Kitch · October 8, 2008

How much of that was you wanting to overcome your porblems and make something better for yourself? I am will to bet that you would have done it even without the government intervention because you strived to do it, much the same as I have.
The difference isn't that conservatives are heartless and will do away with social programs, this just isn't the case, most conservatives will admit the need for effective and targeted social programs for people who want the help and will make an effective use of it, instead of just abusing it.

Give a man a fish he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish he will feed himself for life.

You say ignorant things so you're getting an ignorant response here.

You seem like the reason why people can't stand conservatives. You sit there way up on your high horse, so high that you're out of touch with other people yet feel that because you look down on them you know what they're thinking and what they want and need. Get over yourself bud... and get over your bad grade. You don't know what your prof was thinking and you don't know what that other guy went through. I'd bet that you received a bad grade because your writing is atrocious and because your vision of the world is flawed.

Ignorance begets ignorance bud.

Kitch · October 8, 2008

You Jealousy is showing the fact is her father and grand father worked hard to create what they did, grow up and conrence yourself with what you do not what she does. After a generation or two acting like she does they with have destroyed the family name and its wealth.

Again, poor attempt at foresight and terrible writing. MAN you piss me off.

Kitch · October 8, 2008

I did my best to describe what the difference is between a liberal and a conservative and few people challenged me, so I guess I did a decent job.

I'd like to ask people to define socialism in an equally fair way. A lot of conservative people seem to imply that socialism is to them what capitalism is to the extreme lefties. What, exactly, is it, and why is it so bad? (It'd help me if you use a comparison... like a free market or mixed market or whatever is a reasonable comparison).

Alta4ever · October 8, 2008

Well said. How much does the government actually influence the economy anyway? CAN a government be blamed for a recession or take credit for good economic times?

It sure can effect the economy, look at the great depression the New Deal spending and intervetion turn a bad recession into a horrible depression. The key is to find what policies where the major contributors to a specific down turn. For instance the current US recesson can be traced all the way back to the Clinton adminstration, when the laws regarding lending in the US changed, and then you also have to look at the failed legislation from the Republican party that would have placed more regulation on the lenders and stopped the problem before it had started if not for Barney Frank and the House Democracts blocking the legislation.

Usually down economic down turns can be traced accross more then one government or administration, but the general public neither has the time nor the want to do this they look for the easy victim to pin this on.

Alta4ever · October 8, 2008

Again, poor attempt at foresight and terrible writing. MAN you piss me off.

Sorry I don't have the time in my day to proof read and spell check. Grab a chill pill MMMMAAAANNNN! :rolleyes:

Alta4ever · October 8, 2008

I did my best to describe what the difference is between a liberal and a conservative and few people challenged me, so I guess I did a decent job.
I'd like to ask people to define socialism in an equally fair way. A lot of conservative people seem to imply that socialism is to them what capitalism is to the extreme lefties. What, exactly, is it, and why is it so bad? (It'd help me if you use a comparison... like a free market or mixed market or whatever is a reasonable comparison).

SOCIALISM IS THE EQUAL SHARING OF MISERY.

Alta4ever · October 8, 2008

I did my best to describe what the difference is between a liberal and a conservative and few people challenged me, so I guess I did a decent job.
I'd like to ask people to define socialism in an equally fair way. A lot of conservative people seem to imply that socialism is to them what capitalism is to the extreme lefties. What, exactly, is it, and why is it so bad? (It'd help me if you use a comparison... like a free market or mixed market or whatever is a reasonable comparison).

Socialism is an ideology where private ownership is discouraged or outlawed. Government or society is in ownership of all resources and industry operates under a form of public ownership or nationalization. In the teaching of Marx it was a short period between the transformation from Capitalism to communism. Or in the case of progressives and older liberals(Woodrow Wilson, and Mussolini) the stepping stone to facism. What socialism has become around the world is a set of feel good interventionist policies, from people who think that little give in their freedoms will protect society from itself. Socialism has become a kind of charity for causes that could not get broad public support. Socialism is the government tring to creat fairness and equality (trying to end class struggle) , but in the end is far from equitable for all invovled, it drags us all down to lowest common denominator.

