McCain suspends campaign

[GostHacked]

One thing is for certain, if the bail out package is not approved and many of the major financial players in the US are allowed to go under, the republicans would have absolutely no chance of winning this election. You can spin a lot of things, but when the economy collapses under your watch, you are pretty much screwed.

Republicans are in the whitehouse, but the Dems have been the majority in congress/senate for the last few years. If it collapses it is all their faults for not averting it in the first place, and not putting more regulations on how banks lend out money. In the end, the US taxpayer is going to pay for this bail out either way. If there is no bail out, the US taxpayer suffers, if there is a bailout, they still suffer. Where the hell do you think all the money is comming from in order to pay it off??

The left and right are playing all of you for fools.

[bush_cheney2004]

Awesome, CANADA again. Spectacular. So apoligetic for the status quo. Ho hum.

So the whole election is meaningless when you state it like the way you did.

No, it is not meaningless if you have some legitimate skin in the game. First you discount the very act of voting in the US Congress on what is sure to be sea change legislation, then you express disdain for the way debates in a foreign country are executed in the first place.

Are things that boring for the Canadian federal election that is less than a month away?

So yeah, technically it is meaningless for you. Think of it as mere entertainment, as Canadian politics is for me.

[GostHacked]

No, it is not meaningless if you have some legitimate skin in the game. First you discount the very act of voting in the US Congress on what is sure to be sea change legislation, then you express disdain for the way debates in a foreign country are executed in the first place.

Are things that boring for the Canadian federal election that is less than a month away?

So yeah, technically it is meaningless for you. Think of it as mere entertainment, as Canadian politics is for me.

You are an idiot if you treat politics as entertainment. The US mimics hollywood entertainment so much to the extent it IS hollywood entertainment.

The new movie W comes to mind.

[stevoh]

Republicans are in the whitehouse, but the Dems have been the majority in congress/senate for the last few years. If it collapses it is all their faults for not averting it in the first place, and not putting more regulations on how banks lend out money.

Thats' not the perception the American public has, many are blaming the republicans for the current economic crisis, as poll numbers are indicating.

In the end, the US taxpayer is going to pay for this bail out either way. If there is no bail out, the US taxpayer suffers, if there is a bailout, they still suffer. Where the hell do you think all the money is comming from in order to pay it off??

7000 dollars from each and every American for this bail out package. A bail out package, that, like it or not, is now firmly associated with John McCain.

[bush_cheney2004]

You are an idiot if you treat politics as entertainment. The US mimics hollywood entertainment so much to the extent it IS hollywood entertainment.

The new movie W comes to mind.

Yea..it's a bitch, huh? Another member thinks US "culture" rules the world...not bad for a bunch of "idiots".

..and look who has his eyes glued to the "Hollywood" train wreck.

Edited September 25, 2008 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

...7000 dollars from each and every American for this bail out package. A bail out package, that, like it or not, is now firmly associated with John McCain.

I don't think you understand how the bailout works, but you are right about one thing...McCain and Biden have been around far longer than Obama!

[Liam]

Thats' not the perception the American public has, many are blaming the republicans for the current economic crisis, as poll numbers are indicating.

7000 dollars from each and every American for this bail out package. A bail out package, that, like it or not, is now firmly associated with John McCain.

I disagree that the bailout is now firmly associated with McCain. I think there will be plenty of blame/credit to go around once it's done. But I think the underlying problem will end up hurting the GOP and McCain in particular. After portraying himself for years as someone who favors deregulation, it's very difficult for McCain to now claim the regulator mantle and not hear guffaws at the same time.

[bush_cheney2004]

I disagree that the bailout is now firmly associated with McCain. I think there will be plenty of blame/credit to go around once it's done. But I think the underlying problem will end up hurting the GOP and McCain in particular. After portraying himself for years as someone who favors deregulation, it's very difficult for McCain to now claim the regulator mantle and not hear guffaws at the same time.

Agreed...McCain may suffer over the larger issue of deregulation, but the bailout is certainly not associated with him. The present circumstance has a long and sordid bi-partisan history, and frankly, the US Congress has been asleep at the wheel for a long time.

[GostHacked]

Yea..it's a bitch, huh? Another member thinks US "culture" rules the world...not bad for a bunch of "idiots".

..and look who has his eyes glued to the "Hollywood" train wreck.

Well, MSM treats it as such. I do admit to watching CNN, Fox, MSNBC. But I also have great websites to visit, just as you do. So guess what, we are both watching the same thing. But I left my rose coloured glasses at home.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Let's be clear about a couple of things here.

First, there are many culpable parties to this economic crisis. It's obtuse to say it's "George Bush's fault" or "the republican's fault". Yes. I am sure the republicans and George Bush all conspired to make people who couldn't afford it borrow money and speculate on real estate.

