Is it just me...

[Moonbox]

What about Iran, though? Would Harper's Canada support another liberation mission? Not on the ground, granted (Harper's got that wonderful excuse of Afghanistan for another few years), but in democratic spirit? As war (sorry, "right to defend") in Lebanon, separation of Kosovo, Georgia?

No. I can almost guarantee Harper wouldn't support a mission against Iran. Why? Because he knows that Canadians (almost 100% of them) wouldn't support that either. Regardless of what you think, he's not an idiot.

Bringing up an issue like that is just another fear mongering tactic to provoke a negative response. Harper hasn't done anything with gay or abortion rights has he? He says he doesn't really believe in them himself, but he's smart enough to know that the PM should not govern contrary to what Canadians at large want or feel.

Try again?

[Shakeyhands]

Comparing Canada's CPC to the USA's Republican party is about as out of touch with reality as would be comparing Canada's NDP or Liberals with Chinese Communism.

I'm pretty sure the Republican party is somehow associated with "the conservative movement"

"[Y]our country [the USA], and particularly your conservative movement, is a light and an inspiration to people in this country and across the world."

- Conservative leader Stephen Harper, then vice-president of the National Citizens Coalition, in a June 1997 Montreal meeting of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing American think tank.

[jdobbin]

I doubt it. Dion's riding covers Cartierville/Cote Vetu/VSL. His seat is safe.

Indeed, one of the reasons that I have never underestimated Dion is that for a guy from Quebec City, he negotiated a safe seat from Chretien. Dion's father was no fool.

Dion will not give this up without a fight.

Based on the trends of the moment, I am still predicting a massive Tory majority and I do see seats being lost in Quebec.

192 seats for the Tories. Even if Dion survives, he probably will wish he hadn't.

[myata]

Why? Because he knows that Canadians (almost 100% of them) wouldn't support that either. Regardless of what you think, he's not an idiot.

...

Harper hasn't done anything with gay or abortion rights has he? He says he doesn't really believe in them himself, but he's smart enough to know that the PM should not govern contrary to what Canadians at large want or feel.

Try again?

Of course, he did not. Because he couldn't. The question is, will he, if he gets his coveted majority? Answer: he might (judging by all the sneaky moves around environment, death penalty he's made so far) if he thinks that Canadians can be kept in the dark, or bribed into accepting it.

Which is just as well. If we were in it (progressive laws, environmental efficiency, independent international policy) only for the sake of self gratitude, positive self image, we'd better accept the reality, sit on that couch, watch the box and count the beans in the RRSP, voting in anybody who'd promise more.

Edited September 8, 2008 by myata

[Moonbox]

Again, it's the same old crap people have been trying to scare everyone with for years.

Think it through.

Canadians don't....want....anything to do with that sort of crap.

We live in a democracy. If Harper were to mess with Iran, abortion laws, gay rights or anything of the sort he'd be left with a constituency calling for his head.

He's able to see the issue through from point A to point B. If he WERE to try and pass that sort of legislation in majority, he and his party would never be re-elected. Providing his cabinet would go along with it (they wouldn't) and provided the Senate would allow it (they wouldn't) at the very worst he'd pass legislation that would be immediately repealed when his party is defeated at the next election.

So what you're basically saying is that Harper is going to commit political suicide and his whole party is going to fall on their swords with him so that he can implement incredibly unpopular policy for maybe 3-4 years and have it all reversed thereafter? He'd accomplish nothing in the end.

Please, next time you're going to come up with that sort of balogna, think it through. A---->B. Somehow you're getting the rest of the alphabet mixed in there on your way. Either that or you're just not thinking at all.