Edited October 8, 2008 by Alta4ever

Alta4ever · October 8, 2008

What are you talking about bud? Did a prof give you a bad grade and rather than taking responsibility for the work that you did you want to blame an entire ideology? Quite intelligent.

Funny that I got 98% on an similar paper a year prior.

jbg · October 8, 2008

I did my best to describe what the difference is between a liberal and a conservative and few people challenged me, so I guess I did a decent job.

One difference is that liberals tend to have red signs on their yards, conservatives blue. Another is that the Liberal Party tends to live off %tage rakeoffs from bogus advertising contracts.

Kitch · October 8, 2008

Funny that I got 98% on an similar paper a year prior.

Are you really trying to discuss the quality of your paper? As if I know your professor, as if you know what was going on in their head when they graded it (assuming he/she didn't flat out tell you that you were being discriminated against for a belief), as if I read your paper. Man, give your head a shake. I don't give a damn about your paper.

I made my statement because you replied to a well thought out, well balanced attempt at defining a couple of words by whining about a paper you wrote. You got a bad grade on a paper so liberals are bad? So that refutes my analogy?

Wow

Kitch · October 8, 2008

One difference is that liberals tend to have red signs on their yards, conservatives blue. Another is that the Liberal Party tends to live off %tage rakeoffs from bogus advertising contracts.

I wrote about the social/political perspectives, not the parties. I don't give a rats ass about the stupid, childish quasi-debate about the parties.

August1991 · October 8, 2008

As I said above, a liberal teacher understands that the entire class will benefit if everyone is well and if everyone has an equal opportunity to succeed... which DOESN'T necessarily mean equal treatment. Whereas the conservative teacher is the ultimate authority and tries to police students into order.

You have a evry curious view of "liberal" and "conservative" and wrt to teachers, you use it in a curious way.

You believe that "conservatives" are authoritarian?

Canada's education system is the ultimate authoritarian structure. It is illegal for a teacher not to be a member of a provincial union, the provincial ministries control the curricula, everyone is forced to contribute to this system through taxes and parents are obliged to send their children. Parents cannot choose the teachers for the children and can't even choose the school.

Canada's education system is an authoritarian, top-down Soviet system with the teachers' unions largely in control. The unions are bullies and any attempt to reign in their power meets with immediate bullying tactics.

Is it any wonder that schools now ressemble a bad marriage where the protagonists dislike each other but have no way to get out? The realtionships within many classrooms are based on coercion and not free choice.

And Kitch, you have the smug gall to claim to be a "liberal" teacher. There is little to no free choice in our school system. There is nothing liberal about it.

Lockestep · October 8, 2008

as political organizations I see little difference except the conservatives are better organized and funded this time.

as personalities a Liberal usually identifies with victims while a conservative identifies with achievers.

TCCK · October 8, 2008

All I can say at this late hour after pouring over tons of these posts is:

Oh my god I will be so glad when the election is over. All this bullshit is enough to make one want to puke.

The election results on Oct 14th will be the final word of how the people in this country want us to move forward. No if the politicians actually listen and follo through ith their promises maybe the next election we will see a very strong clear majority government to be given the seal of approval to do wide sweeping changes that ill eliminate national debt and build a stronger country with less crime and a better quality of living for ALL Canadians.

VOTE with your brains not your emotions and short term goals.

Argus · October 8, 2008

WRONG...
The gist of the story is that anyone who has money obviously has worked hard to earn it, and anyone who does not, is obviously lazy and does not deserve help.

You use absolutes but analogies rely on generalities. And generally speaking, excluding those very few hereditary wealthy, and the very few who are poor due to disabilities, the generality of the story will hold.

Thanks to a MAJORITY (read, NOT Conservative) of Canadians, the world's most compassionate people, I was given another chance. I made the most of it, and I think you'd find that many others would as well.

