myata Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 CTV: Liberal MP to sit as Green Welcome news. Welcome new federal party. There's no excuse now to have Greens excluded from the debates. New and hopefully, fresh air is much welcome in the stale federal politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maldon_road Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 CTV: Liberal MP to sit as GreenWelcome news. Welcome new federal party. There's no excuse now to have Greens excluded from the debates. New and hopefully, fresh air is much welcome in the stale federal politics. I never watched with four because invariably it was just a babble. It'll be even worse with five. Good news for Harper. May will pick up votes from the Libs and Dips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normanchateau Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Good news for Harper. Good news for Dion as well. MP Blair Wilson was told by the Liberals that he could not run for the Liberal nomination because of his personal, legal and financial troubles. Dion must be relieved that he's rid of Blair Wilson. Dion needed Blair Wilson like Harper needed Garth Turner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 The Liberals won that riding by less than 1000 votes over the Conservatives last election. The Greens came a distant fourth. Should be interesting the next time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_puck Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 CTV: Liberal MP to sit as GreenWelcome news. Welcome new federal party. There's no excuse now to have Greens excluded from the debates. New and hopefully, fresh air is much welcome in the stale federal politics. They are picking up a MP that the *Liberals* rejected for ethical reasons. He is joining the Greens because nobody else will take him. Garth Turner would have fit, this just looks like hypocritical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
normanchateau Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 I wonder why Elizabeth May would invite a slimy politician with Blair Wilson's legal and financial problems into her party. It could result in a decline in the Green vote Canada-wide. I expect Wilson's seat will go to the Conservatives but nation-wide, the Liberals may pick up votes from the Greens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maldon_road Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 I wonder why Elizabeth May would invite a slimy politician with Blair Wilson's legal and financial problems into her party. It could result in a decline in the Green vote Canada-wide.I expect Wilson's seat will go to the Conservatives but nation-wide, the Liberals may pick up votes from the Greens. What May should do is to withdraw all her candidates and tell her supporters to vote Liberal. The GHG vote is going to split three ways. As I said before the winner here is Harper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 What May should do is to withdraw all her candidates and tell her supporters to vote Liberal. The GHG vote is going to split three ways. As I said before the winner here is Harper. Since there are a lot of conservatives who are green, how do you figure that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ontario Loyalist Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 I never watched with four because invariably it was just a babble. It'll be even worse with five.Good news for Harper. May will pick up votes from the Libs and Dips. If the Americans can manage an orderly and informative televised debate for candidates for a party's presidential candidacy, then why can't we manage to add one more party to the debate? The Green Party is a major party now and has the right to participate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ontario Loyalist Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 What May should do is to withdraw all her candidates and tell her supporters to vote Liberal. The GHG vote is going to split three ways. As I said before the winner here is Harper. Actually, why don't the Liberals not run candidates in some strong Green ridings so that the Greens can have their rightful place in Parlaiment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 If the Americans can manage an orderly and informative televised debate for candidates for a party's presidential candidacy, then why can't we manage to add one more party to the debate? The Green Party is a major party now and has the right to participate. I wouldn't count my chickens, if I were you. Back at the end of the 80's Reform elected Deb Gray as their first sitting MP, in a by-election. The other parties REFUSED to allow Reform in on the televised debates! Said that one MP was nowhere near enough to matter. The precedent was set. Don't be surprised if the incumbent parties stick to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ontario Loyalist Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 I wouldn't count my chickens, if I were you. Back at the end of the 80's Reform elected Deb Gray as their first sitting MP, in a by-election.The other parties REFUSED to allow Reform in on the televised debates! Said that one MP was nowhere near enough to matter. The precedent was set. Don't be surprised if the incumbent parties stick to it! Oh, I won't be surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 (edited) I wouldn't count my chickens, if I were you. Back at the end of the 80's Reform elected Deb Gray as their first sitting MP, in a by-election.The other parties REFUSED to allow Reform in on the televised debates! Said that one MP was nowhere near enough to matter. The precedent was set. Don't be surprised if the incumbent parties stick to it! So if Harper refuses to allow the Greens the same thing his former party was refused would it be accurate to characterize him as being a hypocrite? The slippery slope has been greased. Don't be surprised if the gate to the path of democracy is nudged open another crack or two. Edited August 30, 2008 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 The Green Party is a major party now and has the right to participate. No they aren't. They still have yet to elect a single candidate. No chance that they should even be considered to participate in the debate before the ELECT at least 3 MPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ontario Loyalist Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 No they aren't. They still have yet to elect a single candidate. No chance that they should even be considered to participate in the debate before the ELECT at least 3 MPs. So you just made up this arbitrary criteria, or does it have a rational basis? The fact of the matter is that they are a major party based on their level of organization, support, and performance in the last three or four elections. Virtually every other democracy has a PR electoral system; if Canada had one, they would have elected between 9 and 15 MPs in these last elections. I would be saying the same thing if we were talking about the CAP or neorhino.ca, etc. (just not any Communist parties--these should be illegal for good reason). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 So you just made up this arbitrary criteria, or does it have a rational basis? For some reason I had it in my head that official party status required 3 seats. I now realize I was mistaken, and was actually being too generous. The actual required number of seats is 12. The fact of the matter is that they are a major party based on their level of organization, support, and performance in the last three or four elections. Virtually every other democracy has a PR electoral system; if Canada had one, they would have elected between 9 and 15 MPs in these last elections. If IFs and BUTs were candy and nuts, we'd all have a happy hanukkah. Everyone else has had to elect their members using the existing system. If the Greens really were anything close to the "major party" their supporters keep claiming they are, they'd have the seats. They don't, so they aren't. just not any Communist parties--these should be illegal for good reason Why do you think YOUR favorite party should have status, but someone else's should be illegal? Are you in favor of equal treatment, or just special favors for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Why do you think YOUR favorite party should have status, but someone else's should be illegal? Are you in favor of equal treatment, or just special favors for you? Good point. It's better to have political parties operate in the open than to drive them underground where their activities are secretive and more difficult to observe. Freedom of political association and freedom of speech work hand in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ontario Loyalist Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Everyone else has had to elect their members using the existing system. If the Greens really were anything close to the "major party" their supporters keep claiming they are, they'd have the seats. They don't, so they aren't. The system is prone to allowing regional movements to gain prominance rather than reflection the national will. For that reason we get parties like the Reform Party and Bloc gaining to much influence while excluding parties that have a broader, national agenda. Why do you think YOUR favorite party should have status, but someone else's should be illegal? Are you in favor of equal treatment, or just special favors for you? Who said the Greens are my favourite party? I stated that the same would go for other parties. The exclusion of the Communists is based on the fact that it represents an anti-democratic and authoritarian ideology. We don't allow a Nazi party, yet there is a Communist party even though Communism has caused much more suffering and misery. Certainly even you are aware of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ontario Loyalist Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Good point. It's better to have political parties operate in the open than to drive them underground where their activities are secretive and more difficult to observe. Freedom of political association and freedom of speech work hand in hand. Yeah, whatever. So you're saying that it would be better to have a Nazi Party of Canada, then? I hardly think that there owuld be a mass uprising if the communist parties were not allowed to form. Communists should be reduced to the same level of social outcasts as neo-Nazis, which thankfully are few and obscure thanks to the fact that they don NOT have the right to form official political organizations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capricorn Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 Yeah, whatever. So you're saying that it would be better to have a Nazi Party of Canada, then? Did I say that? No I did not say that. I hardly think that there owuld be a mass uprising if the communist parties were not allowed to form. Communists should be reduced to the same level of social outcasts as neo-Nazis, which thankfully are few and obscure thanks to the fact that they don NOT have the right to form official political organizations. There are presently 16 registered federal parties. http://www.elections.ca/content.asp?sectio...;textonly=false It is Elections Canada that establishes political parties on the basis of their application. If an applicant does meet the criteria set by Parliament and administered by Elections Canada then their application is rejected. That is vastly different from declaring them illegal. As long as the Communist Party of Canada meets Elections' Canada criteria for registration it will continue to function, regardless of how repugnant we find that party's objectives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Posted August 30, 2008 Report Share Posted August 30, 2008 So if Harper refuses to allow the Greens the same thing his former party was refused would it be accurate to characterize him as being a hypocrite?The slippery slope has been greased. Don't be surprised if the gate to the path of democracy is nudged open another crack or two. Sure! And is not "hypocrite" one of the defining traits of being a politician? Still, don't you think it would be more fair to wait and see if Harper does such a thing before you condemn him? You sound like my wife. She gets mad at me for things she thinks I MIGHT do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Sure! And is not "hypocrite" one of the defining traits of being a politician?Still, don't you think it would be more fair to wait and see if Harper does such a thing before you condemn him? You sound like my wife. She gets mad at me for things she thinks I MIGHT do! You're the one who started it. You certainly seem to think the incumbents (all of them I take it) will go with the herd. What you think will happen is one thing but what about your thoughts on what should happen? Do you think Harper should just say mooooo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukin Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 The Green Party is a joke. This may be the only way they get a seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ontario Loyalist Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 Did I say that? No I did not say that. What you said was that it is better to have politics out in the open rather than underground. Why does that apply to Communists, but not Facists? Even Germany allows far right-wing political parties, and they have a much more fertile populace for that kind of stuff. It is Elections Canada that establishes political parties on the basis of their application. If an applicant does meet the criteria set by Parliament and administered by Elections Canada then their application is rejected. That is vastly different from declaring them illegal. As long as the Communist Party of Canada meets Elections' Canada criteria for registration it will continue to function, regardless of how repugnant we find that party's objectives. You mean "does not meet", right? No, I believe that any Nazi-style party would be "illegal" because it would promote hate. But Communists only promote hate against wealthy, successful people which is different I guess, and so they are allowed to exist eventhough Communism has murderd ten times as many people as the Nazis did. That's pretty half-baked any way you look at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maldon_road Posted August 31, 2008 Report Share Posted August 31, 2008 If the Americans can manage an orderly and informative televised debate for candidates for a party's presidential candidacy, then why can't we manage to add one more party to the debate? The Green Party is a major party now and has the right to participate. That's a good point. In some cases there were nine or more candiadtes involved. What makes the Canadian format messy is all the interrupting. Hard to follow when three people are talking at the same time. I've felt for some time that the rules in our debates have to be changed. Now that it looks like it's five players there is even more need to clean it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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