Quebec group requests French citizenship

[Leafless]

Talking to yourself again, I see.

I see you are talking to yourself again.

University graduate?

Must of been from the 'U of zero'.

[whowhere]

As someone who is ancestorally both English (Grandfather direct from England) and French of Canada. I know this area quite profoundly. After reading through the various posts It is quite obvious most of you know shit about what you are talking about or know shit about history.

I wholeheartedly agree with the quote starting this thread. If France wants to sponsor passports for those of Quebec/Canadian/French Ancestory bring it Forward. Where do I get one. Her aspirations are fitting with the Historical Evolution of Canada. Getting such a passport would open up travel and Employment opportunities anywhere in the EU. Honestly, I do not see why those of french ancestry should be held hostage to the hate and the ignorant. They should not be deprived the path to a happy and fullfulling life in Quebec/France or elsewhere in the EU.

Fact is, if it were not for the original "Canada" there would not be an Independent United States. France funded and provided the muscle to bring forward an independent United States. Read History! I know how those on this Forum Roll so I expect relentless attacks. That's ok, I will enlighten the ignorant.

[CANADIEN]

Feel free to take any foreign citizenship you want. I am content with being a Canadian.

[whowhere]

Feel free to take any foreign citizenship you want. I am content with being a Canadian.

With the cultural immolation of Canada it would be a good idea to preserve Canadian history. Canada recognizes multiple passports. If France wants to issue passports to those of French/Canadian/Quebec ancestory bring it forward. France is not a stand alone nation anymore. Its apart of the European Union. Access to France and the EU for travel and employment is an asset.

Anyone who goes to Europe for Employment opportunites will have have the resources to put money back into Quebec. This money could be in the form of a vacation property or second homes - whatever.

The fact is, Modern day Canada, and Modern Day Canadians are an ignorant lot. At this juncture of history there is no need to hold the French of Quebec hostage. If France can bring solace to this evolutionary struggle, they ought to do it.

[CANADIEN]

With the cultural immolation of Canada it would be a good idea to preserve Canadian history. Canada recognizes multiple passports. If France wants to issue passports to those of French/Canadian/Quebec ancestory bring it forward. France is not a stand alone nation anymore. Its apart of the European Union. Access to France and the EU for travel and employment is an asset.

Anyone who goes to Europe for Employment opportunites will have have the resources to put money back into Quebec. This money could be in the form of a vacation property or second homes - whatever.

The fact is, Modern day Canada, and Modern Day Canadians are an ignorant lot. At this juncture of history there is no need to hold the French of Quebec hostage. If France can bring solace to this evolutionary struggle, they ought to do it.

If Canada is not good enough for your ignorant mind, prend la porte.

[whowhere]

If Canada is not good enough for your ignorant mind, prend la porte.

Actually, those of Canada is not good enough for Canada. Canada has increased it's population by 50% since 1980 through immigration. Canada's population in 1980 was 20 million, today it's around 34 million. With the Conservative government's policies on Foreign work permits and allowing foreign students of post secondary programs to work in Canada after they graduate will further dilute what it means to be "of" Canada.

For the French of Canada to be held hostage to the age old hate of English Canada is far to long overdue. It is within France's means to provide this leg up to those of Quebec and they should.

[CANADIEN]

Actually, those of Canada is not good enough for Canada. Canada has increased it's population by 50% since 1980 through immigration. Canada's population in 1980 was 20 million, today it's around 34 million. With the Conservative government's policies on Foreign work permits and allowing foreign students of post secondary programs to work in Canada after they graduate will further dilute what it means to be "of" Canada.

For the French of Canada to be held hostage to the age old hate of English Canada is far to long overdue. It is within France's means to provide this leg up to those of Quebec and they should.

You feel like an hostage? Free yourself and free us of you by the same token. We don't need anti-immigrant bigoted whiners.

[whowhere]

You feel like an hostage? Free yourself and free us of you by the same token. We don't need anti-immigrant bigoted whiners.

With a handle like Canadien its hard to place your origins but your opinions speak and scream of an anglo english briton tory subject.