The fact that Joe Blow got a NINJA loan (no income no job no assets) to buy a house in California he thought would go up in price, but didn't, isn't Geoerge Bush's fault. Financial institutions loaned money to many who shouldn't weren't creditworthy. Individuals borrowed money they couldn't pay back. Both sides did so on a false assumption that real estate always goes up. Financial institutions sold many of these mortgages as "safe" securities on the open market, often times as leveraged products. People bought these securities without doing proper due diligence. There are many different culpable parties to this mess.

But regardless of blame, last Wednesday, the credit markets in the USA seized up and almost ground to a halt - meaning there would be virtually no lending (and basically a halt to economic activity).

THAT is when the US government stepped in and said "we've got to normailize the credit markets by buying up this bad debt". Without confirdence in the banking / financial / lending system, there can be no economy.

With the announcement of the rescue plan, the TSX (Canada's stock market) rose over 800 points in one day. I believe the largest single one day rise in history.

As we sit, financial markets AROUND THE WORLD are waiting with baited breath to see if these toxic debt assets will be "freed" by the US government.

THIS IS A TIME SENSITIVE MATTER. it needs to be solved in a matter of days.

John McCain's presence in Washington is important, because most of the "free market thinkers" in Washington are republicans, who are actively voting against the rescue plan. Many believe McCain's presence and influence as the Republican presidential candidate can help make a deal and get a bill passed.

All of the above is not a matter of opinion, but rather fact.

As far as the willy nillys worried aobut a debate, believe me, everyone will get a chance to hear these two candidates debate. If not on Friday, then probably early next week. However the current state of the financial crisis takes priority. Quit acting like you won't get a chance to see the two debate. What difference is a few days gonna make? It will certainly make a big difference on the markets of the world.

The democrats have their tights in a knot because they know that if they debate friday, they can claim that Obama is the man to lead the country out of economic trouble. But if the debate is delayed until after McCain et. al. solve the probalem and get enough votes to pass the rescue plan, then McCain will be able to stand on that stage and say "actually, as per last week, I just did solve the problem".

McCain has made the correct move.

Edited September 25, 2008 by JerrySeinfeld

[stevoh]

But if the debate is delayed until after McCain et. al. solve the probalem and get enough votes to pass the rescue plan, then McCain will be able to stand on that stage and say "actually, as per last week, I just did solve the problem".

McCain has made the correct move.

So, the problem he is solving is putting unconvinced republicans in line.

Why does he have to convince anyone of anything when the alternative to the bail out is the collapse of the economy? Are free market thinkers so blinded by ideology that they would rather see the majority of americans suffer? Why isn't the republican party putting "country first" ?

[JerrySeinfeld]

So, the problem he is solving is putting unconvinced republicans in line.

Why does he have to convince anyone of anything when the alternative to the bail out is the collapse of the economy? Are free market thinkers so blinded by ideology that they would rather see the majority of americans suffer? Why isn't the republican party putting "country first" ?

Why? Because the sky is green.

Now back to the issue of solving the problem....

[GostHacked]

McCain got there just in time to see a bailout plan happen. You think that McCain and Obama were really needed for this? There was going to be a decision made on it either way. And it was going to be fast.

But OMG

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/25/cam...wrap/index.html

(CNN) -- Sens. John McCain and Barack Obama arrived at the White House on Thursday afternoon for a high-level meeting with President Bush and House and Senate leaders to discuss the $700 billion economic recovery plan.

Crisis over, back to the debates!!! Looks like Obama did not need to suspend anything to be in Washington. Niot much of a consolation prize, I admit....

[WIP]

Let's be clear about a couple of things here.

First, there are many culpable parties to this economic crisis. It's obtuse to say it's "George Bush's fault" or "the republican's fault". Yes. I am sure the republicans and George Bush all conspired to make people who couldn't afford it borrow money and speculate on real estate.

The fact that Joe Blow got a NINJA loan (no income no job no assets) to buy a house in California he thought would go up in price, but didn't, isn't Geoerge Bush's fault. Financial institutions loaned money to many who shouldn't weren't creditworthy. Individuals borrowed money they couldn't pay back. Both sides did so on a false assumption that real estate always goes up. Financial institutions sold many of these mortgages as "safe" securities on the open market, often times as leveraged products. People bought these securities without doing proper due diligence. There are many different culpable parties to this mess.

Yes it is George Bush's fault! Or maybe it's the fault of Republicans who hate intellectuals so much they wanted the guy they would rather have a beer with, to be president. Harry Truman had a sign on his desk: "The Buck Stops Here," and this crisis, the avalanche of war debts, are all on George Bush's watch. All of this Republican blame-shifting about FannieMae and FreddieMac giving out sub-prime loans, misses the point that he was the one who had the ultimate responsibility to regulate banking, stock and insurance markets. And if he decided instead, to just deregulate and let them run loose, allowing deregulation and even worse -- new insurance products such as the credit default swaps, that have bankrupted AIG, to be sold in a totally unregulated environment, that's George Bush's fault too!