Canadians are not the world's most compassionate people, regardless of what the CBC might have told you. Monetary generosity generally relies on wealth. We've been fortunate enough that we could afford to give to others. Other peoples haven't been as fortunate. And most of those conservatives you have in mind give generously to the poor through the United Way, religious charities, and of course, from their pay cheques.

While many Conservatives use religion to their own means, I assure you, many are not Christian...

I'm certainly willing to admit that a number of people who have conservative social and fiscal views do not act with the generous spirit the Bible suggests. Are you willing to admit that not all those who are poor are poor because of some extraneous happenstance beyond their control? Because I have been poor. And most of those who were poor were so for a very good reason. And stayed poor for a very good reason. And that reason was invariably related to poor choices they made.

White Doors · October 8, 2008

I did my best to describe what the difference is between a liberal and a conservative and few people challenged me, so I guess I did a decent job.
I'd like to ask people to define socialism in an equally fair way. A lot of conservative people seem to imply that socialism is to them what capitalism is to the extreme lefties. What, exactly, is it, and why is it so bad? (It'd help me if you use a comparison... like a free market or mixed market or whatever is a reasonable comparison).

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

~Winston Churchill~

The intermediate stage between socialism and capitalism is alcoholism.

This is probably where Canada is right now

Edited October 8, 2008 by White Doors

Argus · October 8, 2008

I did my best to describe what the difference is between a liberal and a conservative and few people challenged me, so I guess I did a decent job.

How many challenges would you like? In any event, what you did was offer up an analogy of classroom teachers vs the entirety of the social order. Now you're pretending this holds true for society at large? Sorry, don't buy it. Especially not in the context of modern political movements which are all over the map insofar as liberal-conservative approaches go. The term "classical liberal" for example, is more in keeping with most of today's ©onservatives than with most of today's (L)iberals.

I'd like to ask people to define socialism in an equally fair way. A lot of conservative people seem to imply that socialism is to them what capitalism is to the extreme lefties. What, exactly, is it, and why is it so bad? (It'd help me if you use a comparison... like a free market or mixed market or whatever is a reasonable comparison).

I'm sorry. Did you mistakenly believe this was a classroom on political philosophy? Do we get to know what your qualifications are, teach?

Today's conservatives think little of the term "socialism" largely because it's associated with the likes of Jack Layton. The associated perils of this philosophy include taking huge amounts of money away from hard-working people in order to gift it to whatever groups the Laytonites believe are in some way disadvantaged. This includes artists, homosexuals, minorities of every description, the poor - no matter why they're poor, and no matter where in the world they're located. Other associated perils include coercive social engineering experiments and creeping big brotherism getting involved in every aspect of your private life to ensure it's lived in accordance with the proper political philosophies and beliefs. The moral prudery of the socialist is far more likely to result in coersive laws and regulations than the moral prudery of religious conservatives.

Argus · October 8, 2008

as political organizations I see little difference except the conservatives are better organized and funded this time.
as personalities a Liberal usually identifies with victims while a conservative identifies with achievers.

Except in crime, where conservatives identify with the victims while liberals see the criminal as the victim of society.

This is why Conservatives want to send particularly vicious teenage murderers to prison forever while Liberals, the NDP and the BQ all want to just hug the sweet lil tyke and then let him go with a gentle slap on the bottom.

White Doors · October 8, 2008

Liberals, the NDP and the BQ all want to just hug the sweet lil tyke and then let him go with a gentle slap on the bottom.

Classic! lol - thanks Argus

Kitch · October 8, 2008

How many challenges would you like? In any event, what you did was offer up an analogy of classroom teachers vs the entirety of the social order. Now you're pretending this holds true for society at large? Sorry, don't buy it.
Especially not in the context of modern political movements which are all over the map insofar as liberal-conservative approaches go. The term "classical liberal" for example, is more in keeping with most of today's ©onservatives than with most of today's (L)iberals.

I'm sorry. Did you mistakenly believe this was a classroom on political philosophy? Do we get to know what your qualifications are, teach?

