Banning plastic water bottles

[Topaz]

All you hear on the news is about Toronto, London and now Windsor banning the plastic water bottles from their gov't properties. Do you agree with this motion? Most of the reasoning behind it is the landfill is filling up with plastic but there also that its possible that the cities are losing money by people NOT drinking tap water. I have noticed since Walkerton, our water has so much chlorine it in, no one wants to drink it. I also hear a doctor say, that a person takes more chlorine into their body by bathing or showering than drinking.

[M.Dancer]

....but there also that its possible that the cities are losing money by people NOT drinking tap water.

Yeah...that's it....

[Smallc]

All you hear on the news is about Toronto, London and now Windsor banning the plastic water bottles from their gov't properties. Do you agree with this motion? Most of the reasoning behind it is the landfill is filling up with plastic but there also that its possible that the cities are losing money by people NOT drinking tap water. I have noticed since Walkerton, our water has so much chlorine it in, no one wants to drink it. I also hear a doctor say, that a person takes more chlorine into their body by bathing or showering than drinking.

Where do you live? You need an upgrade to your water system so its not so dependent on chlorine.

[GostHacked]

I beleive we need to rethink how we use plastics on the whole. With that , rethink the recyvling programs, and what materials we use to transport goods.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/t...pan-778016.html

Plastic is believed to constitute 90 per cent of all rubbish floating in the oceans. The UN Environment Programme estimated in 2006 that every square mile of ocean contains 46,000 pieces of floating plastic...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?...0/MNT5T1NER.DTL

Charles Moore, the marine researcher at the Algalita Marina Research Foundation in Long Beach who has been studying and publicizing the patch for the past 10 years, said the debris - which he estimates weighs 3 million tons and covers an area twice the size of Texas - is made up mostly of fine plastic chips and is impossible to skim out of the ocean.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=5524886

Bottle caps, soap bottles, laundry baskets and shards of plastic are just a few things that float in the ocean's vastness. Known as the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, the "dump" is composed mainly of plastic, which isn't biodegradable.

Vids

www.vbs.tv/shows/toxic/garbage-island/

Edited August 20, 2008 by GostHacked

[Topaz]

Where do you live? You need an upgrade to your water system so its not so dependent on chlorine.

I live in small town Ontario and they add more chlorine to the water because we draw from the Great Lakes and bateria is higher in the spring and summer than winter. I`ve been told that the best water you can drink is reverse osmosis, which takes out the minerals and contaminants as mercury, copper, chlormine, chlorine and pesticides. You can put one on to your own water system, which I`ve been thinking about. IF the problem is the landfill sites, then manufacturers need recycle their products made of plastic or give refunds.

[Riverwind]

Do you agree with this motion?

Banning bottle water will simply cause the consumption of juice and pop to increase and will provide ZERO environmental benefit.

[M.Dancer]

Banning bottle water will simply cause the consumption of juice and pop to increase and will provide ZERO environmental benefit.

I don't think that necessarily follows....more likely would bottlers look at other containers...recyclable aluminium or tetra paks....

[charter.rights]

All you hear on the news is about Toronto, London and now Windsor banning the plastic water bottles from their gov't properties. Do you agree with this motion? Most of the reasoning behind it is the landfill is filling up with plastic but there also that its possible that the cities are losing money by people NOT drinking tap water. I have noticed since Walkerton, our water has so much chlorine it in, no one wants to drink it. I also hear a doctor say, that a person takes more chlorine into their body by bathing or showering than drinking.

I am an advocate of following California on this one.....

Manufacturers through their retailers should be made responsible for all recycling and excess packaging. When it starts to cost the source more money (and less profits) then they will get smarter with their packaging. In California it reduced landfill waste and recycling by something like 40% when the manufacturers did an about face. That would be 40% less going into our waste collection program, saving tax dollars that could be put to much better use.

[AngusThermopyle]

Further to CR's response I might add that some plastics can not be recycled. I'm not 100% certain but I believe many clear plastics can not be recycled in any meaning full way as they are largely polycarbonates which are non recyclable. As such pulp and metal derived containers would be far better as they have a much higher recycle potential than many plastics.

I do like the idea of using old tires for road surfacing though, I think they've tried it in some parts of Ontario. I'll have to see if I can find any information as to the success and feasibility of expanding this form of usage.

In the same vein, many areas are now switching back to concrete for road surfacing. Although there are some drawbacks to concrete it has far more advantages than asphalt and is considerably more environmentally friendly.

