Quebec group requests French citizenship

[CANADIEN]

Really the iroquian used the same alphabet as France? So Jacques Cartier and France drew the inspiration from natives in it arrival for a name for what was once Quebec and Ontario: Canada.

Fact is, Canada is a word derived and created by the French, period.

From an Iroquoian word, as any good historian knows. Period.

Yeah, sure pal. Keep spinning your british history

As a Franco-Ontarian, I consider it insulting that you claim facts are British.

Actually, you are missing something. Quebec was renamed upper and lower Canada to make way for the Tories (Loyalists to the British crown from the United States) and the newcomers from britain, the britons.

Does not change the fact the first official use of the word Canada was in 1791, and no I didn't forget it, it's not the at the centre of my showing how ignorant you are.

I suggest you read history to see how Quebec/lower Canada felt about that and if they had a say in the matter. Quebec was forced into this Confederation.

This is not a discussion on Quebec's entry in Confederation. It is about the fact Canada as we know it was born in 1867.

So you are calling George Washington, the first president of the United A fucking a liar?

Absolutely not. what i call YOU though is someone who is ignorant and cannot read.

Edited July 19, 2008 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

Buddy, no it isn't. The use of "fell" is all your own.

Some, yes. Doesn't change anything, though.

Yes, history probably will forget about me. Not really of any importance here, though. What matters is that those whom history has not forgot left for us their stories to read. Each is infested with the particular biases of the author, but, like with any other epoch or event, the larger picture of the origins of Canada is best made up of a variety of contemporary takes and later analysys; the more the better. Selectively pick out the pieces you want in order to create a tapestry that looks nothing like what actually happened if you like, but, as Canadien pointed out, to do so it the paramount example of the worst kind of ignorance: willful. You're guaranteed to have history forget you if you keep that up, unless you're remembered as the crazy kook who led les misérables of Quebec in revolution against a non-existant foe.

Now now, his ignorance is no more wilful than leafless'.

[g_bambino]

Now now, his ignorance is no more wilful than leafless'.

No, probably not. But, at least he can keep his biases straight!

[whowhere]

From an Iroquoian word, as any good historian knows. Period.

As a Franco-Ontarian, I consider it insulting that you claim facts are British.

Does not change the fact the first official use of the word Canada was in 1791, and no I didn't

Yeah, I guess France's use of Canada is not official enough for you. Look at the date, 1600's

http://www.uwgb.edu/wisfrench/library/articles/maps/map3.gif

forget it, it's not the at the centre of my showing how ignorant you are.

Your opinions and fabrication of history to suit your propoganda shows you to be the ignorant one.

This is not a discussion on Quebec's entry in Confederation. It is about the fact Canada as we know it was born in 1867.

Just because you pirate a name and use it does not make it valid because you say so. Canada was not born in 1867, it was born in the 1600's and Canada is being celebrated in Quebec this year.

Absolutely not. what i call YOU though is someone who is ignorant and cannot read.

Actually, you are calling George Washington a liar with your continued defiance to retract your garbage stated earlier. George Washington, uses the word "Canadian" to describe those of Canada of Nouvelle France. Deal With it.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/P?mgw:...p/~ammem_z186::

[CANADIEN]

Yeah, I guess France's use of Canada is not official enough for you. Look at the date, 1600's

http://www.uwgb.edu/wisfrench/library/articles/maps/map3.gif

Here's what i said:

Although the word Canada appears in various texts and maps during the 17th and 18th century, it was never used as an official name for New France.

The legal name of the colony was New France. And Canada as it exists today started to exist in 1867. Deal with it.

Your opinions and fabrication of history to suit your propoganda shows you to be the ignorant one.

Just because you pirate a name and use it does not make it valid because you say so.

The word Canada, pirated? :lol: The history of Canada started more than 10000 years ago with the arrival of the First nations. The word Canada, a French rendition of an Iroquoian word, was used in a number of ways, official and non-official, to designate first part of the French colonies in North America, then some of the British colonies in North America, then the country created on July 1, 1867. That's the history, that's the facts. Pirating? Then you would have to admit that Jacques Cartier pirated an Iroquian word when it heard it wrong and got its meaning wrong.

Canada is being celebrated in Quebec this year.

Go say that to the Péquiste. You get it the wrong way. Quebec, the whole of Canada, and even France are celebrating the 400th anniversary of Quebec City.

Actually, you are calling George Washington a liar with your continued defiance to retract your garbage stated earlier. George Washington, uses the word "Canadian" to describe those of Canada of Nouvelle France. Deal With it.