But regardless of blame, last Wednesday, the credit markets in the USA seized up and almost ground to a halt - meaning there would be virtually no lending (and basically a halt to economic activity).

Are you surprised that the markets have seized up? For years, the U.S. economy has been growing by shuffling paper around and not producing real goods and services; and while the national debt and personal debts have skyrocketed, Americans have purchased consumer products from China and elsewhere, and payed for them by turning over control of their economy to foreign investors, so now that the chickens are coming home to roost, the economy is at risk because it may have reached the limit to its ability to borrow more money.

This "solution" they're working on in Washington is not a solution to fix the problems in the U.S. economy, it's only a solution to find a way to keep on borrowing. Somewhere down the line, you and your children and grandchildren are going to be stuck under this multi-trillion dollar debt load like many third world nations have had when they defaulted on loans from the World Bank or the IMF. The biggest mistake would be to think that this deal to buy bad debt will turn the economy around.

The free market "thinkers" like John McCain, have followed the philosophy of George Bush, that just allowing financial institutions to regulate themselves, that the market will correct itself and start growing again! Well, history keeps repeating itself -- the Keynsian liberals who ran government economic policy until they reached too far in the 70's, have been replaced by the economic libertarians, who got carried away with deregulation, and have set up a situation reminiscent of the one Herbert Hoover created when he planted the seeds for the Great Depression. Like it or not, the era of unbridled free markets has come to an end..........maybe even for the next few generations before this mess is totally forgotten.

[JerrySeinfeld]

This "solution" they're working on in Washington is not a solution to fix the problems in the U.S. economy, it's only a solution to find a way to keep on borrowing. Somewhere down the line, you and your children and grandchildren are going to be stuck under this multi-trillion dollar debt load like many third world nations have had when they defaulted on loans from the World Bank or the IMF. The biggest mistake would be to think that this deal to buy bad debt will turn the economy around.

Not entirely true. Look at the Canadian banks' write downs of south american sovereign debt in the '80's. The banks wrote those down to zero, only to find in subsequent years that most of those loans were paid off. Look at the savings and loan solution and the creation of Resolution Trust, which bought impaired assets and actually made money in the end once those asset returned to reasonable valuations.

Given the panic in the marketplace right now, many decent assets are compressed in value or not even getting bids. The government has the luxury of time and patience - without the requirement to deliver earnings gains on a quarterly basis (as most publically traded corporations do) ...can absorb this shock and hold assets other institutions are afraid of until the market returns to working in an orderly fashion. The impaired assets are mostly suffering due to a lack of confidence, horrible market conditions, timing and psychology. Those institutions that would normally be buyers and recapializers aren't able to finance the purchase of assets due to the seized up credit markets.

Edited September 25, 2008 by JerrySeinfeld

[Guest American Woman]

Senator McCain said he is confident Congress and the Bush administration can agree on a financial bailout plan within the next few days.

I cannot carry on a campaign as though this dangerous situation had not occurred or as though a solution were at hand, which it clearly is not."

So if McCain has confidence the Bush administration and Congress can agree on a financial bailout plan within the next few days, why is he saying a solution is clearly not at hand?

Seems to me he's afraid to debate Obama, and if that's an example of what he would come up with, I don't blame him.

Not long ago he was saying the economy was stronger than it was eight years ago. Then he said the country is in such an economical crisis that he can't even attend the debates. Then he said he has complete confidence in Bush and Congress to agree on a solution, "within a few days," no less. Then he says a solution clearly is not at hand.

I have to say, the only one making sense is Obama:

"Our election is in 40 days, our economy is in crisis and our nation is fighting two wars abroad," he said. "The American people, I believe, deserve to hear directly from myself and Senator McCain about how we intend to lead our country. The times are too serious to put our campaigns on hold or to ignore the full range of issues that the next president will face."

link

[stevoh]

Why? Because the sky is green.

Now back to the issue of solving the problem....

Wouldn't understanding why they continue to fight against the vote despite the dire consequences lead to a potential solution? I imagine that is part of McCains current approach.

On another note, McCain has supposedly suspended his campaign, but Palin answered reporters questions yesterday in her first Q and A:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/25/pal...edia/index.html

What does suspending a campaign to focus on economic issues mean when a QandA with reporters on other issues can still happen with Palin? Sounds like campaigning to me.

[GostHacked]

Are you surprised that the markets have seized up? For years, the U.S. economy has been growing by shuffling paper around and not producing real goods and services; and while the national debt and personal debts have skyrocketed, Americans have purchased consumer products from China and elsewhere, and payed for them by turning over control of their economy to foreign investors, so now that the chickens are coming home to roost, the economy is at risk because it may have reached the limit to its ability to borrow more money.