Edited August 20, 2008 by AngusThermopyle

[Riverwind]

I don't think that necessarily follows....more likely would bottlers look at other containers...recyclable aluminium or tetra paks....

I was thinking of the consumer who is buying the bottled water today. If denied that choice that consumer will turn to juice or pop instead of tap water. IOW - the regulations are a nuisence and will not likely change anything.

BTW - I am curious how the bureaucrats will distinguish between "water" and "pop". Are water products with a little bit of flavor but no sugar called "pop". If they are designated as "water" then will the silly bureaucrats come up with regulations on how much has to be added to water before it is designated as pop and therefore excluded from the ban?

The fact that the policy is even being seriously discussed demonstrates a serious lack of critical thinking at city hall...

Edited August 20, 2008 by Riverwind

[M.Dancer]

I was thinking of the consumer who is buying the bottled water today. If denied that choice that consumer will turn to juice or pop instead of tap water. IOW - the regulations are a nuisence and will not likely change anything.

BTW - I am curious how the bureaucrats will distinguish between "water" and "pop". Are water products with a little bit of flavor but no sugar called "pop". If they are designated as "water" then will the silly bureaucrats come up with regulations on how much has to be added to water before it is designated as pop and therefore excluded from the ban?

The fact that the policy is even being seriously discussed demonstrates a serious lack of critical thinking at city hall...

They won't be denied the choice..that's what marketers do...they adapt. Afterall, the mark up on water is in the gazillion percent...they will deliver the goods...if not in plastic in something else....the consumer who wants water won't drink somehing loaded with calories as a replacement....

[Riverwind]

They won't be denied the choice..that's what marketers do...they adapt. Afterall, the mark up on water is in the gazillion percent...they will deliver the goods...if not in plastic in something else....the consumer who wants water won't drink somehing loaded with calories as a replacement....

I doubt a drink company is going to produce product in special containers in order get around a ban that only applies to city property. However, they already have products with are water with a little bit of flavouring - you can bet they will market those instead.

[M.Dancer]

I doubt a drink company is going to produce product in special containers in order get around a ban that only applies to city property. However, they already have products with are water with a little bit of flavouring - you can bet they will market those instead.

I believe the Toronto market os the nation's largest. If the bylaw comes about, which I nhope it does, I bet the disruption will be 10 minutes.

[Riverwind]

I believe the Toronto market os the nation's largest. If the bylaw comes about, which I nhope it does, I bet the disruption will be 10 minutes.

Whatever happens the law will be circumvented quickly and will not accomplish the stated objectives.

[Topaz]

IF you look at some of the water bottles they do say they are "recyclable or refund were applicable" so its up to the cities or municipalities to do just that.

[M.Dancer]

IF you look at some of the water bottles they do say they are "recyclable or refund were applicable" so its up to the cities or municipalities to do just that.

Very hard to recycle something once it has entered the garbage...and that is the problem. The plastic bottle is so ubiquitous that if even 10% go in the garbage it is a huge amount.

Water is sold in clear plastic because 1) it is economical 2) consumers react well to water that they can see.

[White Doors]

composed mainly of plastic, which isn't biodegradable.

One of the biggest myths there are. Of course plastic is biodegradeable. Taking down my Christmas lights this years and them crackign and breaking at the slightest touch told me that.

Some take longer than others, yes - but plastic is very much biodegradeable

[blueblood]

IF you look at some of the water bottles they do say they are "recyclable or refund were applicable" so its up to the cities or municipalities to do just that.

They do that in Saskatchewan, they tack on the levy at purchase and refund the customer when they bring the bottles back.

This shows a failure of the recycling program in Canada. Downloading the labour by making the consumer sort their own garbage is a bad idea. It's much easier to throw it all in the garbage, I'm not getting paid to sort so why should I? In Saskatchewan when you bring your bottles back you get money. You don't really profit from it though, but it's nice to get 50 bucks for hauling in pop bottles.

Case in point, at our municipal landfill they accept recycling of chemical jugs and other sort of things. There is a "dump supervisor" there who just supervises. I figure that's a nice idea, I can bring a load of chem jugs in everytime I go to town. Upon unloading the boxes of jugs, the lazy supervisor has the nerve to tell me to seperate the jugs and boxes, what am I paying high muni taxes for? I am paying for this character to sit at the dump and suntan for minimum wage. Needless to say I just take the boxes and jugs and just burn the damn things in my new fire pit.

If city folks are so obsessed with reducing landfills, roundup all the bums and put them to work sorting garbage for their welfare cheques. Vancouver would be a good place to start.