[CANADIEN]

With a handle like Canadien its hard to place your origins but your opinions speak and scream of an anglo english briton tory subject.

Go ask leafless if he shares your opinion about me being "anglo". A thing is sure, with your hatred and the way you don't get it, you two should become fast pals.

[whowhere]

Go ask leafless if he shares your opinion about me being "anglo". A thing is sure, with your hatred and the way you don't get it, you two should become fast pals.

my hatred??? I speak facts and I know what it means to struggle with identity and who and what you are. Quebec has a history, a history of occupation. Quebec and those of Quebec have endured english propoganda every step of the way. Those of Quebec have been on the short of end of the stick on political forces that have shaped this Country. The Fact is, Canada is in a period of immolation, and I doubt this immolation is going to reverse itself. If France can extend a passport to shield those of Quebec this immolation they should.

[whowhere]

When minority cultures cannot accept the primary culture that is responsible for the creation of Canada namely the White, English speaking culture of the Anglosphere, then the country is in trouble.

I suggest you get your facts straight donkey.

Nouvelle France consisted of Canada, Acadia, and Louisiana. Noevelle France was established/discovered in 1604 (Quebec is celebrating 400 years) you may have heard about that. In 1759 Nouvelle France fell under British Control. The Acadians of Acadia (formerly Nova Scotia) were all deported to Louisiana. Canada and those of Canada who were actually known as Canadians (not Canadiens) fell under British occupation. Canada in its origins, is French, not English.

[M.Dancer]

Canada's population in 1980 was 20 million, .....

Factually incorrect.

Our pop was around 20 million in 1967...remember the song Caaa naaa daaa ?

Population 1967 - 20,378,000

Population 1980 - 24,516,278

Poulation 2008 - 33,291,868

Anyone can say they speak facts....keep in mind though facts come in two varieties....true and false....And I have just shown which kind you deal in.

[CANADIEN]

my hatred??? I speak facts and I know what it means to struggle with identity and who and what you are. Quebec has a history, a history of occupation. Quebec and those of Quebec have endured english propoganda every step of the way. Those of Quebec have been on the short of end of the stick on political forces that have shaped this Country. The Fact is, Canada is in a period of immolation, and I doubt this immolation is going to reverse itself. If France can extend a passport to shield those of Quebec this immolation they should.

Yes... your hatred... I've heard all the whining... Quebec is being occupied... Quebec is dominating Canada... Quebecers are at the short end of the stick... Quebecers are ruling us...

This is 2008, time to join the 21st century. But before, feel free to entertain all of us by telling me who I.

Edited July 19, 2008 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

I suggest you get your facts straight donkey.

Nouvelle France consisted of Canada, Acadia, and Louisiana. Noevelle France was established/discovered in 1604 (Quebec is celebrating 400 years) you may have heard about that. In 1759 Nouvelle France fell under British Control. The Acadians of Acadia (formerly Nova Scotia) were all deported to Louisiana. Canada and those of Canada who were actually known as Canadians (not Canadiens) fell under British occupation. Canada in its origins, is French, not English.

WOW, someone who as ignorant of facts as leafless. Watching you two debate should be fun.

Actually, the British deported no Acadians to Lousiana. They were for the most part deported to British American colonies, with smaller numbers to the Caribbeans and France. As Lousiana was then (1755) a French colony, iiiiit would have made little sense for the British authorities to deport them there.

The first Acadians in Lousiana settled there about eight years after the deportation. The larger group arrived there in the mid-1780's and consisted of people deported to France or who had taken refuge there.

As for Canada, its primary roots are French, British and Aboriginal... the tree has since grown with contributions frrom people from all around the world.

[whowhere]

Factually incorrect.

Our pop was around 20 million in 1967...remember the song Caaa naaa daaa ?

Population 1967 - 20,378,000

Population 1980 - 24,516,278

Poulation 2008 - 33,291,868

Anyone can say they speak facts....keep in mind though facts come in two varieties....true and false....And I have just shown which kind you deal in.

quote your source

[whowhere]

WOW, someone who as ignorant of facts as leafless. Watching you two debate should be fun.

