Canada-EU trade proposal rivals scope of NAFTA

August1991 · September 24, 2008

US is the dominant country in North america, so i will say mainly the US.

The US is 300 million people doing many different things. They do not act as a dominant block when it comes to trade. That was my point above with the example of some guy in Vermont who hates Bush and only buys French wine. America has millions of such people with every possible permutation in their opinions or likes and dislikes.

I'm drawing the conclusions to make discussion simpler.

No, you are turning the collective actions of 300 million people into the supposed concerted, organized actions of one person. When it comes to discussions of international trade, that doesn't render the discussion simpler. It renders it pretty much useless.

I would prefer that trade barriers come down all over the world, remember to trade you have to be able to generate. If another country is impeding our ability to generate and trade, said country should pay the price.

Blueblood, what you provide to the outside world is your choice. Each American makes a similar choice.

Individuals choose, not countries. The sum of all these individual choices is what constitutes a country's choice. In the case of the US, Canada and Europe, there is very little organized about it.

For example, if you were to argue that the US Fed can influence the exchange rate and this in turn would affect how millions of Americans make purchasing decisions, then I might find your argument persuasive. But frankly, I don't think the US Fed can influence the exchange rate that much.

Edited September 24, 2008 by August1991

cybercoma · September 24, 2008

If there's any logic to your idea (and there may be) then governments should restrict trade between people in Calgary and people in Saskatchewan on the basis that it makes people in both places better off.
There may be occasions where governments should forbid trade between people in the name of some better, long term moral good.

I fail to see how such occasions follow strictly racial or national lines.

We find it abhorent if the government restricts trade between blacks and whites but many find it perfectly acceptable to restrict trade between, say, Canadians and Bangladeshis.

I can't say that I disagree based on what you say about drawing lines, however, practically speaking if opening up trade harms domestic jobs and drives unemployment up (if companies can just open up shop somewhere that they pay people $0.03/hr then trade into Canada), is it really such a good idea? I'm completely on the fence about trade being completely unrestricted around the globe, not that there aren't positive reasons for allowing it, but those positives have to be weighed against the negatives and I don't know enough about it to do that.

whowhere · September 27, 2008

For example, if you were to argue that the US Fed can influence the exchange rate and this in turn would affect how millions of Americans make purchasing decisions, then I might find your argument persuasive. But frankly, I don't think the US Fed can influence the exchange rate that much.

If the US and Canada for that matter wanted to influence exchange rates they could. Back in the eighties and nineties Canada had a monetary fund used to buy and sell the Canadian dollar to reflect where they wanted the dollar. In recent years, the politicians do nothing to influence the value of the dollar. What it comes down to is what the government wants to do. In current years, not much.

With the credit crisis and the unjustified run up in real estates values over the years demonstates the clueless wonders pupeteering the economies of North America. Wall street and Bay street is effectively fired. They have demonstated they can't manage themselves out of a wet paper bag and are in need of Government intervention. The US has been driven to insolvency and Canada has been driven to a resource economy by the Bay street banking sector losers.

What has to be realized is Canada is a naturally wealthy Country. What makes Canada wealthy is a small population and vasts amounts of land and resources. Relatively, the US is also wealthy, as they have alot of natural resources to draw upon if they should ever decide to shut their borders to the world and become a closed economy. The problem with Americans and Canadians is that they are lazy and a corrupt lot. The media trumpets "work" as demeaning and something to be ashamed of? With media like that, who needs enemies?

Unfortunately for Europe they are getting the natural gas and other energy resoures from Russia. It appears Russia is resorting back to its old self more and more. Not good for the future of world peace. From what is stated in this thread Europe is a restrictive economy. Canada is in a position to help Europe with its energy requirments and alleviate its dependence on Russia. Canada has a historical problem of converting raw resources into finished goods. Signing a Trade agreement with Europe will go a long way in helping Canada overcome its mental challenges and historical heritage problems.

In the new world financial dynamic a trade agreement between Canada and Europe would be good and would somewhat weaken the strangling grip the US has on Canada.

craiger · September 28, 2008

The posibility of a NAU is quet likely. In the states they will be down to 4 major banks, the land has also been aquired to build a super highway into winnipeg. Everything predicted has become true it sickens me but by 2012 we will be in full force of a NAU. Ron Paul is a smart man you cannot back your curency with paper the federal reserve needs assets or gold to back the curency.

Those that think Harper is inocent, should question why he held a secretive meeting with leaders of Mexico and USA under the united prosperity act. The millitary that was brought in for such meeting is scary.