Here's what I wrote.

As for the term Canadien ("Canadian", as it was translated early on in English) (...) The term was not used to describe the French-speaking natives of New France (as opposed to those born in France) until the late 17th century.

Which means that, by the mid-18th century (you know of course 1755 is the mid-18th century, right?) the word Canadiens (in English texts, Canadians) was used when referring to people of French descent born in New France.

Your baseless belief that what I wrote amounts to claiming George Washington was a liar proves I was wrong about you. You are not only ignorant, you are also an imbecile.

[whowhere]

Here's what i said:

The legal name of the colony was New France. And Canada as it exists today started to exist in 1867. Deal with it.

If this what keeps you going with your delusion, you're a class one loser.

The word Canada, pirated? :lol: The history of Canada started more than 10000 years ago with the arrival of the First nations. The word Canada, a French rendition of an Iroquoian word, was used in a number of ways, official and non-official, to designate first part of the French colonies in North America, then some of the British colonies in North America, then the country created on July 1, 1867. That's the history, that's the facts. Pirating? Then you would have to admit that Jacques Cartier pirated an Iroquian word when it heard it wrong and got its meaning wrong.

You are an idiot. The First Nations people do not share the same alphabet as France and they did not speak the same language. Just because you are a British history revisionist and Canadian wanna be is no excuse to propogate your delusions. Sorry pal, Canada was in fact a nation within Nouvelle France. In 1759, Canada fell under British Occupation. In 1774 France initiatiated an effort to retrieve the colony. Hearing? Well considering France was apart of the Ancien Regime of Europe who supposedly ruled by divine authority. The kings and Queens of Europe had some form relationship of relationship with GOD via the Vatican/Pope. Therefore, Jacque Cartier was a walking talking soul using the language of the Country he was a subject of and serving FRANCE! Jacque cartier used his soul and mind to arrive at the word Canada. Those of your thinking know the word you are refering to is actually kanata. So knock yourself out with that word and your delusions!

Go say that to the Péquiste. You get it the wrong way. Quebec, the whole of Canada, and even France are celebrating the 400th anniversary of Quebec City.

Here's what I wrote.

That is Good Quebec and France are both celebrating. Hopefully, these warm feelings will translate into passports from France

Which means that, by the mid-18th century (you know of course 1755 is the mid-18th century, right?) the word Canadiens (in English texts, Canadians) was used when referring to people of French descent born in New France.

Your baseless belief that what I wrote amounts to claiming George Washington was a liar proves I was wrong about you. You are not only ignorant, you are also an imbecile.

Hmmm, 1755 was before the plains of Abraham buddy. Nouvelle France Fell under British occupation in 1759. I know someone as ignorant as you are will have a tough time realising that fact. You sir, are the Imbecile.

[seabee]

May I suggest that you download the exact text of the 1763 Traité de Paris, and then do a word search for the words "Canada", "canadien", "Nouvelle-France", or any synonym or approximation thereof. What exactly was France ceding, in terms used by both parties.

[CANADIEN]

If this what keeps you going with your delusion, you're a class one loser.

Talk about the pot (you) calling the kettle black.

The First Nations people do not share the same alphabet as France and they did not speak the same language.

Which we all know. BTW, Iroquoian First Nations did not have a writing system, and therefore no alphabet.

Just because you are a British history revisionist and Canadian wanna be is no excuse to propogate your delusions

You are more than delusional if you have not got yet to the FACT that I am Canadian, and a French-speaking one at that. Don't worry, I do not believe you are a revisionist - revisionists may view historical facts in a new angle, sometimes arriving at wrong conclusions, but at least they understand a few things about the facts. You don't..

In 1774 France initiatiated an effort to retrieve the colony.

We already know, through the treaty between France and the United States, that France formally renounced any claim to land in North America that was British at the start of the coict. If you want to continue the fiction that France's objective was to get back its lost North American colonies, show the documentary proof.

Hmmm, 1755 was before the plains of Abraham buddy. Nouvelle France Fell under British occupation in 1759. I know someone as ignorant as you are will have a tough time realising that fact. You sir, are the Imbecile.

So, we both know that by the mid-18th century the white inhabitants of New France were known as Canadians. What you lack the capaacity to comprehend is that this does not change another FACT, which is that Canada as it exists today exists since 1867, not before, and that nobody stole that name from anyone.

[seabee]

In 1759, only the city of Québec capitulated, not the entire colony. This occured only a year later, in Montréal. And the treaty of capitulation makes no mention of "Nouvelle-France", only of "Canada".