Actually, the British deported no Acadians to Lousiana. They were for the most part deported to British American colonies, with smaller numbers to the Caribbeans and France. As Lousiana was then (1755) a French colony, iiiiit would have made little sense for the British authorities to deport them there.

They did, I suggest read history further.

The first Acadians in Lousiana settled there about eight years after the deportation. The larger group arrived there in the mid-1780's and consisted of people deported to France or who had taken refuge there.

So what, Louisiana eventually was sold to the United States by Napoleon.

As for Canada, its primary roots are French, British and Aboriginal... the tree has since grown with contributions frrom people from all around the world.

Sure buddy, you keep telling yourself that. Canada was a French Colony up until 1759 when it fell under british occupation. In a move to get Canada back in 1774 King Louis 14 or 15 silently financed and provided arms to free the United States from British Rule. The original Canadians (some of their decendents are now identifying themselves as quebecois) fought along side the Americans for four years to secure American Independence. For various reasons Canada was not freed from British Occupation. However, the Marquise Lafayette of France with the knowledge of King Louis the 14 or 15 spearheaded a final compaign to free Canada from British rule. This campaign failed because the Unites States didn't care enough anymore because they got their independence recognized.

The Canadians, The quebecois have suffered this occupation for hundreds of years. If France wants to ease the Canadains/Quebecois's yoke by offering a passport. DO IT.

[whowhere]

George Washington Papers at the Library of Congress, 1741-1799: Series 2 Letterbooks

George Washington to Robert Jackson, August 2, 1755

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/P?mgw:...p/~ammem_z186::

Here is George Washington talking how he was defeated in battle by the "Canadians" in 1755. Not Canadien, but Canadians.

[CANADIEN]

They did, I suggest read history further.

They didn't. I suggest you read, period.

Sure buddy, you keep telling yourself that.

With good reasons.

In a move to get Canada back in 1774 King Louis 14 or 15 silently financed and provided arms to free the United States from British Rule.

Interesting that most historians consider that the French policy at the time of the American Revolution sought U.S. independence while being content with leaving Canada in British hands, so that both the UK and the U.S. would keep each other busy... and with France not having to shoulder the expenses of governing Canada.

The original Canadians (some of their decendents are now identifying themselves as quebecois) fought along side the Americans for four years to secure American Independence.

The Americans invaded the Province of Quebec in the fall of 1775, then retreated in the spring of 1776. During the American occupation, most of the local population remained neutral, and there was no mass movement to join any of the warring camps during the rest of the war, which btw ended in 1783.

For various reasons Canada was not freed from British Occupation. However, the Marquise Lafayette of France with the knowledge of King Louis the 14 or 15(...)

In was Louis 16.

(...) spearheaded a final compaign to free Canada from British rule. This campaign failed because the Unites States didn't care enough anymore because they got their independence recognized.

The Marquis de Lafayette served from his arrival in the United States (against official orders from the French government) in 1777 to 1781 as a volunteer in the American Army and as such was placed in command of an American aborted plan for a second invasion of Canada in 1778. He served as a General in the American Army until 1781, As for the alleged French plans for an attack on Canada... the French knew well the last country the Americans wanted on their northern border was them.

The Canadians, The quebecois have suffered this occupation for hundreds of years. If France wants to ease the Canadains/Quebecois's yoke by offering a passport. DO IT.

This is 2008. The only yoke is the one you and other wear, the yoke of prejudice and ignorance.

[CANADIEN]

George Washington Papers at the Library of Congress, 1741-1799: Series 2 Letterbooks

George Washington to Robert Jackson, August 2, 1755

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/P?mgw:...p/~ammem_z186::

Here is George Washington talking how he was defeated in battle by the "Canadians" in 1755. Not Canadien, but Canadians.

The worse ignorance is the one displayed by those who get tidbits of facts then draw conclusions contrary to the facts as a whole.

The word "Canada" first appears in the writings of Jacques Cartier, and designated an area ("le Royaume de Canada") centered around Stadaconé (on the current site of Québec City); ironically, the word was based on an iroquian word meaning "village".