Challenge me all you want, but I must admit, you said a LOT but only really made valid (but inaccurate) comments about the use of ONE of my two analogies. Mind you, I actually did say that this was my opinion about the definitions of two words... I never claimed anything to be the "truth". Nor did I pretend that my teacher analogy holds true absolutely. I KNOW what I said was a generalization. I REALLY don't mean to be insulting, but maybe you're so used to discussing these types of things in the quasi-debate fashion on Canadian politics which allow for illogical statements and logical fallacy. No offense intended... just read a little more carefully please.

Who are you to ridicule me for asking a sincere question, that was as unbiased as can be, after giving me a lesson on the origins of the word 'liberal'?

And your analysis of education in Canada is ridiculous. Are you a teacher? Involved with schools? Perhaps you have kids that are in schools? Well, none of that matters because what you said doesn't actually have anything to do with what I said about CLASSROOM MANAGEMENT! (Which is a nice way of saying dealing with and preventing misbehaviour). Teachers are members of a union and can't not be... which isn't true... only if they want to work in a publicly funded school, and there's a reason for it and it has to do with parents. The ministry dictates the curriculum... which is only partly true. I forget what else you said, but do either of these points have ANYTHING to do with how teachers manage their classroom? I AM one of the teachers who dislikes the limited freedom I have in terms of what I teach... which is not all THAT limited. Teachers in public schools need unions to back them when parents bring ridiculous lawsuits against them, and it does happen. There are other reasons, but that's a big one. Does that mean that we feel so restricted that we turn around and police our students? Why would that make sense? And how about you pick a course and pick up a curriculum document from the ministry... if you want I can send you a pdf of any one you want. I don't like them, but they don't restrict me as much as you seem to think they do.

My analogy defined two types of teachers (fully knowing that there's a spectrum and some that don't even fit on it!!!); those who believe that students OUGHT to behave all the time, and REACT when they don't, and those who KNOW that students will sometimes misbehave and so do what they can to prevent it/minimize distractions. They're not perfect descriptions of conservatives and liberals, but they're close and I DO go further with MY definitions, if you care to read my first post again. What do you think of my home owner analogy? Is that unfair?

By the way, don't rely on the media or hearsay about schools and how they work. You won't get an accurate picture. In fact, don't even take MY word! Compile many teacher opinions if you want an accurate idea. It just makes sense.

Kitch · October 8, 2008

By the way, what the hell do my qualifications have to do with anything? Anything that YOU said in that sentence in particular?

PoliticalCitizen · October 8, 2008

SOCIALISM IS THE EQUAL SHARING OF MISERY.

That's not true.

I lived in Socialism. We didn't have the latest consumer goods the West did but it was very far from misery.

Having said that we all know that pure Socialism cannot survive economically and is lacking development stimuli. It also tends to become increasingly rigid and burocratic.

This is why the benefits of Capitalism have to be combined with the benefits of Socialism so that power is shared between Corporations and People.

I think Canada has found its place somewhere in between (thanks to the Liberal party) but the existence of NDP signals that there's momentum for further shift to the left.

I think we should consider national child care and national universities to give a fairer opportunity to new immigrants and lower classes.

PoliticalCitizen · October 8, 2008

Classic! lol - thanks Argus

It is of course so much better to lock them in with the adult criminals so they would get raped for years.

White Doors · October 8, 2008

It is of course so much better to lock them in with the adult criminals so they would get raped for years.

Gilles?

Wild Bill · October 8, 2008

It is of course so much better to lock them in with the adult criminals so they would get raped for years.

I just can't understand how this bushwa keeps getting spread around!

No one has said anything about locking up violent young offenders with adult criminals. I'm not even sure if that would be legal! Separate facilities SUCH AS ARE ALREADY IN USE are obvious!

It's just an unfair debating trick. Those using it simply want to attack the Conservatives and are attaching an unproven assumption onto the main issue of getting tougher on youth crime.

I realize that politics is a blood sport but to me, the use of such tactics by any side goes to character...