Possibilty of integrating with the EU to make a new world order is likely. I will never forget about my 2nd grade teacher 30 years ago educating us about this. We will have no currency we have today but chips implanted in us and when the elites choose they will simply turn us off from the rest of the world

Edited September 28, 2008 by craiger

August1991 · September 28, 2008

I can't say that I disagree based on what you say about drawing lines, however, practically speaking if opening up trade harms domestic jobs and drives unemployment up (if companies can just open up shop somewhere that they pay people $0.03/hr then trade into Canada), is it really such a good idea? I'm completely on the fence about trade being completely unrestricted around the globe, not that there aren't positive reasons for allowing it, but those positives have to be weighed against the negatives and I don't know enough about it to do that.

Pay people $0.03/hr (3 cents per hour)?

I have a more radical idea, Cybercoma. Imagine if Canadian workers had to compete against a foreign country that paid its workers absolutely nothing! How can Canadians compete against slave labour? Surely, we'll be impoverished.

And yet, the Sun supplies us with heat and light (competing with all the large energy corporations including our hydros) and the Sun charges us absolutely nothing for this service.

If the Sun provides us with light and heat for free, how is that wages on Earth have not been competed down to zero? How can any energy company compete with a provider like the Sun?

I suggest that we should immediately start a petition to prohibit the "dumping" of sunlight into our markets. No one should have the right to enjoy sunlight. Clearly, the Sun is selling light and heat below cost and this will ruin our domestic energy industries, put our honest energy workers out of work and create unemployment.

The Sun is engaging in unfair trade practices. I suggest that we all, in solidarity, boycott the Sun.

With the credit crisis and the unjustified run up in real estates values over the years demonstates the clueless wonders pupeteering the economies of North America. Wall street and Bay street is effectively fired. They have demonstated they can't manage themselves out of a wet paper bag and are in need of Government intervention. The US has been driven to insolvency and Canada has been driven to a resource economy by the Bay street banking sector losers.

WhoWhdere, there are 6 billion people on this planet and they, through their individual actions, "manage" in many ways the world economy.

To take an example, if many people in the world decided that they didn't want US dollars, it would be impossible for the US government (even with access to a $700 billion line of credit) to take an opposite position and defend the dollar.

I will never forget about my 2nd grade teacher 30 years ago educating us about this. We will have no currency we have today but chips implanted in us and when the elites choose they will simply turn us off from the rest of the world

I suggest that you check up on your Grade 2 teacher. I have heard that "they" really did implant chips into children's brains/teeth in the 1960s. Edited September 28, 2008 by August1991

craiger · September 28, 2008

WhoWhdere, there are 6 billion people on this planet and they, through their individual actions, "manage" in many ways the world economy.
To take an example, if many people in the world decided that they didn't want US dollars, it would be impossible for the US government (even with access to a $700 billion line of credit) to take an opposite position and defend the dollar.

I suggest that you check up on your Grade 2 teacher. I have heard that "they" really did implant chips into children's brains/teeth in the 1960s.

she has been dead for a long time RIP Ms.Bush. She was a wise woman for you to stand and condem her teachings when she is dead are uncalled for!.

your also very uneducated about the sun friend a simple google search will show that they have very suffisticated technology using the sun and a stirling engine to produce enouph power to power citys. This summer and quet expensive I ran solar panals to power my home.

It is a proven fact oil company's have lobbied congress and made negative effects in energy production. support your argument you will lose!

Edited September 28, 2008 by craiger

whowhere · September 28, 2008

WhoWhdere, there are 6 billion people on this planet and they, through their individual actions, "manage" in many ways the world economy.

I can tell you are clueless idiot. Were the afghan's able to manage themselves under the taliban? How about the cuban's under fidel castrol? How about the population fringes of India and China? India and China have a pool of labour to exploit and these workers get little compensation for their efforts. These products find themselves on the shelves of Walmart and other stores. Businesseses in North America can no longer afford to have a conscious because exploitation is the new way of business. Who's fault is that?? The political and bureacratic trash at the helm of North America's economy.

Governments control the rules. The US has 90% of the world's military resources at their fingertips. They have a congress and political structure in place to impose the government will on society and businesses if they so choose. All is lost when the governments around the world becomes corrupt and they will not maintain the rule of law. That is essentially what has happened. Governments have allowed businesses to defraud the public and wipe out the wealth of many, and break laws along the way. Instead of providing a bailout package, governments should be indicting and sending people to prison for their actions/Or provide the bailout package then start indicting people and sending them to prison.