Although the word Canada appears in various texts and maps during the 17th and 18th century, it was never used as an official name for New France. The first official use of the word Canada as an official name was made by the... British, in 1791, when they divided the Province of Quebec (another British creation) into Upper and Lower Canada. The word Canada was later retained as the name when Lower and Upper Canada were merged in 1841, and adopted as the name of the union of three British colonies in 1867.

Canada, as it exists today, was born on July 1, 1867, not in 1604 or 1608, even though its roots come in part from New France.

As for the term Canadien ("Canadian", as it was translated early on in English), was first used to designate the aboriginal inhabitant of the Saint-Lawrence and Great Lake areas. Some early 17th century authors even limited to the term to nomadic nations. The term was not used to describe the French-speaking natives of New France (as opposed to those born in France) until the late 17th century. It is only in the 19th century that the word Canadien began to designate first the inhabitants of Upper and Lower Canada, then those of the whole of the country of Canada.

[whowhere]

Interesting that most historians consider that the French policy at the time of the American Revolution sought U.S. independence while being content with leaving Canada in British hands, so that both the UK and the U.S. would keep each other busy... and with France not having to shoulder the expenses of governing Canada.

well, you are certainly a history spin doctor. I think the "events" speak for themselves. People see what they want to see. The fact is France bankrupted itself in its support to bring an independent United States. France Tried to recover the cost through the French people which gave rise to Napoleon. Part of the bargain for France's help to the United States was the return of Canada. Unfortunately, it didn't happen. The fallout of this for the Canadians was/is the struggle with the immolation.

The Americans invaded the Province of Quebec in the fall of 1775, then retreated in the spring of 1776. During the American occupation, most of the local population remained neutral, and there was no mass movement to join any of the warring camps during the rest of the war, which btw ended in 1783.

The American's had to demonstrate to France they were making an effort to get Canada back.

In was Louis 16.

The Marquis de Lafayette served from his arrival in the United States (against official orders from the French government) in 1777 to 1781 as a volunteer in the American Army and as such was placed in command of an American aborted plan for a second invasion of Canada in 1778. He served as a General in the American Army until 1781, As for the alleged French plans for an attack on Canada... the French knew well the last country the Americans wanted on their northern border was them.

That's a funny statement, considering Nouvelle France and the United States coexisted for more than 100 years as neighbours. If France was instrumental in the United States freedom why would the United States be concerned with them at their border? Your logic here makes no sense.

It is of historical record King Louis XV wanted Canada back, Marquis de lefayette of France tried to make that happen but the Americans were not keen on making that happen for whatever reason. The fact is the intent from France was there and the United States failed to live up to its side of the bargain.

This is 2008. The only yoke is the one you and other wear, the yoke of prejudice and ignorance.

The only one who is ignorant is you. Why should you begrudge someone from getting a hand from France. If France wants to provide passports, awesome. When do I get mine.

[g_bambino]

Sure buddy, you keep telling yourself that. Canada was a French Colony up until 1759 when it fell under british occupation.

The Canadians, The quebecois have suffered this occupation for hundreds of years. If France wants to ease the Canadains/Quebecois's yoke by offering a passport. DO IT.

If Canada fell, why is it still here? Or, is my passport lying to me? Well, obviously not; this is because Canada did not "fall" under British "occupation," it was protected and expanded under the British Crown. In fact, in the negotiations leading up to the Treaty of Paris, Louis Quinze's ministers advised him to leave the colony with Britain, in favour of Guadaloupe. And it was done. Given the failure of France to care much about them, and the guarantee by the Crown of their civil law and Catholic religion (Royal Proclamation, Quebec Act, anyone?), most Quebecois did not see cause in joining the American Revolution. It's a sad thing to consider that some people have become so caught up in the revised history of FLQ, nationalist, pure laine propaganda that the mother country which once saw more value in a Caribbean island than in New France has now become the comforting refuge of those supposedly oppressed by the institutions under which they actually flourished. So desperate are they to do some petulant bird-flipping at the country to which they belong, like a juvenile being all grown up by smoking a cigarette and telling mom where to get off, they've twisted themselves all backwards with lies. Thank god not everyone's bought the self-serving drivel of the Parti and Bloc.