[CANADIEN]

May I suggest that you download the exact text of the 1763 Traité de Paris, and then do a word search for the words "Canada", "canadien", "Nouvelle-France", or any synonym or approximation thereof. What exactly was France ceding, in terms used by both parties.

Very good idea. The word used is indeed Canada, so there was most definitely at least one example of the word used in a legal sense before 1791. On this one, I was wrong, and I will admit it readily. The word Nouvelle-France was not used, nor was the word Canadiens.

Does not change some fundamental facts. Canada, as it exists today, was created in 1867. Which is not denying or rejecting previous uses and understandings of the word. Or denying that the roots of today's Canada are the lives and experiences of the people who have lived here since more than 10000 years, especially the First Nations and the descendants of the French and British immigrants, both also including people

The word Canada was not hijacked or pirated, its meaning changed overtime. And no matter what term one chooses to use to describe the events of 1759-1760, we are in 2008 and neither Canada or any part of it is under foreign occupation (now, I am sure some would argue this is First Nation land under European occupation, but that's an other issue).

[Leafless]

In 1759, only the city of Québec capitulated, not the entire colony. This occured only a year later, in Montréal. And the treaty of capitulation makes no mention of "Nouvelle-France", only of "Canada".

No one really gives a damn, seabee.

All most Canadians care about is who won Canada and that is all that matters.

[seabee]

The word Canada was not hijacked or pirated, its meaning changed overtime.

This a debate for linguists. Or perhaps even the courts; after all, how often do we hear of teenagers "borrowing" a car for a joy-ride, but are found guilty of stealing.

[whowhere]

(now, I am sure some would argue this is First Nation land under European occupation, but that's an other issue).

Obviously you.

[whowhere]

No one really gives a damn, seabee.

All most Canadians care about is who won Canada and that is all that matters.

Who won Canada? Canada was a British Colony until the British Monarchy became politically irrelevant after World War II.

Canada only became its own country because of world forces not because Canada won some great victory and liberated itself.

[g_bambino]

Who won Canada? Canada was a British Colony until the British Monarchy became politically irrelevant after World War II.

Canada only became its own country because of world forces not because Canada won some great victory and liberated itself.

Wow, Canadien, you're absolutely right! Whoie is as ignorant of facts as Leafless!

[CANADIEN]

Well considering France was apart of the Ancien Regime of Europe who supposedly ruled by divine authority. The kings and Queens of Europe had some form relationship of relationship with GOD via the Vatican/Pope. Therefore, Jacque Cartier was a walking talking soul using the language of the Country he was a subject of and serving FRANCE! Jacque cartier used his soul and mind to arrive at the word Canada. Those of your thinking know the word you are refering to is actually kanata. So knock yourself out with that word and your delusions!

The Relation of Jacques Cartier's second voyage (1535-1536) includes a glossary of words in the Iroquian language used by the inhabitants of Stadacone and Hochelaga, as written down by the narrator using the latin alphabet. One of the entries reads:

Ils appellent une ville Canada (my translation) They call a town Canada

Since, historians have concluded that the origin of the word Canada was most likely a mispronounciation of the Iroquian word Kanata, which means "village'. The original text of Cartier's Relation seems to support that view.

If you want to argue the word comes from the French language and has nothing to do with any Iroquian word, than prove it. People usually do not name places through some sort of inspiration, putting some sounds together out of their brain. They use (sometime innacurately) words used by local inhabitants, names of people or other land they want to honour, words referring to religious symbols or concepts, names of objects or animals they found there or remind them of that place, words that refer to activities taking place there. If Cartier chose the word Canada from the French language, it must have existed before the summer of 1534. When and how was it used then, and what was its meaning.

Edited July 20, 2008 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

Who won Canada? Canada was a British Colony until the British Monarchy became politically irrelevant after World War II.

Canada only became its own country because of world forces not because Canada won some great victory and liberated itself.

Canada ceased to be a British colony in 1931, eight years before World War II.

[whowhere]

Looks like she lost her fight for citizenship

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...a7-8f41438934d8

Jason Magder, Canwest News Service

Published: Saturday, July 12, 2008

MONTREAL - The French consulate in Montreal says Marie Mance Vallée isn't eligible for French citizenship because the land she considers her mother country lost the battle of the Plains of Abraham.

The consulate sent an e-mail in response to a Canwest News Service report Thursday that the Montreal woman, who can trace her ancestors back 400 years to France, was going to try to reclaim her French citizenship.