This "solution" they're working on in Washington is not a solution to fix the problems in the U.S. economy, it's only a solution to find a way to keep on borrowing. Somewhere down the line, you and your children and grandchildren are going to be stuck under this multi-trillion dollar debt load like many third world nations have had when they defaulted on loans from the World Bank or the IMF. The biggest mistake would be to think that this deal to buy bad debt will turn the economy around.

We are always borrowing more money. Where does this money come from? Countries are so indebted to each other because of Globalization and interconnections on all levels between countries. We owe the US, the US owes Canada ect ect. Asia owns much of the US debt right now.

It kind of reminds me of a girl I used to know. She had 3 credit cards she rotated her debt on, pay one off with the other. But she does not get any further ahead because she is constantly shuffling the debt. She will never get out of debt this way. If she ever misses a payment, you now have interest applied. Translate that up to the federal level and the amount of money constantly being shuffled and transfered increases dramaticaly.

Ecomomics is not my strong point, but the more I look into it, the more it just does not make sense to me?

[GostHacked]

Wouldn't understanding why they continue to fight against the vote despite the dire consequences lead to a potential solution? I imagine that is part of McCains current approach.

On another note, McCain has supposedly suspended his campaign, but Palin answered reporters questions yesterday in her first Q and A:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/25/pal...edia/index.html

What does suspending a campaign to focus on economic issues mean when a QandA with reporters on other issues can still happen with Palin? Sounds like campaigning to me.

So much for suspending it It was purely a political move and not a move of a true leader.

[bush_cheney2004]

So much for suspending it It was purely a political move and not a move of a true leader.

Looks like it is working.....Obama has been marginalized while the action belongs to stalling Republicans...their email and phone calls want somebody's ass!

[Guest American Woman]

Wouldn't understanding why they continue to fight against the vote despite the dire consequences lead to a potential solution? I imagine that is part of McCains current approach.

On another note, McCain has supposedly suspended his campaign, but Palin answered reporters questions yesterday in her first Q and A:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/25/pal...edia/index.html

What does suspending a campaign to focus on economic issues mean when a QandA with reporters on other issues can still happen with Palin? Sounds like campaigning to me.

Did you see Palin's interview with Katie Couric?

Couric: You've said, quote, "John McCain will reform the way Wall Street does business." Other than supporting stricter regulations of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years ago, can you give us any more example of his leading the charge for more oversight?

Palin: I think that the example that you just cited, with his warnings two years ago about Fannie and Freddie - that, that's paramount. That's more than a heck of a lot of other senators and representatives did for us.

Couric: But he's been in Congress for 26 years. He's been chairman of the powerful Commerce Committee. And he has almost always sided with less regulation, not more.

Palin: He's also known as the maverick though, taking shots from his own party, and certainly taking shots from the other party. Trying to get people to understand what he's been talking about - the need to reform government.

Couric: But can you give me any other concrete examples? Because I know you've said Barack Obama is a lot of talk and no action. Can you give me any other examples in his 26 years of John McCain truly taking a stand on this?

Palin: I can give you examples of things that John McCain has done, that has shown his foresight, his pragmatism, and his leadership abilities. And that is what America needs today.

Couric: I'm just going to ask you one more time - not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation.

Palin: I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you.

link

Actually, it was more like "I-I-I-I'll try ta find ya some and I'll bring 'em to ya" (link), but you get the picture. She obviously doesn't know of one other example.

Edited September 25, 2008 by American Woman

[kengs333]

Don't matter... McCain's gonna lose...

[sharkman]

These are typical liberal responses. When Palin first was nominated and no immediate interviews with the MSM were scheduled, leftwingers on this forum were complaining loudly that she must face the hard questions and if she didn't she wouldn't be vetted properly (although dozens of media types, lawyers and the like were air dropped into Alaska to dig up such nuggets such as her recent baby was actually her daughter's, etc). Now that she's being made available to the MSM, surprise surprise, liberals don't like her anyway.

Meanwhile, Biden is receiving a free pass on any scrutiny to such an extent that his recent gaffe referencing the depression and the president who saw it implode was mostly ignored (He named the wrong president and claimed he went on TV to calm the public when TV hadn't been invented yet.) Palin, on the other hand, gets roasted for clothes, glasses, hair, accomplishments, and anything else the left can make up.

I would pay big money to see her win just to stick it to the snitty left who would probably then begin a civil war based on paper cup usage.

Edited September 26, 2008 by sharkman

[bush_cheney2004]

Don't matter... McCain's gonna lose...

Let's just save this for posterity.....

[peter_puck]

Someone is trying to weasel out of a debate he knows he can't win.

A debate against Obama on your strength when you are down in the polls ? I don't think he wants to weasel out of that debate. Besides, he was only asking to pospone it. His problem is this economic thing is killing him and he needed to do something.