[whowhere]

The worse ignorance is the one displayed by those who get tidbits of facts then draw conclusions contrary to the facts as a whole.

The word "Canada" first appears in the writings of Jacques Cartier, and designated an area ("le Royaume de Canada") centered around Stadaconé (on the current site of Québec City); ironically, the word was based on an iroquian word meaning "village".

Really the iroquian used the same alphabet as France? So Jacques Cartier and France drew the inspiration from natives in it arrival for a name for what was once Quebec and Ontario: Canada.

Fact is, Canada is a word derived and created by the French, period.

Although the word Canada appears in various texts and maps during the 17th and 18th century, it was never used as an official name for New France. The first official use of the word Canada as an official name was made by the... British, in 1791, when they divided the Province of Quebec (another British creation) into Upper and Lower Canada.

Yeah, sure pal. Keep spinning your british history

The word Canada was later retained as the name when Lower and Upper Canada were merged in 1841, and adopted as the name of the union of three British colonies in 1867.

Actually, you are missing something. Quebec was renamed upper and lower Canada to make way for the Tories (Loyalists to the British crown from the United States) and the newcomers from britain, the britons.

Canada, as it exists today, was born on July 1, 1867, not in 1604 or 1608, even though its roots come in part from New France.

I suggest you read history to see how Quebec/lower Canada felt about that and if they had a say in the matter. Quebec was forced into this Confederation. Sorry bud, the original Canada existed since 1604/1608 and fell under occupation in 1759. Canada existed in that form for 150 years!!

As for the term Canadien ("Canadian", as it was translated early on in English), was first used to designate the aboriginal inhabitant of the Saint-Lawrence and Great Lake areas. Some early 17th century authors even limited to the term to nomadic nations. The term was not used to describe the French-speaking natives of New France (as opposed to those born in France) until the late 17th century. It is only in the 19th century that the word Canadien began to designate first the inhabitants of Upper and Lower Canada, then those of the whole of the country of Canada.

So you are calling George Washington, the first president of the United A fucking a liar? Wow, you got some balls buddy. Isn't the library of Congress great? The documents speak for themselves. I suggest you go to that link and type in Canada and Canadian and read what comes up. Don't rely on the transcription, click on the image to see the words as they were handwritten. In this case, the hand of George Washington.

History, and the future Historians will look at the documents surrounding the United States independence and they will arrive at logical conclusions based on the facts. Spins things however you want it changes nothing.

[whowhere]

If Canada fell, why is it still here? Or, is my passport lying to me? Well, obviously not; this is because Canada did not "fall" under British "occupation," it was protected and expanded under the British Crown. In fact, in the negotiations leading up to the Treaty of Paris, Louis Quinze's ministers advised him to leave the colony with Britain, in favour of Guadaloupe. And it was done. Given the failure of France to care much about them, and the guarantee by the Crown of their civil law and Catholic religion (Royal Proclamation, Quebec Act, anyone?), most Quebecois did not see cause in joining the American Revolution. It's a sad thing to consider that some people have become so caught up in the revised history of FLQ, nationalist, pure laine propaganda that the mother country which once saw more value in a Caribbean island than in New France has now become the comforting refuge of those supposedly oppressed by the institutions under which they actually flourished. So desperate are they to do some petulant bird-flipping at the country to which they belong, like a juvenile being all grown up by smoking a cigarette and telling mom where to get off, they've twisted themselves all backwards with lies. Thank god not everyone's bought the self-serving drivel of the Parti and Bloc.

Buddy, it is a fact Canada fell under british occupation in 1759. It is fact, some Canadians fought with the Americans for independence. This fact is proven in the documented writings of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, etc, etc. It is unfortunate that more Canadians didn't take up arms but that goes really to the sales job being done on them. The Canadians fought alongside the Americans for 4 years, only to be disappointed in the end. The canadians have been subjected to British brain washing ever since, and now this brain washing is being done by wanna be canadians. It's ok, say what you want, think what you want, the library of congress isn't going away anytime soon. The truth is documented. History will not remember you, but it will remember those documents written by the founders of the United States. Unbiased Historians will draw their conclusions based on logical thinking and facts, not your delusions because history will forget about you.