[myata]

That's a very simplistic way to put it. Harper's strategy could be planned out for a long time, as a line of small steps at a time:

- a bit of death penalty here (for Canadians convicted abroad);

- some ostensibly innocent tweaking with women's reproductive rights there;

- a minor change of position on the international stage (Lebanon, Kosovo, Kyoto);

- sprinkled with a bit of scaremongering about crime (while totally ignoring real and practical tools to fight it) and economy (having inherited record surpluses now all but squandered);

All's quiet, everybody can go back to sleep. And when the country is thoroughly submerged into navel gazing and conditioned to the right state of fear (whether internal crime or external threat doesn't really matter that much), it'd naturally turn to voting social conservative, and maybe even look more favourably at their core policies.

[blueblood]

That's a very simplistic way to put it. Harper's strategy could be planned out for a long time, as a line of small steps at a time:

- a bit of death penalty here (for Canadians convicted abroad);

- some ostensibly innocent tweaking with women's reproductive rights there;

- a minor change of position on the international stage (Lebanon, Kosovo, Kyoto);

- sprinkled with a bit of scaremongering about crime (while totally ignoring real and practical tools to fight it) and economy (having inherited record surpluses now all but squandered);

All's quiet, everybody can go back to sleep. And when the country is thoroughly submerged into navel gazing and conditioned to the right state of fear (whether internal crime or external threat doesn't really matter that much), it'd naturally turn to voting social conservative, and maybe even look more favourably at their core policies.

Trudeau did that in the 70's with semi socialism. It gave Mulroney the biggest majority ever.

As for scare mongering, Dobbin is right, the MB tories tried it and lost, the fed libs tried it and lost. Scare mongering does not work in Canada, let it die.

A majority is not the key to the Candy store and the federal PC's found that out the hard way, Harper won't make that mistake twice.

It's time for some people to start laying off the pot, tinfoil hats, and toasters.

[jdobbin]

As for scare mongering, Dobbin is right, the MB tories tried it and lost, the fed libs tried it and lost. Scare mongering does not work in Canada, let it die.

Seems like it is happening on both sides now. The Tories have been claiming that the Liberals are raising the GST and ending the child tax benefit. The Liberals have claimed that the Tories will re-open the abortion issue.

There is nothing wrong with putting the other party on the defensive but this mudslinging and it usually hurts both sides.

An example of putting another party on the defensive is asking: Will Mr. Dion promise not to raise the GST if he forms a government? It begs an answer. However, it isn't as fun as saying "Mr. Dion will raise the GST because he is a lowdown dirty scumsucker." Problem is that the person that makes that sort of comment usually sounds like a bully and scaremonger.

Edited September 9, 2008 by jdobbin

[blueblood]

Seems like it is happening on both sides now. The Tories have been claiming that the Liberals are raising the GST and ending the child tax benefit. The Liberals have claimed that the Tories will re-open the abortion issue.

There is nothing wrong with putting the other party on the defensive but this mudslinging and it usually hurts both sides.

An example of putting another party on the defensive is asking: Will Mr. Dion promise not to raise the GST if he forms a government? It begs an answer. However, it isn't as fun as saying "Mr. Dion will raise the GST because he is a lowdown dirt scumsucker." Problem is that the person that sort of comment usually sounds like a bully and scaremonger.

Not to mention not being taken seriously. Some people don't see the line.

It's like saying Harper is going to put soldiers on the streets or the MB tories and the crime thing. Am I going to take that seriously, no.

[jbg]

I suppose this has been mentioned elsewhere, but the Liberals still don't have candidates in thirty or so ridings in Quebec from what I understand...

They needn't bother outside of 514.

[jbg]

The US is so right wing that even the democrats would be 10x more conservative than Canada's Conservative party.

You are correct about the US being right-wing. Conservatism oozes from the side streets of small-town America, almost from the very soil.

The rest of your statement is not true. The Democrats are pretty far left, and are out of touch with the country. that is why, in this election, they will fail to retake the White House despite Bush's lack of overwhelming popularity.

[jbg]

192 seats for the Tories. Even if Dion survives, he probably will wish he hadn't.

Same way Turner didn't enjoy his second go-round?