The e-mail said consular officials would not comment on the subject except to say anyone who lost citizenship because of a treaty or the cessation of territory is not eligible to reclaim their citizenship.

There is hope for some, however. The e-mail went on to say that anyone whose ancestors came from France after the 1763 signing of the Treaty of Paris, in which what was to become Quebec was ceded to the British, could under certain circumstances regain their citizenship.

Ms. Vallée, whose ancestors came to Quebec in the 1650s, said she plans to fight the ruling. She originally requested dual citizenship in 2006, but was turned down because rules then stipulated her family must have resided in France in the last 50 years.

However, a new law says anyone can claim French citizenship as long as they can prove they have ancestors who were born in France, said Christian Neron, a lawyer in Quebec City.

Mr. Neron said he believes Ms. Vallée is the first old-stock Quebecer to request French citizenship because of her colonial links.

"The law is fairly new, so not a lot of people know about it," Mr. Neron said. "But it allows all people with French ancestry to hold electoral cards."

French citizens outside France can participate in presidential elections and can vote for representatives in that country's National Assembly and Senate. There are 2.2 million French citizens outside France, 850,000 of whom are eligible voters.

Ms. Vallée said she doesn't care about voting rights. She just doesn't want to be identified as Canadian.

"As long as Quebec isn't independent, I don't have an identity. I am a Québécois, but that's not an official title."

It's a shame she has been so brain washed to not realize she is more Canadian than she knows.

[whowhere]

If Cartier chose the word Canada from the French language, it must have existed before the summer of 1534. When and how was it used then, and what was its meaning.

Through Inspiration, Cartier created the word. If Canada was in use and documented Elsewhere provide the documentation supporting this. Obviosly, a ruler by the authority of God, love the word so much he used it, to refer to what is now Quebec and Ontario. Canada appears on French Maps and writings. Canadian apears in the documentation of George Washington refering those of Canada.

All Facts buddy.

[CANADIEN]

Looks like she lost her fight for citizenship

http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/s...a7-8f41438934d8

It's a shame she has been so brain washed to not realize she is more Canadian than she knows.

By the sovereignist movement, who insists that Québécois are not Canadians... perhaps to by bigoted people who claim the "Frenchies" are not Canadians.

[whowhere]

Canada ceased to be a British colony in 1931, eight years before World War II.

If you are refering to the statue of westminister it is actually very particular on the path to cease being a British Colony. Sorry pal, Canada failed to meet any of those provisions. I believe some of the provisions were the parliamentary support of 5 countries in the common wealth: Australia, South Africa, and some other ones I forget.

I think Canada should adopt a new animal in place of the beaver to symbolize Canada: the weasel. Because, really in a nutshell that is Canada's character

[whowhere]

By the sovereignist movement, who insists that Québécois are not Canadians... perhaps to by bigoted people who claim the "Frenchies" are not Canadians.

You are likely a 100% right here

[g_bambino]

If you are refering to the statue of westminister it is actually very particular on the path to cease being a British Colony. Sorry pal, Canada failed to meet any of those provisions. I believe some of the provisions were the parliamentary support of 5 countries in the common wealth: Australia, South Africa, and some other ones I forget.

Wrong again! The Statute of Westminster ended the ability of the British parliament to legislate for Canada, unless at Canada's request. That means Canada was legislatively severed from the mother country, which, by all definitions, meant the end of colonial status (though the country was already a Dominion prior to 1931, which accorded it special placement in the Empire). By 1939, Mackenzie King had the King and Queen in Canada, accepting the credentials of the US ambassador, granting Royal Assent to bills in the Senate, reviewing the troops as Commander-in-Chief, and visiting the United States, to demonstrate the country's new status as an independednt kingdom.

Edited July 20, 2008 by g_bambino

[CANADIEN]

Through Inspiration, Cartier created the word. If Canada was in use and documented Elsewhere provide the documentation supporting this. Obviosly, a ruler by the authority of God, love the word so much he used it, to refer to what is now Quebec and Ontario. Canada appears on French Maps and writings. Canadian apears in the documentation of George Washington refering those of Canada.

All Facts buddy.

The glossary in Cartier's second Relation is sufficient proof of how he came with the word. If he took it elsewhere, prove it. He sure did not take it in French maps drawn after him, in texts written in French or any other languages after him, or in George Washington's correspondence; these prove uses of the word, not how Cartier came with it.

Edited July 20, 2008 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

If you hate Canada so much, do yourself and all of us a favour and go.

I'd be tempted to suggest an animal as your mascot, but I don't feel like unsulting the donkey.

Edited July 20, 2008 by CANADIEN