[CANADIEN]

well, you are certainly a history spin doctor. I think the "events" speak for themselves. People see what they want to see.

Too bad that for the most part what you see has little resemblance with facts.

The fact is France bankrupted itself in its support to bring an independent United States. France Tried to recover the cost through the French people which gave rise to Napoleon.

For once, you got something right.

Part of the bargain for France's help to the United States was the return of Canada. Unfortunately, it didn't happen. The fallout of this for the Canadians was/is the struggle with the immolation.

Under the terms of Article 5 of the Treaty of Alliance between the United States and France (1778), (original French text) France was acknowledging that Bermuda and British posessions in North America would, if conquered, become the possession of the United States. Under article 6, France formally renounced any claim on Bermuda or any land in North America that was British before 1763 or had become British in 1763, that meant all of former New France except Lousiana.

The Americans were quite happy to obtain France's help, but they actually didn't trust them. Many Americans still had the memory of French and First Nations raids on frontier settlement, and more than a few of those who hesitated between the Rebolutionary and Loyalist camps would have joined the British if they had thought the French wanted to set shop in Montreal, Detroit and Niagara. The French government knew it, and that an independant United States served their interests far better than regaining a New France that would have fell in the next war.

The American's had to demonstrate to France they were making an effort to get Canada back.

The Americans were trying to prevent the British from using Montreal and Quebec City as a base for an invasion of the Hudson Valley. Trying to get the local population to join the revolution was a side objective.

That's a funny statement, considering Nouvelle France and the United States coexisted for more than 100 years as neighbours.

I will not dwell on the fact there was no United States until 1776, and there was not even a joined government structure for the British colonies (there was a failed attempt in 1755, in response to a military threat from... New France).

Before the English conquered New York/New Amsterdam iin 1663, the English and French colonies pretty much co-existed. After that... the play of alliances with First Nations, economic rivalries and European conflitcs led to 4 declared war between the French and English colonies. In between, they were fighting indrectly through their Aboriginal allies. Co-existence it wasn't.

It is of historical record King Louis XV wanted Canada back

it is of historical record that the French court and noted influencial people like Voltaire were more interested, after 1759, in keeping the Caribbean islands rather than New France. The French foreign Minister, Choiseul, was predicting with glee in his private journal in 1763 that the British colonies would revolt before long and that France would then be able to do what they were doing with New France... keeping the British in check - and have someone else do it for them.

It is also of historical record that Louis XV died in 1774, at the beginning of the American Revolution.

Marquis de lefayette of France tried to make that happen

It is of historical record that La Fayette served as a general in the U.S. army.

The only one who is ignorant is you.

Talking to yourself?

Why should you begrudge someone from getting a hand from France. If France wants to provide passports, awesome. When do I get mine.

I would not begrudge you from getting any passport you want, on the contrary I want you out. I do begrudge you from showing ignorance and prejudice.

Edited July 19, 2008 by CANADIEN

[g_bambino]

Buddy, it is a fact Canada fell under british occupation in 1759.

Buddy, no it isn't. The use of "fell" is all your own.

It is fact, some Canadians fought with the Americans for independence.

Some, yes. Doesn't change anything, though.

The canadians have been subjected to British brain washing ever since, and now this brain washing is being done by wanna be canadians. It's ok, say what you want, think what you want, the library of congress isn't going away anytime soon. The truth is documented. History will not remember you, but it will remember those documents written by the founders of the United States. Unbiased Historians will draw their conclusions based on logical thinking and facts, not your delusions because history will forget about you.

Yes, history probably will forget about me. Not really of any importance here, though. What matters is that those whom history has not forgot left for us their stories to read. Each is infested with the particular biases of the author, but, like with any other epoch or event, the larger picture of the origins of Canada is best made up of a variety of contemporary takes and later analysys; the more the better. Selectively pick out the pieces you want in order to create a tapestry that looks nothing like what actually happened if you like, but, as Canadien pointed out, to do so it the paramount example of the worst kind of ignorance: willful. You're guaranteed to have history forget you if you keep that up, unless you're remembered as the crazy kook who led les misérables of Quebec in revolution against a non-existant foe.